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dave_in_nova

Question on node theory and blooming of citrus seedlings.

6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago

I have a Clem-Yuz hybrid grown from seed that had to grow about 7 feet before it finally bloomed last season (2018) at the very tip-top of the plant. No fruit came of it.

THIS season (2019), the plant bloomed again, however this time there were many, many more blooms and many blooming much further down on the plant -- even as low as 2 feet above soil level (granted that some of the lower branches are quite long and are arching downward). I am aware of 'citrus node theory' that says a citrus seedling must grow a certain number of nodes (where leaf meets stem) before the growth becomes mature enough to bloom and bear, but I also wonder if something else comes into play. Could it be that there must be a 'critical mass' of mature growth before some of the tree is able to bloom? Maybe this lower growth had already attained maturity (required node count), but didn't 'kick in' until more of the tree had become mature -- like maybe some hormone was given off in adequate concentration? I wish citrus professor Dr. Manners were still monitoring these conversations to comment.

I am thinking of reducing the height of my plant by a couple feet next winter. I want to see how reducing the amount of mature growth at the top affects blooming of the lower branches -- will they continue to bloom again? -- or will they cease until the plant has grown back its critical mass of mature growth?


So for those who have grown seedlings to fruit bearing size, I welcome your comments and observations.



Comments (21)

  • 6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    I would leave it alone. How old is it. It looks great. Do you have to take it in for winter. Is it a 2-2 or 3-3 tree. Trees grow from seed are so much more attractive than grafted trees.

    Steve

  • 6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    It's a 2-2. Maybe 7-8 years old. Can't remember now when I planted the seed. I will probably trim it back a bit in the winter.


  • 6 years ago

    What does 2-2 and 3-3 mean?

  • 6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    2-2 is an earlier ripening variety of the clem-yuz (September/October)

    3-3 ripens November / December. to late to ripen for zones 7-8

    Steve

  • 6 years ago

    My seed grown key lime showed the same thing. blooming on very low branches once it reached maturity.

  • 6 years ago

    2-2 is apparently better tasting too.


  • 6 years ago

    I keep track of my trees node count. My kumquat flowered around node 80 while my tangerine lost thorns but no flowers at node 110

  • 6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    This probably flowered at around nodes #200-250 last summer. This summer, branches further down -- at maybe around node 50 -- began to bloom. I'm thrilled it has done this, so I can chop it back a bit!


  • 6 years ago

    How do you count the nodes?

    Is there an easy way? And what if you don't have 1 central leader?

    I have a lemon seedling, but I cut the top of because it didn't fit in his space anymore, so there is no central leader growing any further, but the branches keep growing

    Thank you!

  • 6 years ago

    Each branch has its own node count. At the base you count thorns and then leaves up the stem and out till you reach the end of each branch,.

  • 6 years ago

    Another first to bloom! This is my Keraji mandarin seedling. Blooming about 6 or 7 feet up the tree. Entire tree is around 9 feet tall. I'll let it bloom once more next year before I trim it back. Want to give the tree enough time to realize it's mature. LOL! I think this tree is about 6 years old, give or take a year. I also started cuttings and one graft from the top-most growth last summer, so it's nice to know they are not far from being mature. Although if the entire original plant 'gets the message' that it's mature, I may just hack back and keep it. It's quite healthy. Just needs a bigger pot and some root pruning.



    Here's the whole 'seedling'....


  • 6 years ago

    Is there a reputable resource that gives node counts for specific trees? I like sharing that information to people online.

  • 6 years ago

    No. There appears to be no kind of records. Meiwa kumquat trees started at about 50-60 nodes and my Fukushu tree started in the 70-80 node count. My sweetlee tangerines lost their thorns at about 110 nodes. The larger the fruit the more nodes are needed.

    Steve

  • 6 years ago

    If there is nothing to back it up, then where did this theory come from?

  • 6 years ago

    Here on the citrus forum and experimentation.

  • 6 years ago

    We are the pioneers of the future.

  • 6 years ago

    As an odd (I belive in node count FYI) occurence I took a cutting off a mature grafted meyer lemon (that momma bloomed herself to death) and it is in a pot 2 years now without the slightest inclination to bloom.......doesn't it know its node count from the now dead momma?

  • 6 years ago

    It should

  • last year

    I know I'm a few years behind here lo I have a question about seed grown Citrus, I have this Lemon Sapling that's 2 years going on 3 in January/February, it hasn' t flowered yet, I topped it 2-3 weeks after it sprouted. It's from a Lisbon or Eureka lemon, the pic is from last winter, I'm wondering how much longer it will take before it flowers? If there's anything I can do to help encourage, I feed Jack's Citrus Fed 20--10-20 every week or 2 depending how often I have to water them, follow the directions on the Citrus Food any suggestions are greatly appreciated


  • last year
    last modified: last year

    Jenelle Vallee , lemon seedlings generally take anywhere from 5 to 10 years or more to bloom, depending on environment and length of growing season. They usually grow very vertical and must get quite tall. If you trim it before it blooms, it will just keep putting out juvenile growth (not able to bloom).

    So you may have to allow your lemon to get 6 to 9 feet high or more to achieve 'mature growth'. This is another reason why most people grow grafted trees, or trees grown from mature-wood cuttings. They bloom at a MUCH smaller size and much sooner! Fortunately, you're not growing an orange or grapefruit, from seed as those can take 15 years or more!

    My Meyer lemon from a rooted cutting: