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katyajini

Blooms on old, new, old + new growth?

7 years ago

What do these three terms mean? I think for all of my roses, there is growth from last year and in spring there are fresh shoots coming off that growth and at the tips of some of these bear flowers. So is that blooms on old or new or old +new?

Please explain that to me someone and if you have examples that would be great!

Thanks!

Comments (5)

  • 7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    While many spring flowering shrubs set their flower buds the previous year, roses are not among them. Once bloomers bloom on laterals that come off of canes that existed the previous year. In that sense they bloom on 'new' wood, since the laterals are new. However, the main canes were produced the previous year.

    Reblooming roses also have the ability to bloom on canes that grew entirely that same year.

    katyajini thanked mad_gallica (z5 Eastern NY)
  • 7 years ago

    Yes, flowers from the fresh growth as you describe is flowering on new wood. Flowering only on old wood was beneficial for types from short growing seasons when the resources and weather were right for reproduction. Think those from areas with deep, cold winters and areas where the rains come during a short season and the rest of the year is either very hot and dry, or cold and dry. Many of these types are also deciduous, they lose their foliage during the coldest (or, in cases such as R. Minutifolia, they go summer dormant and bare) times then rapidly regrow the foliage when the warmer, rainy weather arrives. Most species roses fall in to this group as do Albas, Hybrid Chinas, Gallicas, Damasks, Centifolias, early Mosses.


    More evergreen types (except things like Banksiaes and Laevigata) have the ability to flower not only on some of that old wood, but also on growth which they have just produced. Many Bourbons, Hybrid Perpetuals, Portlands, later Mosses, Chinas, Teas, most Noisettes, most Hybrid Musks, Hybrid Teas, polyanthas, floribundas, miniatures (most) and many shrubs are either remontant, meaning they will flower in spring, then at some time later in the growing season, or they are more reliably "repeat flowering", meaning they cycle regularly or even continuously during that season.


    There is bound to be confusion in all of this due to climate and weather. Banksiae flowers when the weather is very "spring-like". When the really hot, dry weather arrives, like almost all once-flowering types, it stops flowering and just grows. Plant it where "spring" lasts for months and it responds by flowering for months, leading some to think they've found a "repeat blooming Banksiae". Nope, as with every other response from every other plant, it is simply responding to the conditions it encounters. Purezza is a Banksiae hybrid which flowers repeatedly...unless you live where it remains cool, then it might not flower at all. The hotter it is, the more Purezza flowers.


    Shrubs, get ready for a headache. "Shrub" simply means a bush type of growth. Anything which does not generate the overly long "climbing" canes is a shrub. In a harsher climate, quite a few "climbers" grow like "shrubs". In endless summer climates, many shrubs grow like "climbers". Many once flowering types will "repeat" their bloom in cool climates where the spring-like conditions continue for months. What's particularly surprising is many of those which flower on old wood, WILL flower on new shoots they produce in cool weather. Quite a few which require the warmth to flower, won't flower where and when it's too cool. You may be surprised to witness how many "repeat flowering" types which don't repeat because the heat/warmth doesn't last long enough.

    katyajini thanked roseseek
  • 7 years ago

    Thank you both!!!


    roseseek what a complete and comprehensive answer for me. You speak like you teach this everyday. Now all I have to do is watch what my roses are doing carefully. I did not know at all about flowering taking such strong cues from the weather. A propos I have a giant pale pink rambler that came with our house. In 19 years I have never seen it rebloom. This year I am seeing some scattered rebloom now. I have no idea what brought that on. Global warming???


    I am glad I asked the question.

  • 7 years ago

    Maybe that’s why I saw Banksiaes flowering all over Western Washington state on our road trip. It never turns hot and dry up there. Here, in 9a inland SoCal, Banksiae are over by mid-May.

  • 7 years ago

    You're welcome, Katyajini! Thank you! Yes ma'am, WATCH what your plants of all kinds do. They are the best teachers. They are who taught the farmers who wrote the Farmer's Almanac. Unfortunately, like most "recipes", they had to make it dummy proof by committing it to a calendar. WE are the only ones who follow a watch or calendar. Everything else follows the amount of light, amount of dark, light levels and intensity, amount of water, heat and cold and how many hours of each, etc. When all of those conditions occurred at about the same dates, that worked. They don't happen like that in most places now, so.... When I worked in Pacific Palisades, people would walk into the nursery in March demanding tomatoes. "My dad in Van Nuys, planted tomatoes every March..." Yup, March in Van Nuys was usually in the mid eighties and above with warmer nights. In The Palisades, right on the beach, it was in the low sixties during the day and even colder and wetter at night. Perfect conditions for Early Blight with tomatoes. Then "winters" got warmer and the last one I experienced in Encino frequently had days in the eighties.... Yes, "things" are changing and they ARE different.


    I knew I would definitely see changes moving from zone 10a back to 9b (this time, the Central Coast instead of the Santa Clarita Valley) and I definitely did. The first four full years saw once-flowering types flower for MONTHS, then it got "hot" (for here, our average temp is 75) and they stopped. Twice, it cooled and rained again and the once-bloomers went off a second time. This year, it hasn't really gotten "hot" yet and many things continued flowering while those requiring "heat", didn't begin flowering until NOW. Everything is confused.


    Yes ma'am, Sylvia, the Banksias and Fortunianas here are STILL flowering and have been for the past six months. I grew VI Fortuniana in hopes of being able to root it for stocks and bud things on it as I did in Encino. It wouldn't grow but refused to stop flowering. I bought rooted VI Fortuniana stocks and budded them. It was too cold to push them into growth. I finally gave it to Grace Flower Farm in Santa Ynez for her to use for stocks. There, it will explode. Here it looked like a larger flowered white polyantha.

    katyajini thanked roseseek