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katebg

symmetrical or asymmetrical, and other advice on kitchen.

6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago

Hi everyone,

I need advice on several things for our kitchen.

It’s going to be a modern flat panneled handless kitchen, with matte light gray bottom cabinets, a white countertop, and probably white top cabinets.

I keep going back and forth between two-three things.

One is wether to put first the fridge, then oven/microwave, and then top/bottom cabinets untill the wall, or fridge, bottom/top cabinets, then oven/microwave. The first option would be asymmetrical, but the sink would be closer to the window, and I think that the top cabinets would look good white. The second option looks more symmetrical, the oven is away from the fridge, and I wouldn’t have to move the sink that much from where it is now, but then I’m afraid the top white cabinets don’t look as good. I’ve attached one kitchen with the first, and one kitchen with the second layout, so you get the idea of what I’m talking about. They are pretty much exactly the same size as mine, just different finishes from what I want.

The other thing I’m debating is wether to get a freestanding fridge or an incased one, and if freestanding should I go with the side-by-side one that will take more room and reduce counterspace (but give me storage space for a growing family), or a narrower combined fridge with the freezer at the bottom.

I will have a rather large peninsula with an induction cooktop on it, so actually that will mostly be my counterspace.

Now that I think about it, in a kitchen/dining room that is 10.5x19.5 does a breakfast bar at the peninsula even make sense, or should I use it as storage, which we are always lacking?

Thanks for all your ideas, thoughts!




Comments (34)

  • PRO
    6 years ago

    Nothing in nature is symmetrical so I don't mind asymmetry. But to answer your questions we need the layout of your space or some pictures... even asymmetry had to be done the right way...

    katebg thanked Debbi Washburn
  • 6 years ago

    I don't like either of the two pictures that are referenced here. Both of them look not all that functional. My biggest gripe is the location of the sink, stove and vent hood (or lack thereof?!) The cooktop would make much more sense if it wasn't in the island, and that would also simplify installing a hood that actually works.


    I don't have strong feelings about symmetric vs. asymmetric placement. I don't think anybody will really notice one way or another once the kitchen is actually installed. But I am not even sure what I am looking at in the second picture. The left part of the picture looks confusing. Is this a reflection in a mirror? A pull-out pantry? A right-angle wall?


    I like the combination of gray and white. But I'd be hesitant to have too much white. I probably wouldn't pick a white countertop. It's difficult to match different shades of white, and lots of white can look really stark. Pick a contrasting color for countertop and/or backsplash.


    And as Debbi says, without posting some drawings and photos, we won't really be able to give you much useful advice.

    katebg thanked M
  • 6 years ago

    The layout and function of the kitchen is more important than symmetry.

    The only symmetrical thing in my kitchen is the 1 cabinet and drawers on either side of the range and hood, but the whole section isn't actually centered in the kitchen, with the island or the skylight above. You would need to stand in one exact spot to even notice the slight asymmetry of the whole space.

    katebg thanked chispa
  • PRO
    6 years ago

    Symmetrical or asymmetrical? What you want to work towards is FUNCTIONAL!!!! It trumps everything else in a kitchen!

    katebg thanked Anglophilia
  • 6 years ago

    If you have a cooktop on your peninsula and have a dining table nearby, skip the stools and use the space for storage. Function is what matters so the Questions you’ve asked need to be answered with that in mind.

    katebg thanked calidesign
  • 6 years ago

    Why don't you make a big sq island. Come in thru that doorway and you can walk around all 4 sides. Put sink on island and range w hood against wall. Easier and cheaper. Hood up thru roof , unless it exists now is too much to do for small kitchen . Plan should be smarter and get an island.

    katebg thanked herbflavor
  • 6 years ago

    I've never understood the desire for counter seating when a table (or space for one) is in the same space, just steps away.

    Practical over symmetry, as Anglophilia and others have said. It is good to have a landing space between the fridge and the oven -- but I don't really understand where the sink is to be. You want to be able to move items easily from fridge, to sink, to counter, then to cooktop or oven.

    katebg thanked raee_gw zone 5b-6a Ohio
  • 6 years ago

    Have you ever had a side by side fridge? Some like them, but many find them annoying. We had one in a condo we rented for a year while we reno'd our home. I hated that thing with a passion.

    katebg thanked daisychain Zn3b
  • 6 years ago

    Try for functionality first and then go for visual balance. I believe in balance over symmetry just about every time.

    Symmetry is, as stated above, overrated. Anything in a three dimensional space will only look symmetrical from one single viewpoint. You move a couple of inches to the side and that symmetry is gone.

    People get lured to symmetry when looking at birds-eye plans of their space. So It's really important to know, that the pleasing symmetry seen from above does NOT really translate into a a 3D live room at all.


    I really got a lesson regarding symmetry when we remodeled our masterbath.

    We have a 6ft vanity made from Ikea kitchen cabinets with two sinks with two skylights above. The location of the skylights was determined by the roof rafters, so couldn't be changed. So I tried various combinations of cabinets, to get the sinks to be centered under the skylights. I came very close, but that gave me a combination of cabinet sizes that I thought would not at all be practical. So, sadly, I gave up on having things lined up, and went for the most practical cabinet placement.

    Boy, am I ever glad I did. Turns out, we enter the bathroom from the side, so we never actually see the vanity centered, as that's where the shower is located. And as if by magic, when entering and walking to the sinks, we see the sinks just about lined up with the skylights.

    Ask your KD to create a 3D plan that your can enter virtually and move around. That's the best way to see what looks pleasing to the eye and what does not.


    Good luck with your project.




    katebg thanked User
  • 6 years ago

    Wow, thanks everyone for your comments, I’m really glad I asked! Here are some drawings that I made, it might be easier to understand what I mean.

    The hood would be hanging above the built in cooktop, but in the current kitchen I don’t even have one, and in my last place I never used it anyway, the noise bothers me.


    I have also considered putting the cooktop on the wall side, however I’m afraid I would have very little room to prep unless I do it on the peninsula.


  • 6 years ago




  • 6 years ago

    I hear your concerns about prep space. Depending on budget, you could consider buying a workstation-style sink. Dino Rachiele probably builds the most functional ones that you can find. It allows you to use your sink as your primary prep space. Not only does that save space, it also vastly simplifies clean up. Spend an hour on the rachiele.com website. Even if you don't end up buying one of their sinks, you'll learn a lot about what to look for in a functional sink.

    IMHO, it's fine to do prep at the sink and to have the stove behind you. I personally really like having a pot filler, but opinions differ on that. Not everybody finds it useful

    katebg thanked M
  • 6 years ago

    Obviously not an expert at this :) , I am using a free online program and am terrible at it, but it gives some idea of what I want.


    The size of the room is 10.5x19.5, the peninsula would be 78’x38’ . Between the peninsula and the sink side there are 42’, and window on one side and a sliding door on the other.


    I agree about putting practicality above looks/symmetry.


    As for the colors, I haven‘t decided that yet (I decide, then next week I decide again).

  • 6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago


    Oh, and here’s pic of my current kitchen that came with the house we purchased.

    The door you see will be replaced with a sliding door so as not to interfere with the passage between peninsula and kitchen. A - 10.5, C - 19.5, B - 5.2.

  • 6 years ago

    Here's a job we did where there was a tight situation. The oven ended up going below the cook top which is under the window but was originally going to be left of the fridge (which is all the way to the right) but we put a pantry in that spot Instead.






    katebg thanked jdesign_gw
  • 6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    This looks beautiful! Which materials did you use? I love the nice, modern, clean lines, and the cool colors paired with the warm wood.

    I suppose the fridge is on the far right, a built in one, or is that just a very big pantry?

    Originally I was going to have it U shaped, too, but then I would have to replace the window because it is lower than the desired countertop hight. I am quite tall, and cook a lot, so I want a kitchen that is a bit taller. I also don’t want two level countertops.

  • 6 years ago

    I think you should put the cooktop on the wall side so you can install a proper overhead vent to catch all the steam, odors and aerosolized grease, etc.


    Then put the sink on the peninsula.


    You don't need seating at the peninsula with the table and chairs so nearby.


    Symmetry isn't important, function is important.


    Also, having the sink next to the window isn't important either. If you are going to have a dishwasher, you are not going to be spending hours washing dishes, so you don't need to have a window to look out of to distract you, you will really be spending very little time at the sink.


    As for the type of refrigerator, there is not that much difference in space between them all, so unless you live so far away from the stores that you rarely go shopping, I would get a regular refrigerator with either a bottom freezer or top freezer, whichever you prefer, and give yourself more counter space, which if you do much cooking, you certainly need. The regular refrigerator also usually costs less than a side-by-side, too, and a built-in (what you call the encased, just costs more money and doesn't add any functionality at all.

    katebg thanked loobab
  • 6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Thanx loobab, you have some valid points.

    I agree with no seating at the peninsula, and you are right about the dishwasher, too. I guess the sink really doesn’t need to be close to the window.

    I have considered putting the sink in the peninsula, but I’m afraid plumbing would significantly increase the cost, and there would always be dirty dishes (at least cups and plates) around it.

    The hood is not all that important really as I will most likely just keep cooking without it, I can’t stand the humm.

    I cook a lot, mostly from scratch, and like to keep homemade sauces, fish, veggies and even stock in the freezer, but my current one is tiny and ice builds up in it, so I hate it. I thought having all that extra freezer space would be nice. I’ll have to think about that a bit more. Maybe get an additional build in freezer under a counter.

  • 6 years ago

    daisychain01 no, I’ve never owned one. My in-laws have one and I like it, especially the fact that it has shelves as well as drawers in the freezer, and the ice dispenser (hubby really wants that). Why did you hate yours? I would be very grateful to hear the cons.

  • 6 years ago

    katebg-

    Well, if you can't move the cooktop, you can't. Is there any way you can put a vent over it that will vent to the outside?

    I don't know if you are in the U.S. or not, but there are some quite large top or bottom freezer models available. The advantage of the top or bottom freezers over the side by side is that you have more horizontal space in the refrigerator area for long trays like baking or catering trays.

    If you live in a house, you can get a separate freezer for the basement or the garage. A lot of people do that. That is a lot cheaper than having one built into the kitchen.

    I also think having a wine cooler in the kitchen is a ridiculous waste of money. Why on earth does one family need to cool 50 bottles of wine at a time? (I know you didn't mention getting one, I am just mentioning it.)

    katebg thanked loobab
  • 6 years ago

    We live in Croatia (I’m Croatian, hubby is American), so although there is a lot to choose from, the fridges are generally not as big as in the US.

    We live in a semi-detached house without a garage or basement, so that is a bit of a bummer. However, we do have an attic that could house a freezer, it will require me walking two flights of stairs but it could definitely work. Thanx for helping me figure that problem out!

    As far as wine coolers, I agree they are generally useless but they do look cool, so if someone has money and room to spare then why not (I’ve seen double ovens and pot fillers in kitchens where only the microwave was being used).

  • 6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    There are hoods that are much quieter (and more effective) than what you would get with the cheapest models.

    I never used my hood before the remodel either, but then I bought a better quality hood, and I have decided that putting up with a little noise from the hood is better than having to frequently wash a thin layer of grease off everything in the kitchen and dining room.

    SInce you are in Croatia, are the Bora downdraft systems available, and do they have a good reputation for effectiveness? That might be a solution for a peninsula cooktop rather than no hood at all.

    katebg thanked raee_gw zone 5b-6a Ohio
  • 6 years ago

    Maybe I was just stuck with cheap hoods in the rentals, you are right.

    They do have the downdrafts, I was looking at those as they would serve as a barrier.

  • 6 years ago

    In the US, houses are typically built with wood frames. Shifting the window and moving the plumbing for the sink are all tasks that only take about one day of labor. So, that absolutely would be something worthwhile considering. On the other hand, if you're dealing with brick walls and concrete slabs, you might be right and that's not a good option

  • 6 years ago

    katebg yes fridge is far right (36") with pantry (18") to the left of it. Materials are "Fenix" super matte with uppers of acid etched back painted glass in a custom light grey color. (These were custom cabinets but we do offer these same materials for upgrading Ikea kitchen systems).

  • 6 years ago

    M, my outside walls are almost 16’ of brick, and the base is a concrete slab, so any plumbing repositioning (as well as electricity) is a lot of work, you are right. However, since I will be putting on solid wood flooring it is not impossible to do, but another reason I was advised against it was that with too many corners there was a risk it might clog more often (and plumbers are not cheap!).

  • 6 years ago

    jdesign_gw, do you mind me asking which fridge you got and how you got it built in? I have not seen built in fridges that wide (max 70cm) here.

    I love fenix, and the fact that it can be repaired with heat is very interesting, plus it feels nice to the touch (and so does “seta”). I have heard different opinions on its performances though, as some sellers here advise against using it with induction countertops and built in ovens because it might peel (others say it’s nonsense). Being a relatively new material, I don’t know anyone who has it in their kitchen.

    Ideally I would get matte lacquered mdf cabinets, but another option is fenix or seta or pet on mdf. What would you suggest?

  • 6 years ago

    I don't remember if fridge was Miele or Sub-zero. Have done both the same way. It was panel-ready and we incorporated a vertical aluminum channel(custom colored the match) so no visible handles were used. I really only use Fenix so can't speak to the other materials. It's all about getting quality edges to me so we only use the latest O-edge technology for the most seamless look. "repair with heat" yes to a point. The material is very durable but a really deep scratch can't be fixed like that. I don't know what all your options and quality of workmenship are there. When we do matte painted we use a very high quality moisture resistant form of MDF and we don't use lacquer we use 2K-poly from Italy.

    katebg thanked jdesign_gw
  • 6 years ago

    Thanks a lot for the explanations! I’m really glad I got info from a professional who is doing such beautiful kitchens!

  • 6 years ago

    No problem. Here ( Los Angekes) I have at least a dozen options for matte material. Most are coming from Europe. They are all pretty good. I'm sure you will find something where you are that will work.

  • 6 years ago

    I am not the Op but I appreciate all the responses regarding symmetry. It is easy to get hung up on that and was probably driving myself crazy with that aspect of kitchen design. A good reminder that form always has to follow function.

    katebg thanked waverly6
  • 6 years ago

    waverly6 I can relate, sometimes I get so focused on one thing that I forget to look at the bigger picture. That is why these comments are so valuable to me, they give me perspective and help me get out of the loop I’m stuck in.

  • 6 years ago

    i got so carried away reading the answers that I forgot to attempt to answer any of the original questions. In a small space I would definitely go for storage over a breakfast bar.

    katebg thanked waverly6
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