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tammymcl

layout of rose beds

tammymcl
May 24, 2019
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><md>Our rose beds are ready for planting and I’m not sure of my layout. I thought of two options but I’m open to other suggestions. I have two 6’ x35’ long beds on opposite sides of a fountain. The roses are various colors of white, pinks (light, med and darks) apricots and yellow. No two are the same rose. I think that if I plant a very limited selection of
Companion plants, I could bring cohesiveness to the design. The companions I am considering are purple salvia, alchemilla and white sweet alyssum.

Layout #1 grouping 3 roses by color with delphiniums in between. For example,

X X D X X D X X
X X X

Layout #2 staggered rows of rose with a random mix of colors. For example,

X X X X X
X X X X

I’m not the most creative person in the world so I would love some help. I want my daughter’s wedding to be fabulous!!

Comments (70)

  • tammymcl

    Rifis- I’m sorry if I over reacted to your witty post. I’m stressed to the gills getting ready for this day. As a result, my humor meter is set too low. It’s all self induced. I appreciate your thoughtful post. Thank you for your kind suggestions.

  • vaporvac

    I love this forum!

  • mustbnuts zone 9 sunset 9

    I LOVE your space. What a beautiful yard and design!

    I didn't see answers to the questions I have going in my brain. First of all, where do you live? Second, when is the wedding? Third, will the wedding take place under the pergola? Fourth, how many people will be attending and where will they be standing/sitting? Fifth, what time of day is the wedding (lighting of course) and will the reception also be in the same area as the wedding?

    I am asking these questions so we can figure out companion plantings and the timing of the blooms of the roses and what roses would work best in the area.

  • calidesign

    I would stagger the roses, because it will be much easier to maintain them that way. I would also plant the colors randomly because different roses will bloom at different times, have flowers that last shorter or longer, and grow to different heights. I don't think you would want a grouping of three without flowers. Plant for the full size of each rose to give them enough space. Alyssum is a great idea along the edges. Then I would wait until closer to the ceremony to fill in with other blooming plants as needed. Salvia only looks good when fully in bloom and needs full sun - it looks like you have quite a bit of shade.

  • flowersaremusic z5 Eastern WA

    If you're not familiar with roses, you might want to consider that Hybrid Teas are generally tall and narrow, and Floribunda and Shrub roses are generally bushier, and as wide as tall. A very good resource is the David Austin catalog. It's free from https://www.davidaustinroses.com/us/. Type 'catalog' in the search bar. I'm not suggesting you only plant Austin roses, but use it for the information. There is a color fold out in the back that would be very helpful with color selection.

    tammymcl thanked flowersaremusic z5 Eastern WA
  • tammymcl

    Mustbenuts- I live in the Williamette valley in Oregon. Zone 8b. Wedding is July 13th at 6:00 pm. At that time, there will be some shade for the 125 guests. The area gets full sun all day until about 6:00. Wedding is under pergola with the chairs set on both sides of the fountain. Bridal party will walk up alternating sides of the fountain.
    The soon to be grassy area to right of the fountain/bed is where the reception will be.

  • tammymcl

    Here are the roses. They are a mostly hybrid teas with a few grandifloras and floribundas.

  • tammymcl

    And this one

  • K S 8b Seattle

    A veritable rainbow! As someone suggested above, these roses will have very different habits. Hybrid teas tend to be very upright and "leggy" -- not bushy, whereas floribundas tend to grow in a bushier way. Anyway, they won't look very different from the way they do now by the wedding (filling out and blooming, one hopes) but in the long run, if I were you, I'd put the hybrid teas at the back of your clusters and the floribundas in front.

  • ac91z6

    A bunch of pretty choices! I'm still a novice so I don't have much advice, but I will echo what others have said about considering each type's typical growth habit. Some Hybrid Teas require quite the pruning regimen to make them nicely shaped bushes and not just blooming machines. Others are more forgiving and don't need drastic measures. Other HTs are gangly bushes no matter what - I say that as I'm about to plant a 'Mr. Lincoln' in my own beds, so don't feel like you can't use that sort of HT.

    If you do use a rose known to have, uh, 'awkward architecture' you could put it behind a smaller, fuller/shubbier bush

    Awkward Rose VS. Rose Rose

    Short Rose Short Rose Rose

    The delphiniums might help camouflage any awkward rose canes too - I've never grown them so I have no idea. Your site looks lovely! Congratulations and best wishes to the couple!

  • vaporvac

    Wow!That quite the selection! Are those Weeks' roses. I think I recognize some! How did you go about choosing them? The pics really help in trying to figure out a sympathetic planting. I have similar beds on either side of a walkway, but chose light, med pink with white and very deep reds (Munstead Wood) with stachys lanata and lavender lining them. Oh, there is one yellow (Molineux) which I may add to the other side, and pale purple iris. No apricots or really warm reds or pinks. I think the lavenders are lovely with apricots and yellow, but will have to think on how best to blend them into the next colour. Perhaps put them at either end. Are you keeping this arrangement after the wedding? Anyway, it's possible to have them blending, but not colourblocked......thinking. : )) I'm currently pondering the same issues with two other beds.

  • K S 8b Seattle

    Someone (was it vaporvac?) suggested an ombre effect, by clumping roses of similar colors together and following an order much like the pictures you have posted above. I think that would look good. So if you have clumps of three you would have three red roses on each side of the walkway facing each other, and then moving on to the purples, etc. as above. If you do that, I would suggest clumping the stripey in with the pinks.

  • J Williams

    Some roses bloom sporadically, do you know they will be in bloom when you need them? Flowers usually have more impact if you have a large group of the same colour/species/variety. Having some foliage plants is a good idea, they always look good. Verbena bonarensis is another very pretty, graceful flower and like salvia, the blooms last a long time.

  • vaporvac

    David Austin actually does this in his latest catalogue and it's very useful for colour comparison. I'm sure you can still get one if you call.

  • tammymcl

    To answer Vaporvac’s questions - most of the roses are from Edmunds, a few from JP, a local nursery and about 6 from a big box store.
    I selected them based on scent, size and bloom time. These flowers will stay put after the wedding.

    Re the suggestion of ht in back, fl in front- what about the grandifloras? There are also 6 shrub roses. Should I use them in this garden? I have 4 dbl knockout reds and 2 pinks. If they don’t “go”, I could put at the ends or on both sides of the pergola beds.

    Another thought, i could put the whites in pergola beds along with lavender and chartreuse sweet potato Wedding color theme is blush pink to gold.

    So many great suggestions for the layout. I will ponder this forever so it’s time for a team vote. Lol
    Ombré or mixed color blocks?

  • tammymcl

    I forgot to mention that I have 4 pale pink honeymoon arborrose for the pergola. It’s the one that looks like a peony in my selections.

  • K S 8b Seattle

    Treat the grandifloras like hybrid teas -- put them in the back of your clusters. Treat shrubs like floribundas -- put them at the front of your clusters. I would vote to keep similar colors together in your blocks of three, and would keep the more subtle colors (whites or pinks) near the pergola for photo purposes and the reds/purples/oranges (which aren't in the color scheme) closer to the entrance, organized in a sort of ombre. But before finalizing I'd ask your daughter which color she wants near the pergola for her photos. It is going to look wonderful, whatever you do.

  • tammymcl

    Thank you so much. With this wedding, my powers of decisiveness have deserted me. With every decision that is made, my stress goes down. Love this forum!!!

  • sharon2079

    I think your design is beautiful.... and I love the fact that after the wedding you will have a "momento" garden to the event.... I think the hard part is getting the roses timed right to bloom for the event. I am not even successful getting mine to bloom for our rose show, or for holidays.... I don't want to cause any more stress... so these ARE ONLY questions that hopefully someone can chime in on to help you... but it could even cause more stress waiting to plant closer to the time... My thought is once you get a rose plant (at least here in Florida) it is going to take its sweet time putting out roses. First it is going to put out lots of roots, then it will put out the flowers. I am wondering if you got the roses and kept them in pots, feeding them and containing their roots at least until the wedding... Someone posted a picture for me on the forum with mini roses actually planted in the pots in the ground.... Would this work.... but then you could really plant them afterwards..... Or if you had someone who could help you plant and mulch them very close to the wedding while they are full of buds, maybe they would open on the wedding day.. These are only thoughts.... hopefully someone more knowledgeable could comment.... Do you have a rose nursery close to you that you could pick out your roses and they could get them in great shape to be planted at that time... do they help plant the roses..... Do you have a rose society with a rosarian that could come out to your home and help you with the timing.... even if the roses don't bloom on wedding day... your entire garden will be beautiful... you have done lots of work on it... Good luck.... and don't forget to post pictures of the event afterwards... I am sure we all would love to see your rose garden and the wedding.

  • katinparadise

    following

  • Perma n’ Posies/9A FL

    I love the whites and blushes at the pergola, so maybe start with the brighter hues at the opposite end, and let it fade into pastels at the pergola end? If you ombré it this way, by color intensity, it could give you more flexibility in planting. :-)

  • robw1963

    Learned something new today. Before this forum I had never heard the word "ombre." Now that I have an idea what it means I like the idea of moving from one shade or color to another. It seems like it would give the scenery more fluidity.


  • J Williams

    Ombré just means shading.

  • mustbnuts zone 9 sunset 9

    Make sure you amend the soil and feed the roses 6--8 weeks before the wedding so you will have blooms on the roses for the event. We all want to see pictures! It is going to be stunning! Roses love alfalfa meal and a good organic fertilizer such as Rose Tone or Dr. Earth will be great for the roses. Also mulch in the beds will make them stand out and look tidy.

    Some of the smaller varieties of salvia, cat mint, etc., would be beautiful companion plants. I purchased a plant called Laurentia from Annie's on-line. It has wonderful blue flowers and reseeds itself. It would look great tucked in here and there as a filler. I would think that it would do well in your area. Also, Iris look good mixed in with roses along with day lilies. You could get mid summer blooming irises and/or repeat bloomers.

    I am just showing you a picture of my front walkway from a couple of years ago. I have the roses but also have Iris, the Laurentia , day lilies and solar lanterns that glow softly at night. It is to just give you an idea about tucking in other filler plants where there might be bare spots or something not quite in bloom yet.

  • tammymcl

    Sharon-I never even though about timing the roses. Guess it shows how little I know about them. I thought I would just be planting them in the ground and voila, the magic happens. Lol
    The mostly bareroot roses were planted in pots in March. From what you’re saying, it sounds like keeping them in pots as long as poss would be best. Is that right? Looks like I have some reading to do.

  • tammymcl

    I was planning on using Garden Rich Planting Soil from Lane Forest Products. Here is the description from their website.

    Garden Rich is a tried and true planting soil combining a high quality blend of ingredients into a healthy balanced soil. Flowers, shrubs and vegetables are set up to thrive in this soil.
    USES:
    Raised Garden Beds for growing vegetables and flowers.Transplanting trees and shrubs. To raise depth and level garden beds.
    APPLICATION:
    For general landscaping apply to depth up to 12” to provide growing space for the roots of your plants. Incorporate with native soil as needed.

    Ingredients: Blend of Yard Debris Compost, Cow & Chicken Manure Compost, Aged Bark Fines, Loam, Sand, Forest Wood Bio-Char, and Limestone (for pH control).

    Would this be ok? Do I need to mix in native soil?

  • mustbnuts zone 9 sunset 9

    Always mix in native soil as that is what the roses will have to "live with and grow" for the rest of their lives. I would get them into the ground ASAP. Otherwise you will have to wait until the fall and I am not sure what size pots they are in now but you don't want to constrict root growth as that is what will support your roses in the long run. Even though you have some good amendments that you are planning for your beds, I still would feed them with a good organic mix (does not have to be a lot) six weeks before your wedding so they have new blooms and buds on them. Even compost will help.

    Check and see the heights of your roses (should be in your description of the rose) or check each one out on https://www.helpmefind.com/rose/plants.php. Roses grow at different heights depending on where you live. What will grow well for you in your zone, can become a monster in my zone.

  • sharon2079

    I am glad that others are chiming in on "when" to plant. Here in Florida I don't have to worry about getting them established before frost. So yes, if it gets cold there you need to get them in so they have a chance to get established. When you plant I would suggest using some SuperThrive to help get them off to a good start. You said they were bareroot in the spring.... have they already bloomed once this year.... if they have then you can use that bloom and count the days to their next bloom.... The reason I was suggesting in leaving them in pots was I know that nursery's can force then to bloom - however - I have never done this, and why I had suggested to speak to a local rose nursery.... however, planting to late in your timezone could be fatal to the plant during the winter... good that someone suggested that you should get them in the ground.

  • tammymcl

    I have the colors all arranged as suggested. How far apart should they be?

  • tammymcl

    My bed is 6’ wide. Can I set the back row 12” from edge of bed? Sorry for all the questions.

  • K S 8b Seattle

    Hi Tammy,
    You can plant the back row 12" from the back of the bed, if you don't want to plant anything else behind. Do you want the roses to grow together into a mound of combined plants? Or do you want them separated? If separated I'd suggest 3.5-4 feet. David Austin roses suggest a spacing of about 2 feet between plants (for shrubs/floribundas) to create a sort of mound of roses (with the plants growing together). However, on the West Coast I find David Austin underestimates the size roses will attain. If you put them 3 feet apart they will probably still grow to overlap each other. Hybrid teas tend to be less round, and more upright -- so you may be able to set them at closer centers (maybe 2.5 feet apart) than you would a bushier rose. However, they also tend to be finickier than floribundas about things like crowding and air circulation, and may experience more intense disease pressure (blackspot, powdery mildew) if planted too densely (whereas many floribundas/shrub roses and old garden roses seem to be OK with a certain amount of rubbing shoulders with other plants). Since you say they will get enough sun (which is great for fighting off disease) giving them enough nutrients and water will be important if the roses are planted densely.

    This isn't a definitive answer. Here in Seattle, in full sun, I have an Austin and a hybrid perpetual planted on four foot centers and expect that when the hybrid perpetual is mature they will overlap. For your planting I would suggest you space your triangles at 3 feet, or to get a slightly denser look, the back two hybrid teas at 2.5 apart from each other with the floribunda 3 feet in front of them. Hopefully you will get more answers from hybrid tea enthusiasts -- my roses tend to be bushier, and therefore require more space.

  • K S 8b Seattle

    P.S. if you want more opinions on this, you can start a new thread on the rose forum, "spacing for hybrid teas and floribundas, Oregon" and you will get a lot of info.

  • ellatiarella

    I don't know what part of the country you are in, but here in southwest Michigan, an annual named Victoria Blue Salvia blooms all summer with no deadheading needed. I personally love the color and would intersperse it all along the beds, in all the "in-between and sort of in front of the roses" positions. The repetition of the blue along the full length of both beds would be glorious, imho. You can replace the annual salvia with perennials next year when your roses are larger, when you don't have to worry so much about what will be blooming on a certain date. (I could never get Delphiniums to do anything but flop over, by the way. To me, they seem high-risk for a wedding display.)

  • mustbnuts zone 9 sunset 9

    Tammy, there is no set dimensions as to how far apart you need to space the roses. It is going to depend on the size of the rose. Each rose will get a different size and therefore will require a different amount of space. Earlier I posted a link to Help Me Find and that website will give you the general dimensions of each rose. I would have at least two feet minimum between the rose and the back of the bed/wall if you can.

    Do you have sprinklers in the bed to water the roses? You get a lot of rain in Oregon so you will probably have to watch out for fungal diseases on your roses. Since you are starting with new beds, I am not sure if you were planning on having drip.

  • tammymcl

    Love the suggestion for the salvia Victoria Blue. Today I bought all they had at our local store.

    Irrigation plan for bed is drip.

  • mustbnuts zone 9 sunset 9

    Roses tend to like water and Salvia, not so much so you may want more emitters around your roses than your salvia. Colors should be just gorgeous with your roses.

  • tammymcl

    Bed is in. Is it ok the mulch with steer manure?

  • robw1963

    That looks sharp! Think how beautiful they will be once they reach their full growth. Can't speak to the mulching with steer manure, however.

  • sharon2079

    Very NICE!!!!! Looking forward to seeing pictures of progress.... thank you for sharing with us.....

  • totoro z7b Md

    Looks great. Good luck. What color pattern did you end up going with?

  • tammymcl

    Blues, whites and chartreuse to unify the roses

  • calidesign

    Keep up on the rose pruning so you have the most possible blooms for the event. I wouldn't use any type of mulch that has an odor. Some can be very strong, and you don't want a bad smell so near the guests.

  • Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR

    Steer manure bagged had no offensive odor here and is a nice dark color.

  • Perma n’ Posies/9A FL

    Maybe test the steer manure out in an out-of-the-way corner? We have a cow manure here called Black Kow that will burn plants if applied too heavily. Some of them are quite concentrated once dehydrated. That way you could also test to see if it had an odor? :-)

  • tammymcl

    The bagged steer manure here also has no odor. Dumb question here. Since my soil already has amendments, will the steer manure be too much nutrients?

  • K S 8b Seattle

    If I were you I wouldn't let the manure touch the actual bases of the roses, avoiding contact with the canes. What sorts of amendments are already in the soil?

  • K S 8b Seattle

    P.S. your new rose beds look great!

  • tammymcl

    KSb- the soil is blend of yard debris compost, chicken and cow compost, aged bark fines, loam, sand,forest wood biochar,and limestone for ph control.
    Unfortunately this morning I noticed some yellowing of a few plants.

  • K S 8b Seattle

    That sounds like a pretty rich mix -- if I were you I would hold off on adding manure or fertilizer. Mulching with wood chips or something similar would offer less risk of fertilizer burn. It is hard to tell what those leaf defects are caused by. To some degree all roses will have leaves that are at the end of their life cycles, have been munched by an insect, etc, at any given point. If the problem starts to spread to more leaves, and it presents a clear set of symptoms, then you might start to worry.

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