Please let us know the outcome and good luck.

Ok so my mom heard back from him and this is what he had to say:

" Good morning. I got your message.any board are.water proof.now two ways to do water proof:

1-applying water proof on the grout or applying water proof mat on board before tile installation,in that case is not necessary remove durock that is water resistant!.let me know Wight way you want to go!"

Thoughts on this response?

My thoughts? He is not even a high school graduate and can’t read or understand the industry standard technical manuals that govern his trade. https://www.tcnatile.com/products-and-services/publications/218-english-publications/188-handbook.html He does not understand waterproofing. He doesn’t even understand the proper sequencing of his trade. He should be thrown off of the job site.

Again, is he a Licensed Contractor in the State of Florida? With that response, I’m sure that he is not. FL has extensive education requirements and testing to obtain that license. If he is not licensed, he can not enforce a contract. There is no standing. Only someone legally licensed can enter into a home improvement and remodeling contract. He has misrepresented himself and his skills.

https://www.myfloridalicense.com/wl11.asp

http://sunshinestatenews.com/story/florida-supreme-court-contractors-unlicensed-no-relief-contract-violations

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/sfl-rebresources29jan29-story.html 

"Thoughts on this response?"

Complete and utter B******T............................................

If he was giving you the option of waterproofing before tile, why didn’t he DO it!? Why is he only offering it after you asked? So much wrong here...

His nonsense reply only reinforces his nonsense work. Total incompetent.

just for the record, the first niche photo that you posted made a clean edge using bullnose tile. bullnose isn't a trim, it's a variant of the field tile that has a sloped edge so that the underlying ceramic isn't exposed. it's the most common solution to outside edges and niches. however, a lot of fancy modern tile doesn't come in regular squares and bullnoses, so then you need different solutions. raw edges can look ok with porcelain tile, where the color goes all the way through, or you could use a white schlyuter (sp!) edging, which basically just forms the corner (and extends under the tile on both adjacent sides), and is otherwise mostly invisible/inoffensive. obviously you have larger issues with workmanship here, but I wanted to put in this info for when you get back to design questions.

Sorry your family is dealing with this stress while renovating or building. Possibly there is a language barrier to some extent. Questioning his formal education as someone did above is not helpful and unnecessary. Now, clearly he is not familiar with the industry standards. It is difficult to understand what method he is suggesting for waterproofing the walls from his comment. Do be aware that there are multiple options for waterproofing the walls, and most importantly the corners, curb, niche (and seat if applicable). As for the grout, my guess is he is suggesting that sealing the grout is an option for waterproofing. It is not. The greatest concern regarding waterproofing is his plan for the pan membrane. I would be asking about this. The shower pan membrane should wrap up the walls a minimum of 3" above shower curb. This is one reason the pan build occurs before the wall tile is installed. It is also critical that his wall board joints, including corners are treated and taped with approved products. Based on the photos this did not happen. Meet with him onsite and ask him about these issues. You mentioned that he was recommended by friends. Did he do showers for them? Wet areas do require a higher level of expertise. Good luck with you project and hopes this helps.

Dragonfly you are right there is definitely a language barrier.

*Update*

I talked to my mom again after she spoke with him today. He sent her a picture of this and said it's "good for water proof on top of durock"

She also said he said he is going to remove the tiles and mud the walls.

Does any of that sound correct? At this point I don't trust him but obviously it's not up to me and all I can do is share this info with them.

Listen to Dragonfly.

It should be up to you since you're the one garnering the info for your parents.

Durock CAN be used w/o a waterproofing membrane. (but the correct fasteners need to be used and the seams need to be taped with a specific cement board, alkali resistant tape). Do you know if there is a vapor barrier BEHIND the cement board (tar paper, plastic??) If yes, then no Redgard, or you'll end up w/a mold sandwich. It's one or the other, not both.

Durock membrane (same as the REdgard stuff)

see how this shower floor is already done before tiling?

and since I'm sure your tile guy doesn't know this, take your cement tiles and seal them. now. before he installs. use a penetrating sealer. (511 or Aquamix are fine) follow directions. only seal the tops. prob 2-3 times. tell him to dunk in water before he sets the tile in the mortar.

Up above, you asked "Could this gray stuff sticking out (see picture below) be the waterproofing or is it something that would go on top of that Durock?" That looks like a pan liner to me. My understanding (and the John Bridge forums are a much better resource than I am) is that a properly attached pan liner (presloped and run up the walls a foot or so) is compatible with using redgard on the durock walls.

I think you are being very proactive and mature. It's hard to post on this forum and receive bad news that you have to deal with. I've been there. Try not to get overwhelmed or get into arguments with your parents. You guys are a team and you guys are the homeowners and customers, so stick together and be on the same page. There is probably a bit of a storm and some stress about to hit if you guys decide to fire the contractor, some arguments and such. But you are on the right side of things and it will work out in the end. But it won't work out if you stay with this contractor in my opinon, because he is incompetent and it's not your job to train him.

You can download the manufacture's instructions for any materials he is using or planning to use and read them for yourself. You can also pay about $40 and buy a downloadable version of the TCNA tile manual. If you do that, you need to read the intro section and the shower chapters. You can skip all the other chapters such as swimming pools and other things. Reading this manual was very helpful to me when I realized something was wrong, but I wasn't sure what it was.

But even if you do read everything published about tile and waterproofing, it sounds like this person is really incompetent and needs to go. If that's the case, maybe someone on this forum can recommend a real pro in your area to take over this project. That worked for me when I had a similar problem 18 months ago. I asked about the waterproofing, and they quit saying I was too hard to please (because I wanted waterproofing). A pro on this forum referred me to a real pro in my area who took over the project and did everything perfectly.

I'm sorry you are going through this. A long time from now, when you are building or remodeling something in your own home, you will already be more informed about this stuff than the average homeowner. Maybe that's the silver lining of going through this now.

If your parents have questions or need some support about the contract side of things, firing them, not paying anymore and those kinds of things, they can certainly post here, or you could post for them.

Hang in there.

None of the "advice" here will substitute for on-site consult by a qualified tile installer. Your are getting some truths, some half truths and some bad advice. You shouldn't be relying on an on-line advice forum at this point. You learned there are issues and now's the time to seek a professional consult. You should not be the one that has to research standards, manufacturer instructions, and then instruct your installer. You should of course not hesitate to educate yourself, but you can't learn what a professional knows from training, and many years of experience. There is more than one approved method for some aspects of a shower build. You want to rely on an expert locally. Finding a qualified installer can be challenging in certain areas of the country, because, like FL, there is an abundance of unqualified labor. The complaint in our industry is that most of the unqualified labor will undercut the qualified professionals with low pricing, and then the consumer often gets poor results, which is bad for everyone. Remember that, as I said previously, there are different skill and experience requirements for various types of tile jobs. Check out NTCA members to start. https://cdn.ymaws.com/www.tile-assn.com/resource/resmgr/pdf_files/Residential_Tile_Installer.pdf and:

https://www.tile-assn.com/search/custom.asp?id=2759 That being said, I know that there are some good installers that are not NTCA members but you should use the same guidelines to vet their experience. Hope that helps.

*Update*

I want to thank you all again for your help and input. Unfortunately my parents are continuing to let him do the bathroom (*puts hands up*) despite all this info I've shared with them. I guess all I can do is sit back and watch it unfold and say I told you so if something goes majorly wrong. I'll keep y'all updated on the progress.

He's "on alert" now, and might just possibly seek guidance from others and approach this differently. It happens with the younger setters. Sometimes they realize they are over their head and ask for help. Wishing you and your parents success.

You could print out manufactures' instructions and pages from the TCNA and just hand them to him. If there is a language barrier, then maybe print them in his language, if available.

Take lots of pictures every day, from all angles from ceiling to floor, and take pictures of all the materials and buckets of stuff that the contractor leaves sitting around. So if there is a problem in the future, your parents will have an easier time identifying the source of the leak and make the repair needs easier to identify.

So if there is a problem in the future, your parents will have an easier time identifying the source of the leak and make the repair needs easier to identify.

Do you mean if or WHEN?

You did the best you could in trying to help them. Did you ask them why they want to continue with him when he is clearly not waterproofing the shower?

Maybe show them this thread?

Cpartist they said they he's doing a lot of other work around the house (already painted outside, pressured cleaned) repaired the ceilings (parts had to be torn out to fix the ac; don't worry they had a legit AC guy), floated the floor in the main living areas because it wasn't level, now he has to do drywall on the walls, paint the interior, install the floor tile that will be everywhere expect bathrooms and laundry room. Basically they don't want him to quit the whole job, idk how likely that is though seeing as he said this is his only job right now. My mom told him multiple times if he doesn't feel confident doing the bathrooms they can get someone else but apparently he keeps telling her he can do it (to which I told her of course he is he doesn't wanna lose the money). The things I listed above that he's done he seemed competent and there hasn't been any issues but like everyone's saying there's a lot of huge red flags with this bathroom situation. Like I mentioned earlier the 3rd bathroom that's being converted to a full is going to be done by the same people doing the kitchen (a reputable local kitchen and bathroom remodeling firm) so I will be very interested to compare how the process goes for that bathroom compared to this one.

One warning sign that stood out in your first pictures was the lack of taping and seaming between the durock sheets. Please note the difference compared to the pictures posted by Beth H. Why else do you think that the durock has those depressions along the edges? The very fact that he thought it was okay to leave them bare is enough to throw doubt on his skills.

Here is a video that stresses the use of proper fasteners and shows seaming on durock and other substrates.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaCFA5reK9E

So, your parents found this jack-of-all-trades handyman who is saving them a bunch of money and taking care of a lot of jobs that DIYers can often handle. It's good to have someone like that available for various tasks. Unfortunately, the damage he will cause in this shower and what it will cost to repair will be more than what they are saving.

Maybe call the city anonymously and see if the handiman has pulled the required permits for the bath redo. If not, the city will probably come out, inspect and stop the job because it is not properly done

I would also be leery of him putting down floor tile in the rest of the house since that too requires extra skill

I know for a fact he's not pulling permits apparently my parents don't think it's necessary (again I obviously disagree).

Here's a new picture. I'm just gonna take a
wild guess that this isn't correct either.

And yes I'm very worried about the floor tile too especially since it's extra long/wide almost $7 a Sq ft from Porcelanosa. They said you need to use a special thing to install it (I forget what it's called) but my mom asked him about that and he said he knows how to do it (which again who knows if he actually does).

Did he install the shower pan first? If not, this is still completely wrong. And one coat is not enough! And I still don't see that he used tape for the seams.

Like I said, if he didn't pull permits, call the city. Even if your parents don't intend to sell, someday you may need to and that could be an issue.

Classic renovation mistake! Spending a lot on materials then cheaping out on the installation. Seams are now badly and unevenly mudded. What is on the back sides of the shower? This is where moisture and mold is most likely to show up.

New danger: who picked out and installed the shower light? If not properly done to code, you could be electrocuted during a shower.

Unfortunately, in some parts of the US, concern about future buyers looking for permits is not needed. Where I live, we did not pull any permits to redo a bath and the city is not looking to find people doing things without permits. No one would even consider whether permits were pulled on previous work done in the house. It is just our customs. Can't say why, it just IS. So, your parents may get away with having slipshod work done if it does not show obvious signs of leaking before they sell.

whoa,,,those walls w/the seaming! How does he plan on laying out those small tiles so they're all flat and level? the glopped on mortar on the seams should have been smoothed over so there's no 'speed bump'. pay attention when he starts tiling. I guarantee he's going to end up w/lippage on those tiles. with overhead lighting you'll see shadows from where they don't sit flush w/the wall.

Use a Schluter strip for the tile application. It is designed for just this purpose of not having a matching trim tile. Follow the green arrow in the photo below. The tile selected for my client did not have a trim, we used a matte white (they come in many colors and finishes) and it give a very clean edge.

Best of luck with your installation, and most important, ENJOY that shower when its complete.

PS, please overlook the crooked shower door, it slipped a couple hours after installation, this photo was a snapshot taken to show the contractor. It has now been adjusted and is in fantastic working order.

"see how this shower floor is already done before tiling?"

Done WRONG at that.

DO NOT use this mess of a failure in progress as an example of correct shower building its all wrong too..

following .... REALLY, gosh no words....

Latest update on this hot mess of a shower

I feel awful for your parents. People don't know what they don't know. The mess this is would seriously make me question everything else he is doing in their house.

what about the curb??? besides being all wrong the way it was built, the least he could have done was tape the seams and waterproof it. lord knows he can't make it any worse by doing that. If he tiles that curb the way it is, your parents will have a disaster down the road.

is the floor of the shower even sloped? Put a level on it. ditto the curb. it will need to be sloped towards the shower for water to drain (see pic for what happens when water doesn't drain)

this entire thing is so bad. (love how he painted the red around the tile in place,,,smh) I'm sorry for you. Your parents sound like hardheads for not listening to your advice. out of curiosity, what is this guy charging them to do this shower?

Beth, good idea about the level, I will definitely do. My mom may be coming around she mentioned today that maybe they should just get permits and someone licensed to do it so *fingers crossed* we'll see if they actually do it. That picture with the mold...yikes...I definitely do not want that to happen. If they end up letting him complete this shower how soon do you think I would see mold and or leaks?

can't predict that. it won't happen overnight, but it will happen soon enough. honestly? it's a complete tear out. did he just Redgard the cement slab floor in the shower? nothing else is down there? Who IS this guy doing the tiling? is he charging them thousands?

To my knowledge there's nothing else down there. My stepdad claims the guy did put in the shower pan (but my stepdad is no construction expert) so idk if there actually is one. We didn't order a shower pan or anything so if there is something there it's something the guy did himself. If you look at my second post there's a picture of the shower floor. I believe nothing else was added to that besides the redguard. Not sure if you can tell from that picture what the shower floor consists of if anything. The shower drain is already installed so I would assume whatever he did as far as building the shower floor is all that he's doing for it.

He just put redguard on the floor without putting in the proper shower pan first. And how is it he didn't even take out the tile he had finished? And still not taping the seams?

My stepdad claims the guy did put in the shower pan (but my stepdad is no construction expert)

No there is not.

I'm sorry, but it's a complete redo.

It's about to be a complete demo and redo too!

cpartist I couldn't believe it when I saw he had put the redguard on without taking off the other tiles first. Talk about a literal red flag!

He or she is over there head here. At least they appear to listen to reason which is on your side. Shower pans are one of the biggest sources of failure and you should go to H Depot send $150 and get yourself a prefabbed white shower pan. He can cut out the lower boards and install.

Doin this at least will assure no pan issues which is where all your water is. like it or not a lot of shower walls are done exactly like this everyday. Probably on slab and an exterior wall which would help.

Buy the shower pan and be done. The walls are waterproofed. At least you will be mostly water tight. Lots wrong but at least get the basics right. Honestly I see this and hear your parents just not caring and why bother? Why even redo it if its being done in this manner? What was achieved?

That shower will never be finished and will never look right they don't have the forethought to plan ahead which is needed. Shower doors? Valve rough in? etc etc etc IT WILL NEVER BE FINISHED! SORRY!

With the amount of trouble I see people having with the bottom of showers ...why not use a shower try so simple !

The future of your project has but one outcome.

Shower light! For your own safety, I'm going to ask again. Who installed the shower light and was it approved for wet locations? Electrocution is no joke!

Looking at original pictures, notice that the cement board ends before the curb when it should extend over the curb width or even past. This is an easy to see thing to point out to your mom.

Catlady999 the light over the shower was installed by a licensed electrician who was doing a bunch of other work in the house but thank you for bringing that up!

*Update* good news: my mom said she's going to tell the guy to stop working in the bathroom area and just focus on getting the other things (painting, drywall) so hopefully this means we'll be getting a real professional who knows what they're doing!

Oh so glad to hear. Kmy please keep us updated.

Any updates this summer?

Hey everyone, sorry its taken so long for me to update. We ended up using someone who my parents had used in the past but completely slipped their mind. He is awesome and takes great pride in his work. Here are some photos of the completed bathroom. Thank you all for all of your advice, if it weren't for you guys they would have most likely continued on using the first guy and who knows where we would be now.

Looks beautiful! I love the floor tile and the stars!!

I'm assuming the new guy rebuilt the shower and waterproofed correctly?

I will say that is one gorgeous looking bathroom and I'm glad to know they listened to you.

And thank you so much for the update. I know I'm thrilled when in the long run things work out for the best and we get to see the results.

I’m so glad it worked out. You made beautiful choices for all the materials and finishes. You’ve probably learned more about waterproofing and how to handle a bad contractor than most people ever will, and at an age decades before I learned that stuff. Congrats!