katyajini

Why did my Buff Beauty turn pink???

katyajini
July 15, 2019

My Buff Beauty was lost in my neglected yard. But I found it and am nurturing it hopefully back to good health. It had only one cane and that looked healthy as it leafed out, bloomed very well and fragrance was exactly as I remembered. But the flowers were smaller than I remember them to be and they are pale pink! Not at all the buff color. What happened? How does this happen? A new cane is emerging lets see what happens.

Thanks

Comments (50)

  • rifis (zone 6b-7a NJ)

    (Disclosure: I am no expert on matters of health; my spouse constantly reminds me about this)

    You indicated you nurtured this rose back to health. Apparently it does not subscribe to the philosophy “it’s better to look good than to feel good”.

    Why would it want to be buff, when you’ve returned it in the pink of health?

    Good job!

  • ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9

    The blooms turning pink and the smaller size are most probably due to the increased temperatures of summer. Some roses are phototrophic, which means they react to the sun by turning pink, usually around the edges first, and many roses, in fact the majority, have smaller blooms when it gets really hot. All that will change again with the advent of the cooler days of autumn.

    katyajini thanked ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9
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  • Paul Barden

    I bet it is/was a grafted plant.....

    katyajini thanked Paul Barden
  • katyajini

    Than you Ingrid...it can be what you said. But the first blooms were in spring and it was not hot at the time.


    Thank you Paul: To the best of my recollection I got it from ARE and they sell own root. Everything else about the rose, habit, fragrance, leaves, thorns, says BB. I could be wrong.

    Lets see what happens rest of the summer!

  • shebabee

    I have a 4- or 5-year-old own-root Buff Beauty. It's probably my happiest, healthiest rose, well suited to my foggy, chilly San Francisco location. I've never seen it go pink until just a few weeks ago, when a a couple of blooms showed some pink. We had finally had some warm (above 63F) temps for maybe a week, so perhaps that is the reason. There are no more blooms just now as it's between flushes, but I'm betting the next ones will be back to buff/gold/etc.


    katyajini thanked shebabee
  • jerijen

    I have an Austin I thought was budded on Multiflora. Clearly, it was budded onto Manettii.

    Can you post photos of the blooms?


    katyajini thanked jerijen
  • katyajini

    I actually dont have pictures of those blooms! Didn't think of it at the time. But I think there will be blooms 7-10 days.

  • katyajini

    Want to add: BB has been in my yard for a long time. Whenever I remember looking at the bush the flowers were buff. I have never seen pink and it has been hot many of the times. All I am trying to say I just dont get it.

  • jerijen

    katya -- That's why I think it possible that you have a rootstock growing.

    Here, for example, is 'Cymbaline':

    Here, OTOH, is 'Manetti' rootstock -- working hard at a takeover:

    katyajini thanked jerijen
  • ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9

    Jeri, you're the bee's knees! Since Katya had never seen pink on her BB before, your theory has great merit.

  • jerijen

    And, HEY, This was a huge surprise to me, since we did NOT know that rose was on Manetti. We thought it was on Multiflora -- but . . . Now that it's suckering like this, we KNOW what it is.

    BTW -- I actually like Manetti a lot. Here's what a very old Manetti looks like:

    katyajini thanked jerijen
  • sultry_jasmine_nights (Florida 9a)

    Manetti is beautiful. I wouldnt mind it taking over a few of my roses lol.

    katyajini thanked sultry_jasmine_nights (Florida 9a)
  • jerijen

    If ONLY it were remontant!

  • comtessedelacouche (10b S.Australia: hotdryMedclimate)

    I had the impression, rightly or wrongly, that BB tends to get its more intense colouring in cooler weather/ climates, and to be paler in general, with soft gold fading through buff to ivory white in warmer times and climates. But that impression may well be wrong.

    Some roses (those with China ancestry, IIRC) do the heat thing - what the late Deane Ross called the 'sun-tanning effect' - and some go the other way. But BB's deeper colours that I've seen have all been in the apricot/ orange range, never pink, so that is a puzzle.

    Rootstock would seem the obvious reason, were it not from ARE. And if everything else looks like BB - canes, prickles, bloom form etc, that makes one wonder. Detailed photos may be the only way to resolve it, when the next blooms come through, IF they are still pink!

    Manetti is lovely, Jeri. I think I'm getting it confused with Morletti, which IIRC is a Boursault. I don't think that repeats either. Please excuse these random babblings...

    katyajini thanked comtessedelacouche (10b S.Australia: hotdryMedclimate)
  • jerijen

    It IS lovely, isn't it? For some reason (random babblings here) it always makes me think of Easter Eggs . . .

    On several group rose rustles, the late Col. Mel Hulse (of the San Jose Heritage Rose Garden) became quite frustrated with the ladies in the group . . .

    Everytime we encountered a 'Manetti' in bloom, we'd all rush up to it excitedly. He couldn't understand why we couldn't "get over" 'Manetti'. (I swear, it made me love it even more.) I wish some enterprising person would X it with some other pink Noisette and create a remontant 'Manetti.'

    Here's Mel -- Trying once again to curb our enthusiasm for 'Manetti'

    And here's my 'Buff Beauty' which lives in too much shade . . .

    The bottom image is the closest I've seen BB get to pink.

    katyajini thanked jerijen
  • monarda_gw

    Buff Beauty really is a beauty!

  • HU-455777712

    I used to post here as rbehs, but I deleted my Houzz account over privacy concerns. But I had to create a new user account to say that my Buff Beauty does turn pinkish sometimes, especially on the outer petals. But I feel it happens during cooler weather, not warm. Here is a picture I found from last August:



    I'm still posting over at Reddit periodically. I will try to post a picture of Mme. Berkeley there today.

    katyajini thanked HU-455777712
  • katyajini

    Thank you folks for this interesting conversation. To my eyes BB really is very beautiful and I love the buff color. Jeri and HU thank you for reminding me what this rose looks like. Mine was so BUFF. No,this time this bush bloomed pale, but most certainly, pink, Lighter than the "Manetti" pink you have shown. Its been a while but I feel so confident I have never planted a grafted rose. Then I cant say 100%. Like you are saying about color changing with heat or cold I am thinking some color is not expressed or over expressed due to acute stress....Waiting for blooms hoping Japanese beetles dont eat the buds....

  • jerijen

    Well, I think it's rather strange -- but I don't think a sport is out of the question. I sure wish I could see it.

    HU-455777712 What you have there is a minor bit of botrytis on the outer petals of the blooms. You would see this on the outer petals ... and only in cool weather.


  • shebabee

    HU-455777712 -- your photo shows exactly what I was trying to describe in my post above. That's what I saw, for the first/only time, a few weeks ago on only one small cluster of my BB's blooms.

  • jerijen

    OK. THAT is botrytis.
    I'm quite familiar with it, because our climate has always been cool and humid. In that sort of weather, many rose blooms will show that pink mottling on their outer petals.
    If THAT is what Katyajini saw, the puzzle is solved. It's a fungal disease. But one that will disappear, when the weather warms up, and drys out.

  • katyajini

    Jeri, its so nice of you to take such interest in this. I dont think those flowers had botrytis. What a fool I was not to take a D--- picture. Waiting patiently for blooms!!! The plant, though still so scrawny looks very healthy.

  • Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley

    Jeri, did you see the pics of Ginger Syllabub on the other site? I wouldn't have believed they could be the same flower changing over the years.

  • shebabee

    Aha! Thank you, Jeri -- so that's what was going on with my BB. Surprised I haven't noticed this before, given that most of the time, it's foggy and cool.

  • katyajini

    Finally my BB bloomed again from early August. The blooms are an incontrovertible PINK.







    These are on the old cane on which I had seen pink flowers previously. There was a new cane but that broke off in a storm. Dont know what to make of it! Every truss of blooms is PINK. No buff to be seen anywhere.

  • shebabee

    I'm probably wrong, but even aside from the coloration, this doesn't look at all like Buff Beauty. The foliage, the buds, the flower form -- looks like a completely different rose.

    katyajini thanked shebabee
  • Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley

    That's reminding me of Clotilde Soupert.

    katyajini thanked Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
  • Paul Barden

    That’s definitely not Buff Beauty.

    katyajini thanked Paul Barden
  • jerijen

    Now that I see this new picture, I agree. It does not appear to be Buff Beauty.

    katyajini thanked jerijen
  • katyajini

    Thank you ..... Well then what is it? I for my life I cannot remember planting anything of that kind other than BB. Clotilde Soupert? Nooo.

    Please maybe someone can post the leaves/canes/stems...I will go out soon and take some pictures of mine.

  • katyajini thanked Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
  • dublinbay z6 (KS)

    I agree--that is not Buff Beauty.

    Here are two pics of my BB in its less "buff" stage--picks up apricot tones (the pic is emphasizing the coral shade a bit too much--"apricot-peach" highlight might be a better description).




    I'm curious now what your rose really is. Good luck in your search.

    Kate

    katyajini thanked dublinbay z6 (KS)
  • Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley

    Sheila, my initial thought was Bubble Bath, but mine never shows any pink. Hmmmm.

    katyajini thanked Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
  • mustbnuts zone 9 sunset 9

    That rose reminds me of Sharifa Asma as far as the coloring goes. Leaves do not look the same to me, however.

    katyajini thanked mustbnuts zone 9 sunset 9
  • katyajini thanked mustbnuts zone 9 sunset 9
  • Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley

    Do you have a record of planting any other hybrid musk's? Sometimes they look so similar.

    katyajini thanked Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
  • Lilyfinch z9a Murrieta Ca

    Prosperity or pink prosperity? I haven’t grown either of them so just a guess . Something that could have happened , was whoever you bought from could have accidentally stuck a wrong cutting in your pot , they grew up together and this one is only now showing you her face?

    I’m going to look on ARe website to see what they offer that looks close . Gotta love a good mystery! :)

    katyajini thanked Lilyfinch z9a Murrieta Ca
  • Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley

    There is something about the dark stamens that reminds me of prosperity. Good idea Lily Finch to look on the aare site. I think we can probably eliminate Cornelia and Felicia looking at the buds. I should probably just go out in my yard and take a look at mine compared to these leaves. And buds. I'll try and remember to do that tomorrow.

  • Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR

    Look at HMF for good Bubble Bath photos, Katya. It is a wonderful rose. My Bubble Baths have a pink start and turn white here, Vapor, just like her photo.

    katyajini thanked Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
  • katyajini

    Kate, from your picture, and everyone else, indeed this rose is not BB.

    Clotilde Soupert and Sharifa Asma, though the coloring is similar, those roses have weight, these flowers are light, small and delicate. This one is not CS or SA.


    I am posting a few pictures of the rest of this rose:


    The canes are beautifully lax:





    the thorns:



    some leaves:









    Does this speak to anyone?


    Sheila I looked up HMF closely. This plant is a dead ringer for BB (Bubble Bath). Same acronym too. You do know your roses.


    Is Bubble Bath fragrant? This rose has beautiful fragrance.


    I feel like crawling under my bed. (Thats what my dog does when she is profoundly embarrassed or sad. I know how she feels). I do not, DO NOT, remember planting Bubble Bath. Then what do I know.


    let me sit with this for a while. lets see if there is any other in put.

  • Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley

    I'll take a look at mine when I get home. It's a lovely rose and is currently in bloom. FIY, Clotilde Soupert has small flowers not much larger than BubbleBath. It's a polyantha, so small flowers. However, yours is definitely not CS due to the thorns. BB definitely has thorns! Let me dig up a pic of mine last when it was in a pot. I've never taken any since planting it for some reason. Your rose has Hybrid Musk written all over it. Here are those pic






    King at these photos I think you have bubble bath but I'll have to take some pictures of the buds to see if they match yours and also a closer look at the shape of the thorns. I'll try and take some today to see what it's doing now.

    katyajini thanked Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
  • Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley

    Thunderstorming, so no more pics today. : (( Sorry. Hope mine helped and excuse the VR snafus. OT, just need to vent on Houzz!!! WTH!!!! It was bad enough when they re-directed my bookmark to "my topics" instead of the rose forum on my phone. Now they are doing it on my laptop! WHY????? I'm not generally an angry, violent person, but their stupidity has really riled me up today.

  • Paul Barden

    'Bubble Bath' is intensely fragrant - very sweet and powerful. Blooms are less than 2" across each, and the color is a delicate translucent pink that fades quite quickly to off white. It has very soft, long-ish canes and under the right circumstances, could be trained as a small climber of sorts.

    For me, 'Clotilde Soupert' has smaller, more double blooms on a much more compact, rounded bush. Definitely not the long caned type Polyantha.


    Your rose is certainly something from the 'Blush Noisette/Hybrid Musk' section of the family.

    katyajini thanked Paul Barden
  • Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley

    Between the raindrops I looked at my BBath and it is, indeed, a pale pink, especially the bottom petals, which fades to white. It had a subtle, but sweet fragrance. Let's just forget I ever mentioned CS. I was just going by the flowers before noticing the habit and, of course, I was comparing it to my Cl.CS for that. In any case, its blooms are more double.

    On BBath, I noticed the thorns higher up on the canes, some of which were getting quite thick. Perhaps if this was an online order, you could look up your purchases.

    katyajini thanked Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
  • Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR

    The purveyor could have sent Bubble Bath by mistake regardless of what you ordered Katya. We have all had that happen.

    katyajini thanked Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
  • Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley

    Sheila, that's so true. I've read where one nursery would do this and send a rose next to it alphabetically so maybe they just said BB. However, I think it's BBath after looking at mine. I'd consider that a good mistake, although I still want Buff Beauty myself. : ))

    katyajini thanked Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
  • katyajini

    Thank you so much for taking this much interest in my little question. I have come to terms that my rose bush is not BBeauty. it is BBath or something very, very close. Here is something that continues to bother me a little. Right in that position I saw buff colored roses, its still vivid in my minds eye. I have pictures somewhere. Maybe its what Lily is saying. There were two cuttings? Then why did I not see BBath before? Its not that important anymore, since it is not BBeauty turning pink. I can enjoy this is rose. You guys are terrific.

  • Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR

    In my garden, Katya, Bubble Bath is much more vigorous in a good way than Buff Beauty. Maybe your Buff Beauty faded off or died and Bubble Bath was another cutting that took over. It is a mystery for sure. Thanks to you and Paul Barden I have now smelled my Bubble Bath and Paul is right, it is wonderfully fragrant. I am allergic, so I don't lead with my nose, but was I missing out. Now, I'll smell it often, thanks to you both.

    katyajini thanked Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
  • Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley

    Another thing about Bubble Bath is that is has little barbs on the bottom of the leaflets. It's a surprise sometimes (and not in a good way! ) : )) I agree with Sheila BBath is vigorous. I had many roses fade away to almost nothing or die completely in this particular bed, but BubbleBath is thriving along with Belinda, Pink Pet, Chuckles and formerly Felicia.

    I'm sure it's all our pleasure to help you and fun to solve a mystery. I would never have the garden I do without all the help I've received. It's an amazing community and as Sheila mentioned, you've already contributed by bringing its many attributes to the fore. : ))

    katyajini thanked Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
  • katyajini

    :) :) :) :)

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