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Why is it so hard to find a real tile pro?

AJCN
May 11, 2019
last modified: May 11, 2019

??? Please could real pros weigh in here?

I‘ll wait a bit before I post my searching-for-a-pro manifesto.

Comments (33)

  • PRO
    GreenDesigns

    It’s not. You just have to be willing to pay, and willing to wait.


    https://www.ceramictilefoundation.org/homeowners-guide-to-hiring-qualified-tile-installer

    AJCN thanked GreenDesigns
  • AJCN

    It is. It's hard to find a professional. I’ve done both. Paid and waited. Lied to. Screwed and still paid $$$..

  • Helen

    Not a pro but it's increasingly difficult to get skilled tradespeople at all. They exist but if they are good, they are expensive.

    I was lucky in my recent remodel in that my designer and GC had good people and since the GC keeps them busy, they are available to him. I would imagine it would be almost impossible to hire any of them as an individual client.

    In my experience, the children of tradespeople don't tend to become trades people themselves as they have white collar aspirations for their children. It was true in my family as my father and uncles were skilled blue collar workers - my father started as an apprentice coppersmith and went on to build air craft carriers. But all the kids in my generation (cousins and siblings) were sent to college.

    AJCN thanked Helen
  • drsaj
    Like my husband always says, only 10% of people are really good at their job. Sad, isn't it?
  • PRO
    GN Builders L.L.C

    It's not hard to find a Pro, it's harder to find a consumer who respects someones profession, puts quality work ahead of a price and doesn't mind paying for skilled labor, workmanship and experience.









  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC

    "In my experience, the children of tradespeople don't tend to become trades people themselves as they have white collar aspirations for their children."


    Helen:


    You are correct. The skilled trades shortage will not be ended by higher wages and better benefits although that will help. It will be ended by the end of "always get three bids" and more importantly, the return of social status to the trades.


    When your daughter is engaged to the guy installing your tile, he has a job with a future, can support her and their future family in the way to which she's become accustomed, and you're happy about it, the trades labor shortage will be over.


    But no, everyone thinks their daughter only deserves a doctor or lawyer. Did you see massive unemployment among dentists and chiropractors during the last recession? Yeah, me neither.

  • PRO
    T.F.W.

    "It's not hard to find a Pro, it's harder to find a consumer who respects someones profession, puts quality work ahead of a price and doesn't mind paying for skilled labor, workmanship and experience."

    Well said @GN. applies to these strange times we are in ten fold.


  • Helen

    @Joseph - I'll ignore the sexism since my parents raised their daughters to BE lawyers and doctors and not marry one. :-) - Please don't take this seriously as the joke among my girl friends who are doctors/lawers is that their mother should have taught them to MARRY a lawyer/doctor and not be one :-).


    While still treading carefully in the sticky terrain of political correctness, all of the people who worked on my recent gut remodel were fabulous and highly skilled. Also when the inevitable glitch occurred, they corrected it and/or found a solution so that level of worry and tsuris on my end was not exacerbated.


    And they were all immigrants. Given how difficult it is to find skilled trades people and artisans, I have no idea how any construction would occur without talented people coming to the US and adding their skills and productivity to the economy. My GC is from El Salvador - his father was a builder there. His daughter recently started to shadow him and is going to go into the business with him.


    I probably paid on the high end for their skills but boy was it worth it - after having read all the threads on terrible jobs both aesthetically and functionally, I consider myself lucky to have escaped that kind of outcome. I have gotten unsolicited praise from the inspector who did the final inspection of my bathroom and most recently the owner of my building's plumbing company who is fixing some pipes owned by my building who told me that I had the best kitchen he has seen in the building - and this guy has seen 90% of the kitchens :-).


    I don't know what the solution is because high price isn't a guarantee of quality or competence but obviously it's a way of evaluating competence and skill set since while there can be an incompetent person charging a high price, it is unlikely that a SKILLED professional tradesperson will be cheap. Due diligence in terms of recommendations and viewing work. In my situation, it was the GC and designer who provided the skilled workers.


    In terms of younger native US people become trades people, I am not sure what the solution is. Even in today's world, there are lots of young people who aren't headed for college but there doesn't seem to be any programs which provide kids with training or advice on skilled blue collar jobs and how to get them. Or programs which provide the same kind of work/learn opportunities that the trades union did. So for many young kids it's the worst of all possible economic situations - they are Uber drivers/baristas or Walmart clerks because they haven't been given information and support that would open their eyes to skilled labor positions.

  • AJCN

    It IS extemely hard to find a highly skilled tile installer with integrity, who takes pride in their work, goes to trainings, learns about new products, teaches others, wouldn't want to settle for just an ok result. I have never tried to find someone on the cheap to work in my home. I always search for highly skilled people and start from there getting proposals. I have enormous respect for a person's profession if they really do put quality work into their projects. I searched for years trying to find a real tile pro.

    For 4 years, I contacted every pro I could find in my area, GCs and individual tile professionals. I went on CTEF to search (not one resulting hit had a working phone number), I asked at tile shops, asked for references from friends and co-workers. I widened my search going out over 200 miles. I phone-screened asking one simple question: "How do you build a shower?"

    Dozens of pros told me they use drywall with thinset on top because grout is waterproof. One pro told me we didn't need any waterproofing because we have central AC and that would keep our house dry. A few told me that a sloped floor was nice but not really needed. Not one person said anything that even sounds remotely similar to anything written on here or John Bridge about how to build a shower. Not one pro used any of these words: cement board, taping seams, pre-slope, hydroban, kerdi, wedi, red guard, membrane, pan liner, etc, etc.

    Finally, ONE pro described their waterproofing process using all the right words: making sure the walls are plumb, creating a pre-slope, cementboards with a topical membrane, etc. His references checked out and I was able to see 2 of his projects, at least he said they were his projects. I was happy to pay a very high price because I thought I had found a true professional. Well, once he got started it turned out to be a big lie. He said he instsalled a pre-slope, nope. He created a nice cozy moisture sandwich for me by putting poly behind and red guard on top of the cement board. He subbed-out the tile setting part without talking to me about it and that person did a horrendous job and didn't even have the right tools to make clean cuts. He didn't like it that I asked about the non-pre-slope and why was there was poly plus red guard, so he quit, just walked off the job leaving me with a completely trashed and unusable bathroom.

    At that point I begged for help on this forum and someone pointed me towards a real pro that I hadn't found yet. This person turned out to be a true professional with a multitude of talents, integrity, and pride.

    Of course I had to pay an even higher premium for this pro because he had to come in behind someone else's bad work and take it back to the studs to redo it. And he was dealing with a customer who was afraid at this point to trust someone after such a bad experience. Happily it worked out with this one bathroom, so I had him redo all of our bathrooms because I knew I'd never find another pro if he retired and moved away. The silver lining of having to wait years to find someone is that by then I had saved up enough $$$$ to pay for all that work.

    So yes, it is enormously difficult to find a true pro in this trade, at least in my area it is. This city has over 7,000,000 people in it. I found one true pro in all those years of searching. I'd be delighted if one of my kids wanted to marry him, but he is already taken and probably too good for them anyway.

    I have not had this problem hiring people who are skilled in any other profession: plumbing, swimming pool and patio builders, electricians, upolstry, brick masons, cabinet builders, painters, tax preparers, babysitters, housekeepers, art framers, you name it. Every profession is going to have some hacks in it. But the difference is that in all the other areas it has been relatively easy to figure out who's who. And it's not always tied to price. The hack I hired came at a high price.

    I would just like to know what makes this profession different. This problem cannot always be explained-away by blaming the customer trying to get the lowest price. That certainly was not and never has been a priority for me, and was not the reason the first bath remodel went so badly. The reason it went badly is that the so-called pro who wrote a contract with all the right words in it, charge a high price because he saw a nice big pretty house, and then lied and never intended to do quality work from the get-go.


  • kathleen MK
    There are many factors to this. We have a problem of snobism looking down on trades, that are truly craftsmanship of art and science, as just manual labor. I wish my daughters in the health professions would find a decent tradesman:-)
    There are no regulations on training for tile setting and a true craftsman needs the eye of an artist and the scientific skills of an engineer. Sadly our public schools are cramming college with lots of debt on our elementary students instead of offering more craftsman training.
    Lastly we have a genration that lack work ethics because they have been coddled and just trying to make a quick buck. This spills over into many proffessionals.
  • AJCN

    "We have a problem of snobism looking down on trades, that are truly craftsmanship of art and science."

    Who are the snobs you are talking about? Regular homeowners? I have enormous respect for any professional that brings integrity, knowlegde, and skills to their job.

  • PRO
    Dragonfly Tile & Stone Works, Inc.

    We could discuss this issue in great length as with 35 years dedicated to this trade, we are highly committed to both the professionalism in the craft and to the future of the craft. There are multiple factors at play. Labor shortage in the trades is one of them. The strength of our economy and the impact on demand for our services is another. There are some regional issues as well. For example, some trained tile installers will leave an area where unqualified labor or "cheap" labor is making it too hard to compete. If they cannot cover their overhead which includes insurance, licensing (where applicable), on-going training, and of course all wages and taxes, they will go where they can get both work and a fair compensation. If anyone is truly interested in this issue, you may find the attached resources helpful. But let me start with a recent memo we sent to our former clients. Planning ahead is critical:

    "Just a “heads up” as we want to take care of those who have trusted us with their tile work in the past.

    Are you anticipating a project where you might need us in the next 1-3 years? Recent requests for our services have reminded us that we should reach out to our former customers as you are our priority and we are heavily scheduled in the upcoming months..

    Here’s what you need to know:

    · There’s a boom in the industry

    · There’s a lack of qualified labor and many of the skilled older craftsmen are retiring (we are doing our best to train new apprentices, and no, Lee’s not moving on yet, but….)

    · We want to respond, when possible, to our former clients first

    · Six –twelve months out is not too soon to communicate/plan

    Hope this finds you well.

    Best,

    Lee and Jane

    Dragonfly Tile & Stone Works, Inc."


    And I'll add one more thing. As I was writing this, I have had 2 calls to our office requesting estimates on new tile work. We have to be very selective because we want to be certain that we are a good fit for the job and that we could actually perform the work within the expected time frame. If you want a good contractor and you've done your research, make sure you are realistic about the cost of qualified labor, plan ahead, and be prepared to present your case (yep, you will be vetted before we spend any time on it, including an estimate). Here's how these two calls went: #1) "....You came highly recommended by X and we have seen your work...hope to start next Fall...would be so thankful if you could meet with us and help us begin the process... " #2) "We need a quote for xxx. Got a list of tilers from the internet. We've got the tile, the space is gutted and we are doing the prep ourselves. Just need a quote to install the tile.....tile is from Home Depot...would like to get it done in the next 3 weeks." Which potential client do you think we are going to meet with? Last night I had two inquiries via email (one was through HOUZZ). One wanted a quote to remove and re-grout a bath floor and ASAP as it's their main bath. One was a two sentence email requesting a quote on a small job. They both got polite responses thanking them but with a "sorry we can't help". PICK up the PHONE when you are ready to meet with a potential contractor, be well informed, be respectful and NICE. You are starting a relationship that goes two ways. Earn the qualified contractor in the same way that we want to earn your business. Here's a place to start your research. Hope this helps.

    https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2018/04/25/605092520/high-paying-trade-jobs-sit-empty-while-high-school-grads-line-up-for-university?cmpid=FB&utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#link_time=1526909683

    https://www.ceramictilefoundation.org/homeowners-guide-to-hiring-qualified-tile-installer

    www.ceramictilefoundation.org/blog/the-top-ten-requirements-for-a-quality-tile-installation

    https://www.tcnatile.com/images/pdfs/TCNABulletin_ChoosingYourTileContractor.pdf

    http://tileletter.com/2018/10/dragonfly-tile-and-stone-works-investing-in-the-next-generation-of-craftspeople-and-artisans/?fbclid=IwAR3vm3aCgMr5DR0yq6tcE775M7WTHzmfLWdnFSwbW3uejSv7ibs9BvIi71Y

  • jen ukutegbe
    You can find great tilers, they are out there and not all expensive. The construction trade is a way of life for many here in northern MN. Had I gone with the best recommendation, I would have gotten only a master shower for the $8500 where I now have 2 fireplaces, kitchen backsplash, 2 master bathrooms. All for same price because I searched.

    Some tilers will overcharge if they have huge egos that basically feel they are the only good one around. Look around, get priors, check out his work and what products he uses, etc.
  • PRO
    GreenDesigns

    ^^Joke. $8500 is close to market price for one properly done shower. Key words are Properly Done. You can find folks all day long who won’t do it properly, and you’ll never know, because you don’t have the discernment to SEE.

  • PRO
    Dragonfly Tile & Stone Works, Inc.

    AJCN, thanks for posting this question. I just realized that you mentioned that you checked out CTEF for certified contractors and you said none had a working phone number. That is very disconcerting. Do you mind if I share that comment with CTEF so they can do a review of their listings? Contractors do move, but if they are unreachable, that is unacceptable. Again, thanks for the post.

    AJCN thanked Dragonfly Tile & Stone Works, Inc.
  • AJCN

    Dragonfly,

    I almost deleted my entire account on here because I was feeling really insecure that people would be so mad at me about my post.

    It's been a while, but from what I remember, in addition to all the other searching strategies, I went on the CTEF site to search, and there were 4 or 5 hits in my greater city metro area of about 4-5 million people. Of those hits at least 3 were non-working numbers. The remaining were small businesses that only did flooring.

    We are in the south. I think in this area there are the regional labor issues that were mentioned in the above post. There's so much growth and cheap unskilled labor available that maybe GCs can't resist the path of hiring the cheapest sub they can find, unfortunately. If a homeowner hires a GC at a high price, as in my case, and then the GC hires the cheapest unskilled labor they can find, for a job that requires real skill, the homeowner probably won't even know until the damage has been done.

    I can't blame organiztions like CTEF. They can't force people to take their training. I would imagine it costs hundreds of dollars, travel, hotel, taking time away from paid work, etc. I can totally understand the choice not to do it, but it makes skilled pros harder to find.

    I just went onto CTEF 5 minutes ago and did the same search. Only 3 hits came up within 100 miles. I think my city is up to 6-7 million in population now.

    The problem here might come down to the GCs. The homeowner signs the contract with the GC. The homeowner doesn't choose the tile professional directly or any of the other trades. They rely on the GC to hire well.

    After my master bathroom project went south and the GC quit, leaving us with a trashed and unusable bathroom, I begged for help on this forum. Thank goodness someone on this forum referred me to a real pro in my area. I hired the tile pro directly, cabinet builder directly, painter, plumber, flooring people directly; I guess I turned into the GC without initially wanting to. It worked out in the end, but I would have preferred the GC to do their job rather than quitting.

    Maybe the problem here are the GCs not wanting to pay for high quality professional tradespeople. I don't know. I'm just a homeowner.

  • AJCN

    "You can find great tilers, they are out there and not all expensive. The construction trade is a way of life for many here in northern MN. Had I gone with the best recommendation, I would have gotten only a master shower for the $8500 where I now have 2 fireplaces, kitchen backsplash, 2 master bathrooms. All for same price because I searched."

    I think this post illustrates the customer side of this problem. A customer who hires cheap has only themselves to blame if something goes south (immediately, or many years later as a leak/fail). Customers like me want to find true pros and are willing to pay for a true professional job.

    I would like to hear from some GCs on this issue. Do you charge the customer a high price and then hire cheap unskilled labor to do a job that requires real skills such as waterproofing and tile installation? Are you counting on the homeowner to be clueless so you can pocket the difference?

    Our GC quit rather than re-do the job, so I didn't have the opporunity to ask them these questions.

  • PRO
    Dragonfly Tile & Stone Works, Inc.

    Thank you AJCN. You bring up some very important issues and quite worthy of discussion. As you can tell from our previous comments, most of our work is direct with homeowners. This is an important discussion to be had. Might be a few days before I can get back to this but perhaps others can weigh in. And, no need for insecurity about posting. I think many can learn from these discussions so thanks for bringing up a topic that has plagued many consumers. Oh, and we vet any GC's that want us to bid a project also.

    AJCN thanked Dragonfly Tile & Stone Works, Inc.
  • jen ukutegbe
    8500$, certified, amazing, takes pride in work but works alone and patience needed...laugh all you want, no making over any of his work. Check people out, they are out there. Only photo left out is 2nd FP he finishes tomorrow.
  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC

    We gave a potential customer a $3,500.00 proposal for a custom apron front sink replacement. He told us he was getting it done for $1,800.00. Of course this is impossible, at least to stay in business. He told us our "competitors" said their sink could be undermounted or dropped in. This can only mean they were using a Kohler K3942 which is a top mount but could conceivably be undermounted. If undermounted, the chances of getting the bottom of the larger top mount apron to align with the bottom of the top cabinet drawers is infinitesimal. Drop every drawer front in the kitchen an inch and a quarter? Cut the sink base doors down? His wife is gonna flip, I promise.


    Now we're not in the sink business, we're in the removing-wife-from-cheap-a$$ business. We've stayed in touch with him. Swami Joe can see the future and it doesn't look good for Mr. Gottwobids. It's our fault really. Our sales skills weren't good enough to overcome his greed and for that I apologize.

  • PRO
    GN Builders L.L.C

    Amen to that Joe!


    Was bidding a small kitchen for the guy, just an update, in the upscale neighborhood. My price was 15k, this was to cheap for the neighborhood... Someone came with a better speech, sold them a kitchen for almost 30k, sold them cheap Chinese kitchen, sent a bunch of armatures to do installation... they screwed up everything, 2 month later the job was still not done.

    Happens all the time.

  • Sara
    This is so interesting. I will say that on our remodel, our tile installer has been our most frustrating pro to work with-our contractor has been tearing his hair out, too. Well regarded, recommended by tile shops, GC has worked with him for years. And yet-he’d show up for an hour or two at a time, come back days later, grout a few square feet at a time, leave big mistakes that he’d have to come back and fix...which of course meant everything else in the new master bath was delayed.

    I like how his finished work look, but we sure wouldn’t think of using him for the two remaining tiles areas.
  • PRO
    GN Builders L.L.C

    Not everyone is the same like in any profession.


    You have people who low-bid jobs, so they take a bunch of jobs at the same time, there is no quality control, nobody knows whats going on, they show up for an hour or 2 to make the customers happy and along the way the job takes a left turn and all hell breaks lose.

    Some will just abandon the job if they can't make it up to cover their costs, some will cut hire anyone to pay them less and make more profit and I can go on and on with 1000 and one examples and show you images what some so called "contractors" do to homeowners.

    What you see here, probably the worst example of what people show here, is nothing... You should see the things they do which can have some serious consequences.

    Anybody can close things up and make it look pretty... but the things that being hidden and things that homeowners don't see or don't know any better until after the fact when this issues come to light its a nightmare for some.




  • PRO
    T.F.W.

    @GN especially with tile showers, everything happens under the tile, and there is way to much for the average homeowner to understand and get "up to speed on" then factor in the internet where so often they attempt to "speed study" and in a sea of misinformation such as these forums. Understanding what YOURE NOY getting in the estimate is key, regardless the pricetag.

    We just witnessed A supppsed 20K attempt at a steam shower this past week , homeowner was overseeing the tile laborer and got it 100% wrong. there were immediate and early warning signs ignored entirely, Theres just way to many products, methods and details to speed study especially from the web. This person had claimed to follow tcna and mfg standards and failed miserably at that.

  • PRO
    GN Builders L.L.C

    @TFW look at this guys, they put contractor garbage bags instead of a liner and red brick for the curb. Lasted for 2 months before it started to leak.


    After it's done everything looks good.



    After the ceiling is starting to leak and we started to break up the tiles we found this.






    You think in this business you've see everything and you come across something like this.


  • Lyndee Lee
    One of the issues not yet mentioned is that many of the workers in the construction trades have at least one criminal conviction and addiction issues are common too. In my experience, people who did not do well in the quiet and orderly calm of their grade school classroom or library often ended up in more trouble as they got older. There were and are some very good educators who were able to get great results from kids with ADD, anger issues, dysfunctional families and other issues, but many of those kids ended up in trouble.

    I often see the advice that homeowners should do a criminal background check on potential contractors. I agree that all contractors should be vetted, but a criminal conviction is only one factor and I would never reject a candidate outright for having a conviction. Research the person and their company to find convictions, lawsuits filed and monetary judgements but don't automatically exclude someone without giving them a chance to explain their circumstances. I know a few people who have left their hell raiser days behind them but their records from 10, 20 even 30 years ago don't reflect the person they are now. I also know some seemingly respectable citizens I wouldn't trust any further than I can throw them.

    Not all of us will be able to find and afford the high end professional craftsmen and women. If the budget or the deadline limits the project, homeowners may need to cast their net wider and find someone who is not an ideal candidate. Not every project warrants a top notch installer...don't insist on a high end installer and then use cheap white subway tile from a big box store. Don't be scared of a contractor who does his own tile work if his work is high quality. Many attributes of a good craftsman transfer to different crafts, measuring carefully and cutting precisely is not that much different for wood versus tile. Sure the work may not be as quick or as perfect as a tile pro, but sometimes the goal is an acceptable finished project now not a fantastic job done sometime next year.
  • AJCN

    That's a sad and horrible set of pictures. The first (bad) GC on my project high-balled the bid, said and wrote all the "right words" in the contract, so I thought I had finally found a real pro. Then he delivered something looking like the pictures above. I know there are a lot of homeowners who always want to look for the low-ball bid. But not me. Looking back on it, of course I made a really bad hire. I hired a GC; that GC subbed-out the shower build; that sub re-subbed-out the tile work. When the project went south and we asked questions about the waterproofing, everyone walked off and quit, never to return.

    We have done tons of home projects including a whole house remodel in another home. There are issues that come up in any project, but they have always gotten resolved. This recent bathroom debacle is the only time we have had a project go completely SOUTH and the GC quit, taking our money.

    I'm still wondering about the whole GC involvement that could be contributing to this problem. The only time we have had issues, are in the projects where we've had a GC. I realize that for large projects, people really do need GCs, but at the same time, the only times we have had issues, are in the projects involving GCs.

  • AJCN

    Lyndee Lee

    I understand and respect what you are saying about giving people a second chance and not being judgemental, but skill is skill, and vetting is vetting. Homeowners want to hire skilled pros. I once had a plumbing sub show up on my kitchen remodel so strung out he didn't know that water will go in a downward direction if given the opporutinity.

    If the homeowner is hiring directly, it is their job to vet. If the GC is hiring, it is their job to vet.

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC

    Sorry, there'll be little or no vetting on residential remodel jobs. That's not my opinion, it's the opinion of the remodelers interviewed for a recent article in Remodeler magazine. Many admitted they had to abandon drug testing for employees or they'd be out of business because they'd have no workers. If you can pass a drug test, you're working union on commercial work for $55.00 an hour plus bennies. The best of the best residential contractors can't compete. So the guy installing your cabinets smokes a little pot in the evening. Big deal.

  • PRO
    GN Builders L.L.C

    IMO if you looking to hire someone being a homeowner or a GC look for local contractors who live in the neighborhood or adjoining towns. Stop at local lumber yards who mostly sell to contractors and ask if they could recommend someone, usually they will recommend someone who they been dealing with a very long time and who is a reputable contractor.

    I have tons of botched up pictures like above not only from botched up tile jobs, but related to many trades and almost every botched up job was done by unlicensed trade or "fly-by-night" contractors who work out of the trunk of their car and who gave prices which are good to be true and people couldn't refuse them.


    It works pretty much like any scam works, you given an opportunity to make money for a very little investment and you will be rewarded a huge return and this is when everything goes out the window and all the person see is the $$$ signs. "Hook, Line and Sinker" never fails.


    Same in the construction industry, and in most industries for this matter.

    Consumer gets 3 estimates let'e say $14-15-18k and here comes a guy and says I can do this for 10k but I will need 5k down and i will do this and that, don't worry bout nothing I will take care of everything... and even if there are some red flags, and the guy doesn't own a car, and you have to buy him a few tools...It don't matter, consumer forgets about everything in the world, he is the happiest guy and he will save 4k and the nightmare begins.

    This is a very common scenario in my and a few adjoining neighborhoods near me, you have homeowners with 80-100k cars picking up workers from the bus stop. You see them in local Box Stores renting trucks to bring material home so they can do the work.

    They post ad's on Craig's list something like this " Looking for someone to finish my basement, will pay 2k for labor we provide all the materials". and same for every trade they need.

    Or they will bring home people who post ad's "Carpentry work, plumbing, electrical work, lots of experience $100 per day."

    Believe it or not, people who own 1-2m homes hire this people and bring them into their homes, like this bathroom pictures come from a 600k home... work was done buy a bunch of unlicensed guys from out of state because their price was to good to be true.


    I been in this industry almost 40 years I haven't met anyone yet who needed to be vetted or looked like someone should be checked out, not to mention it takes a 1 min conversation to know where they coming from no matter how nicely they speak or their tongue is notarized or they cannot put 2 words together... the eyes never lie... so if they got their shades on, ask them to take them off please LOL.

    Most GC,'s I use go back with me almost 40 years, I don't hire others because they $100 cheaper, and if someone retired I will look for a new company that was recommended by reputable people I know.

    People I deal with get paid good money and I don't haggle the prices they charge but I don't need to worry when they on the job, and after the job is done, customers don't need to worry about anything.

    Throughout my entire time in business I have unblemished reputation and when people refer me to others "this I heard through the grape wine" some will mention that "I'm not the cheapest guy around" and frankly speaking I'm proud of that and this is the way I like to keep.

    When people bargain with me, I tell them right off the bat, my prices are not negotiable, and if my price are not in your budget, I'm sure there are plenty of companies out there who will do the job cheaper... Good luck.


    I was never about volume I was always about quality and 100% customer satisfaction and when you see this botched up jobs it really makes you think WTH these homeowners were thinking when they hired this guys and I'm talking about homeowners who are educated people and who are well-off and that "low price" or "something done for nothing" made them forget about everything.


    Good luck


  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC

    I made 3 sales calls today and sold each one. One call close, no three bid nonsense.

  • AJCN

    Thanks for all these responses. Reading through these has helped me to do a post-mortem on the situation.

    GN, I did as you recommend. The GC that messed up the job lives 7 blocks from me and was recommended by people I knew on a personal basis, and brought the foreman to talk over the project. The break down, that I wasn't aware of at the time, happened when the job got subbed and re-subbed who knows how many times, and the foreman was leaving the job site after I left for work. GC lost control of the project, and unqualified people were working here. It's possible GC didn't know foreman was doing this; I never got a clear answer on that.

    This failure really shocked me especially since we've done so many projects over the decades and never had anything like this happen before. Definately will be more present and aware of what GC is doing if I ever have to hire one again.

  • PRO
    GN Builders L.L.C

    AJCN

    Sorry things didn't go as they suppose to go.

    Sounds like a GC wasn't on top of things and someone incompetent was running the job and doing God knows what, but GC should be on top of everything whats going on with Foreman there or not.

    I know it's not easy to keep an eye on everything especially when people have to go to work. 85% of the time people leave me the keys and off to work they go, but I'm always on the job every single day from the begging to the end and I schedule everything and everyone since I don't have a Foreman.

    I hope your next project will go smoother than the last one.

    Good luck.

    AJCN thanked GN Builders L.L.C

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