Wow we could possibly be in trouble! I don't know if we can ever reconcile making money with being environmentally friendly. And it might be too late in many instances.

This is a problem that was recognized a few years ago and as predicted, it would become more apparent as it worsened. It is happening, not only in Canada, but in many places where there is permafrost. This includes Siberia. Thawing of permafrost can cause structural problems for man made structures especially for those whose footings were anchored in permafrost. When built, that anchorage was considered permanent, but now, is not. This is an infrastructure problem; Environmentalist had a larger concern: the potential release of methane, a heat trapping gas. Their fear: as more permafrost melts and release methane, the more global warming results. If this process reached a tipping point, a runaway condition results and global warming accelerates uncontrollable until something alters the process. Wiping out humans and many forms of life might occur until the system turns around.

This is only one view. Other studies have detected long term cycles of heating and cooling that were beyond the control of humans or other life forms. One variable is the output of our sun. Geologists think that glaciers covered parts of North American several times. One of those icings covered the State of Illinois as far south as Mattoon, IL and is blamed for flattening that landscape. The last glacier covering much of Wisconsin was only about 10,000 to 11,000 year ago. That was a short time in geologic terms. It barely receded in time for early Native Americans to arrive. The western part of Wisconsin was not covered by this last glacier, the part described as coulee country. It is possible that we are observing a climate change that is driven by actions more massive than suspected. This is not to say that humans are not the cause; It may be that humans are part of the cause, but not the complete cause.

I've been trying to avoid reading about all the horrid climate change related news, but they are getting harder and harder to avoid. I wish there was some good news somewhere, but it seems to be all bad.

The melting is happening more rapidly than would have been expected prior to the influences at the large levels as we've done in the last couple of hundred years of major industrial operations of mankind.

We've been using coal for a number of centuries, but not at the recent industrial levels.

We've been using petroleum for what? 125 years or so ... and leaving a million tons or so of residue in the skies.

Suppose half of the change is of natural cause ... if so, and we accept that our future is at risk, then we'll have to put forth double the clean-up effort to have a successful clean up.

That estimate was for discussion - it's my belief that way over half of the warming is due to man's activities.

ole joyful

Coal, that complex natural resource declared dead by many politicians, is booming.

The US may have reduced coal powered energy here, but we're shipping record tons to Asia and elsewhere.

King Coal

Without doing a lot of research about it...doesn't the earth heat up then freeze again depending on what global disaster happens. An asteroid hits the earth...instant cold temperatures and glaciers...then it will warm and warm until it happens again. I also believe that the deforestation of the earth is speeding it along...causing heating and extreme weather conditions. I believe I read they cut 18 million acres of forest each year...yeah, how it that sustainable?

Admitting that it is happening at least means you can plan what you are going to do about populations of people since you cant stop it if it is a natural effect but pretending it isn't happening at all leaves you heading for the apocalypse without a boat to row.

Sci-fi has always been full of stories of aliens and pathogens being released with melting. Apparently while no aliens so far there have been old forms of pathogens and bacteria. How about 32,000 yrs old?

The naturally generated cycles take tens and a hundred thousand years to go through a cycle, but recent experience is that this has speeded up and so drastically that, lacking major changes in our operations, to cut down heavily on the generation of carbon dioxide, and especially methane, which is several times as harmful as carbon dioxide, it may become impossible for humankind to survive.

Some are talking of mankind destroying the earth, but we have much more complex requirements for survival than do some others of the inhabitants of the earth, so a number of such species would/(will?) survive us. If we go, quite likely the rats and cockroaches, among remnants of other species, may well survive.

On the other hand, I rather facetiously said a while ago that, at a conference of the plants and animals dealing with their concerns about survival, it was said that humankind was becoming an endangered species, and a number of participants, quoting how many species have disappeared in the past few centuries, said, "Good - the sooner that those humans disappear, the better, for their depradations have caused many of our species' disappearance." .

ole joyful

Sorry Joyful but historians will tell you that we have had at least two ice ages in the past 600 years. One was the "Little Ice Age" during the reign of Louis XIV another was the "Year Without a Summer" in 1816. Both occurred prior to the existence of many things blamed for global temperature changes.

!816 cold was caused buy the eruption of Mt Tambora-particulates in the air.

The little ice age wasn't a real one and is not considered to have been global. I know they take the information they have on it into consideration in judging where we are in the present actual global situation.

the idea that what is happening now is temporary like the former swings from about 1300 to 1800's doesn't actually help the people living through it. You still have to deal with it as a reality regardless.

And yet...

there are folks who do not believe that Human Induced Climate Change is a fact.

There are people that know that the climate change occurs naturally and happened long before there were enough people on the earth to cause anything.

Raye, we do not need to argue the science. Just consider that accepting that it is happening is where we need to meet, why isn't as important as accepting it is happening. If you accept it is happening then you start planning for the consequences. At the moment we are not doing even that. Adding to a natural cycle is only going to make it worse if that is what is really going on.