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WoolyPipevine

Dutchman's Pipevine

Set up for hatching pipevine swallowtail eggs.

Anna

Looks like they still won't. But hopefully you get the picture :)

I hope you have plenty of leaves, because pipevine swallowtails are big eaters, like monarchs. They are one caterpillar that can do a good job of raising themselves outside on their own - I've only found one critter that will eat them it's a certain predatory stinkbug. Yes, they'll pupate on the ceiling of their enclosure, and they don't have any particular diseases, a very healthy species. I always cut whole pieces of vines, just check the water pretty often if you use floral tubes, because they run out of water fast.

If you find that you have more cats than pipevine leaves to feed them, let me know. My daughter lives in Tampa, so I guess I could drive there and take some home to raise here and/or on my new property, both places having pipevines growing. I'd hate to see them starve!

I'll see if I can find my picture of that bad stinkbug and post it.

I found two picture of stinkbugs that will eat PVS cats -

Sherry

Thanks Sherry. I will definitely reach out if I need you to foster some cats. And I'll prepare for BIG eaters and hopefully no weird unexplained deaths.

I had never seen the 2 stinkbugs you pictured until this year. I saw one of the top shown black and red dudes take a small Monarch cat on Swamp Milkweed right in front of me and run like heck down the plant. I have not seen the 2nd more colorful bug. But I will keep an eye out.

Most of the cats in my yard are eaten by wasps/yellow jackets or Brown Anole lizards. I didn't set out to raise butterflies on my screened porch. I just wanted give them more host and nectar plants to make up for loses due to over development of FL. But, I never found any chrysalides for 2 years. The third year I started watching very closely and between the lizards and the wasps most cats became food. I decided to provide a little protection.

So, I'm very glad to hear Pipe Vine Swallowtails are good at fending for themselves. I did leave many eggs outside to see how they fare.

I have been seeing this bug very often in the last 10 days before that, as in this spring, I never saw it. I think it's some kind of assassin bug. Here's a photo of Mom and Jr taken on the Wooley Pipe Vine.

Do you know what this is and do they dine on Pipe Vine cats?

Anna

That's a milkweed assassin bug, Anna. Last year they were all over my passionvines, eating newly hatched gulf frits, so I raised more gulf frits myself than I usually do. They're also on my milkweed now, but they weren't here in March when I raised the monarchs. Last year I squished so many of them I never thought I'd see them again, but they're here in large numbers!

Sherry

Sherry, I can hear the Pipevine cats eating just like you said. I can't believe how loud they munch!

Anna

Your question about leaves vs vines : From my experience with

Polydamas ST, I say vines.

And water unnec. when you stuff growing vines into an enclosure.

The Pipevine cats are now about 7 days old. All of the 110 eggs did not hatch at the same time, so there are cats at various stages of development in 2 different habitats.

Last night around 7, I noticed about 20 cats in one habitat had stopped eating and moved up onto the mesh walls of the habitat. I had placed fresh food in the habitat and cleaned out the frass about an hour before. None of the cats were on the mesh walls at the time. All the cats on the mesh have their heads pointing up.

Here's the thing, they are still in the exact same spots 18 hours later.

It may just be the large number, all doing this at the same time, that's making me uneasy. I've never raised cats that "move in a herd" the way Pipevines seem to move. Are they just taking a break before the next molt? At 7 days old, it's too soon for pupation.

Has anyone seen this behavior? I'm hoping this is not due to some illness or parasite.

Ideas?

Anna

When pipevine swallowtails are still, they're molting - they usually do it on the side of the cage. They'll be fine! The fact that there are so many doing it at one time is undoubtedly because you have so many of them.

Sherry

Thanks Sherry.

And you know I left about 25 outside on 2 different vines in pots. On one pot, no cats at all. That's where the all the Milkweed Assassin bug babies were.

The other pot has 5 cats still looking good as of this morning (approximately 7 days after hatching). I'm keeping my fingers crossed for them.

Anna

The Pipevine cats are finally starting to molt after 20-21 hours of total stillness on the mesh wall. I feel better. :)

Anna

I am shocked by how much bigger these Pipevine Cats are after that molt! They look almost 1/4"-1/2" longer.

I haven't done a head count yet, and I haven't found any dead ones or seen any sickness. Still, I'm thinking there's not 110 cats in the 2 habitats. I'll try to count today. They may eat the dead ones? Or, they may eat the smaller ones? They are definitely eating a lot of Pipevine!!

Anna

Yes, it takes swallowtails, especially PVSs, a long time to finally shed their skin - you can tell they're molting, not only by their stillness, by the way their heads sort of stick out funny, I can't exactly describe it. After it's done, they usually eat their old skin. And they do indeed look bigger afterwards - congrats, Anna!

Sherry

Sherry, now that you mention the head thing, I'll keep an eye out.

The official Pipevine Caterpillar count is 74. So that's 74 cats from 110 eggs with no dead bodies found, no quarantined ill cats and no escapees. I am assuming 36 eggs were consumed as eggs/caterpillars since 30 June.

Next time maybe I'll break them up into even smaller groups. But, I never let them run out of food which is when cats can tend to be cannibals. I also keep the smallest cats in a plastic container even though it is in the same enclosure. The bigger cats seem to prefer the more open space of the habitat floor and I don't usually see them in the container with the smaller cats.

But the 36 missing is a mystery. Nature at it's finest.

Anna

Maybe those 36 never hatched? It's common for large groups of eggs to have some infertile ones. When the female lays her eggs, she has to attach the sperm and what they swim in to the egg mass to fertilize them and, probably, make them stick to the leaf or stem. (I used to assume butterfly eggs were fertilized inside the mother butterfly's body after mating) Trying to get the right amount of stuff onto lots of PVS eggs is probably tricky.

Sherry

I had no idea. You see butterflies flying around stuck together, one thinks internal fertilization. So, knowing it's external fertilization, it makes perfect sense that the number difference is due to infertile eggs. I made sure to look at all the egg clutches after hatching and there were no intact eggs left. I assumed they hatched but more likely they were infertile and were eaten by the hatching cats.

Now, this race is in it's final stretch and the question is..... will the pipe vine last until pupation? These creatures are eating machines!!! Look at the state of one of my pipe vines. Compare it to the very first photo in this thread.

I am now feeding them 4 times a day. I'm hoping pupation for the bulk of the 74 cats is only a couple of days away. Or I'm going to be out trying to score some pipe vine. :)

Anna

You might be out trying to get some more pipevine! Is there a native nursery there that carries it? I sure hope so. There's a nursery out from Sarasota that carries natives, it's close to the Myakka sp.? River, out in the country. They might have some.

I just looked that nursery up, (Florida Natives Nursery) and they don't have any pipevines.

I looked up Shady Oak Butterfly Nursery, and they're out of all three of the Aristolochia species they carry. :(

Sherry

Thanks for checking Sherry! I've been to the nursery in Myakka. Cool place. I bought several varieties of bamboo there many years ago.

No, I ordered this Wooly Pipe Vine from SC because I could not find any in a 50 mile radius. Let's just hope it lasts!!

Anna

Been reading this thread and find it very informative. You sure put it the effort, Anna. I really like pipevine swallowtails, but they are often difficult to photograph because they fly so swiftly and don't tend to stay on a flower or leaf for very long. You may have some volunteers coming up of the tomentosas. I have a lot of vines now from an original two or three.

Tom, how did you get volunteer pipe vines, by seed or root system? Mine are growing in pots and so far I haven't seen any flowers. Do they flower in the winter here? Because it's going to take time for mine to recover from all these cats.

Anna

I've got several Pipevine caterpillars purging now.

I hope this is a sign they getting ready to pupate and not just go into another molt. All the other types of cats I've raised only purged when pupating or ill. I don't think I've got enough pipe vine if it's just another molt.

Anna

They're about to molt - great!

Have you smelled the bad odor that PVS cats make, especially when they purge?

Sherry

Sherry, are they about to molt to another instar or pupate to a chrysalis?? Please say chrysalis!

Anna

There I go making another senior moment comment - I meant to say CHRYSALIS!!

Sherry

You know I have found that the Pipevine Cats are less likely to pop out their osmeterium than the Black Swallowtail cats. I can pick up the pipevines when cleaning the habitat and never see a scent organ. But barely nudge a Black swallowtail cat and that gland is out in a nanosecond.

Anna

Yes, I've noticed the same thing. BSTs probably 'stick out their tongue' at you the most of any cat.

Sherry

I've got many Pipevine cats J'ing but no chrysalides yet.

Anna

Anna, sorry it took me so long to answer your question about how I got volunteer tomentosas. I think most of them came from seeds, although there are clearly others that have spread by roots from the originals. I can't really remember the "flower." I think it's quite small and pale, but I'm not sure. I was also able to take some cuttings and grow them that way.

Tom, I'm going to try rooting some cuttings. There are several articles on the web about rooting pipevine. Many have had limited success. One article said cuttings of the tender green vine needs to be taken in July using the leaf nodes as the place for sprouting roots. I take this to mean cut the vine 1/4" below a leaf node and stick in water, root hormone, potting medium, etc .. choose your method.

Seeing that one of my pipevines looks like this now.

And the other pot is not much better, I figure what the heck, take some vine cuttings. In fact, I did cut the vine by mistake this morning. So I started a group of cuttings with old root hormone in water. Only one cutting has a leaf and a node. All the others just have nodes. This may not work. I'll get new powdered root hormone and liquid and conduct a little experiment.

I'll let you know the results of the experiment.

Anna

There are about 23 Pipevine Swallowtail chrysalides this morning!! I am very excited!

Some are still pupating and there are still about 30 cats.

There was some cannibalism. I found 3 cats eating a still soft chrysalis.

My experience has been that cannibalism occurs when very big cats eat very small ones or as in this case, of a soft (not dry yet) defenseless chrysalis being eaten by cats usually just about to pupate. Younger cats don't seem to bother soft chrysalides. I've never seen a cat eat another cat of its own size.

This is also obviously one of the BIG reasons cats leave the host plant to pupate. I have them in an artificial environment where they cannot move very far away from the food source. This is one of the draw backs of raising them in captivity.

Anna

Congrats on all the chrysalides, Anna! I've seen cannibalism of PVS chrysalides , too, sad, but there are always SO many of them, that it's not quite as bad.

Sherry

The green ones are so cute, Iris!

Sherry

The first Pipevine Swallowtail emerged today!! And it's a beauty!!

Anna

Beautiful!

18 Pipevine Swallowtails (in 2 enclosures) emerged this morning!! It's amazing to see so many at once!! I am waiting for the rain to pass to release them. I'll try to get photos or maybe even a video.

Anna

All 18 have been set free!

I think it's amazing how this super thin and light chrysalis still holds it shape after the butterfly has emerged. AND still hold the red liquid from the transformation. Wow, what a material!!

Anna

Congrats, Anna!

Sherry

Results of the experiment with rooting A. tomentosa in July using new growth. Every combination FAILED!!

I tried:

• Just water with leaf node in water.
• Root hormone water with leaf node in water.
• Potting soil with powdered root hormone on node.
• Potting soil with liquid root hormone on node.
• Vermiculite with powdered root hormone on node.
• Vermiculite with liquid root hormone on node.

All combinations were keep in bright indirect sun light on a north facing porch. The medium was kept damp. Not one root emerged on any of the cuttings.

I guess seeds are the way to go.

Anna

Attached growing vine on ground, spot-anchored, soil on bare nodes. (Ideally also one or more uncovered nodes having growing leaf or portion.) Shade, water.

Will do Four, as soon as the vines get long enough. All those Pipevine and Polydamas cats did a number on them. :)

Anna

I assume that all of them had some leaves on top. Did you mist them regularly? That helps. I also split the nodes with a single-blade razor before I put them in potting soil. Normally with cuttings I now put them in a plastic container that has holes on top and bottom. However, tomentosa vines are clearly difficult to root.

Yes, I misted them but I had no leaves so there were none on any of the cuttings. Maybe that's why they failed. I didn't know to split/scar the nodes before putting them in the mix.

Hey, more new things to try! Thanks Tom.

Anna

Hey, Anna. We keep trying new things to see what works.

Leaves send messages downward to start with the roots already! The more humid the atmosphere the better for rooting, in my experience. That's why I use the containers.

I had a gardener at Disney tell me about spitting the nodes with a razor. I also dip the nodes in rooting powder before I put them into potting soil.

I suppose that if you can find seeds that would be a way to make more sure that you will have some plants in the future.

Good luck.

I've never been able to successfully root A. tomentosa either, Anna, but, eventually yours will start colonizing, and you can dig up the volunteers. I just make sure I get plenty of dirt when I dig them up, then pot them up, put them in a shady spot, and make sure they stay moist but not soaked.

Nearly all of my pipevine swallowtails have made their chrysalis, a few are still running around looking for the best place to attach themselves (or whatever it is they're running around for) and one real big one is still eating. I'll release some here in town and some in the country - 'looking forward to it!

Sherry

I know!!! What is up with all that running around by Pipevine cats before they pupate??? Maybe they are genetically programed to go on a long journey before pupation. Keeping them in an enclosure disrupts the programing, so they ramble around the enclosure for days, who knows? I want to see photos when they emerge!! Taking some to the country is great idea.

I can't believe this but I am actually removing butterfly eggs!!! Ughhh!! But the A. tomentosa vines just can't handle the munching right now. I moved what was left of the potted A. macrophylla vines to a sunnier spot and, by george, they are looking better and might even grow this time!! None of these got to flower this first year, so no seeds to play with but when they grow back out, I'll try cuttings with leaves and "stapling" some vines to the dirt in the pot.

There's next year to consider. :)

Anna

Anna, would you mail some eggs to me? If so, then message me via my profile where you should see "Message" button.

Four, let me know if the eggs arrive safely.

Anna

Caterpillars arrived today, thank you very much Anna. Probably safely. I wish that I had thought to find someone to receive them at an establishment where mail is delivered indoors.