kouklitsa159

HUGE lighting and cabinet design issue for new build Kitchen

Joanna
August 18, 2019

Last night as I was looking for two pendant lights for above our island I realized that the pendant lights will definitely interfere with the view of the wood range hood. How do I fix this? Do I move the range to the right? Would that make the kitchen look uneven and lopsided?

Island configuration is dishwasher to the left of the sink. Garabage to the right of the sink if you are standing in front of it. Island size will be 80 x ~55.



*****Please note that the island has been moved much closer to the gas stove.




Comments (48)

  • Joanna

    I was hoping the lights would frame the stove like this photo from Studio Mcgee.


  • Shannon_WI

    What about not getting pendant lights at all, and just have well-placed recessed cans? Would solve this problem.

    Also, not what you asked, and hard to know how accurate your posted rendering is, but I would make the hood 6” wider than the range. For two reasons: because it will be more effective at capturing cooking effluent, and second, because it will look more proportional visually. Wait, a third reason, the two teeny spaces on either side between the hood and the flanking upper cabinets aren’t doing you any favors.

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  • GreenDesigns

    Skip the pendants. Too many focal points equals too busy for the eyes. It’s the too many clowns in the circus bit. Your eyes can’t absorb it.

  • suzyq53

    If you get clear glass pendants it won't look as obtrusive as it does in the mockup where they look white. The alternative is not to use pendants and just can lighting.

  • houssaon

    It looks like you have enough room to move the range over.

  • jkm6712

    Remember you will only see the lights framing the hood when you stand in one spot. Three steps to the left or right, and the lights will be 'in front' of the hood. Function before form, especially in a working kitchen!

  • suzyq53

    Its pretty common for the pendants to not frame the hood. These lights look fine to me.


    Traditional Kitchen · More Info


  • GreenDesigns

    Also, that kitchen needs WAY more light than decorative pendants or recessed over the island will provide. You need a whole lighting plan to give a lot more general lighting.

  • bikertoni

    suzyq53 perfect example of kitchen in which the lights are not aligned to hood. The lights should be placed based on function first and using fixtures will glass looks best.

  • Joanna

    This is the can lights plan right now. After they throw the electrical wires up I can get a better idea if we need more can lights.

  • Joanna

    I guess I was hoping there was a way to light up the lights and oven so it’s more aesthetically pleasing.

  • Joanna

    GreenDesigns please see lighting above. The post was just about the pendant lights.

  • Joanna

    Shannon_WI Love that idea!

  • GreenDesigns

    Not enough lighting on that plan. For sure.

  • jkm6712

    Photo taken from center of room:


    Took a step to the left:


    To center everything, I would have had to reduce the island width by a foot, leaving me with a bank of 6" drawers and the paper towels on the countertop instead of having a dispenser under the counter.

  • tatts

    This isn't a museum; it's a work space. And unless you're putting a viewing stand in the living room, it isn't viewed from one point.

  • Joanna

    Tatts A kitchen to me should be the showstopping room of the home for guests. Symmetry and balance is important in a good design in my opinion.

  • tatts

    But it's a living space--used and viewed from many locations. It's not a movie set. What's important is the experience they are having with the people who are there with them. The furnishings are background.

  • Joanna

    Im thinking maybe a single would be better idea...


  • GreenDesigns

    Recessed only. No pendant.

  • Deb

    definitely not a pro, but don’t like the look of one pendant...

  • Joanna

    GreenDesigns I'd prefer a pendant. I don't just want recessed lighting. The room opens up to an 18 x 19 living room. It's not a tiny space. A pendant will help fill some of the space.


  • Joanna

    3 Pendants but maybe a slimmer profile?

    The two on the left seem to frame the hood pretty well...


  • D Nelsmama

    We had the same issue but we dropped our island on one side, and centered on the high side, I really like that height for doing some things. I have seen some islands with a butcher block lower side that looked really nice

  • chispa

    You don't need to fill every space! My kitchen and living room are both bigger than your spaces and I don't have any pendants. We had a thread months ago about pendants and it was pretty evenly split 50/50 with those with and without pendants. Many of the larger kitchens had no pendants.

    If your cabinets are as dark as shown in the rendering, then you need a lot more recessed lights.

    Are you having a kitchen table? Maybe a really nice chandelier/pendant over that?

  • D Nelsmama

    We lowered one side of. The island and centered the light on the high side. The low side is great for some tasks

  • Joanna

    chispa Did you see the layout way up top? I do have some can lights planned but I'm probably going to have to add more when the electrician begins placing just the wires on the ceiling!


    There is a kitchen nook to the right. I posted pictures on this thread. https://www.houzz.com/discussions/5763459/new-build-kitchen-design-colour-choices-dark-blue-farmhouse-kitchen



  • Joanna

    D Nelsmama Wow! What a great idea! You're kitchen looks amazing! What do you use that space on the right for?

  • PRO
    JAN MOYER

    When you looked at the floor plan ................long before the kitchen plan came to reality, HOW did you think you'd have symmetry in lights in front of the range? ( your posted plan with the red marker dots )

    Go back and look at what you posted. That plan was in front of you, long before this.

    Now that you've moved the island "Much closer to the range". what is the clearance between fridge and island?

    How far along is the kitchen, cabinets are built, the kitchen is vented for the hood? etc???

    I doubt you'll be able to move the range at this point ................and you'd have to lose the pocket door.

    You needed a lot more cook wall width to get the look you wanted with an L shaped kitchen. Quite a bit ore............

  • D Nelsmama

    Joanna,
    Thanks it is still work in progress. The low side is opposite the sink and dishwasher, there are four drawers This is where I have dinner plates, glasses so I do not have to go far to unload it works wonderful

  • Joanna

    JAN MOYER Clearance on both side of the island is now 45 inches. We are just before electrical and plumbing They haven't started yet. We are in the planning stages. We are not loosing the pocket door. It needs to stay as the other side is the mudroom/laundry and we want to keep that noise out while in the kitchen and living room.


    the back wall with the oven is 162.5 inches. The wall to the left with the fridge is 150". For the size of the home 2,077 square feet it was the right size for us. When we were planning the kitchen the pendants were the last thing on my mind, unfortunately.


    Do you have any suggestions to help the problem?

  • PRO
    JAN MOYER

    Where is your cad kitchen plan? Not a glam rendering, the actual cad with dimensions. To get what you WANT? A major re work, before cabinets are ordered, plumbing and electrical and venting are in place.

    It would be helpful if you post the entire floor, not just the kitchen. Otherwise the solution is recessed, or a bit of asymmetry : )

  • Joanna

    The change in the space for the walkthrough is changing to 45 already discussed via email with the designer. The island size is also changing. to the 80 x 55 discussed above. I have an appointment with her on Tuesday to go over everything in detail.

  • suzyq53

    There is no way to for the hood to be centered on the large island. And therefore, no way for the pendants to flank the hood. You can discuss that all you want but its not going to change. Jan is right. If you want pendants, you can center the sink on the island and space the pendants evenly to either side of the sink but one pendant will be almost directly in front of the hood. You could replace the hood with an insert in a millwork surround which would maybe look less asymetrical to you. Or move the range and hood to the other wall. Or some kind of flush mount or semi flush fixture centered in the room. Or plan on adding more cans in a grid for the whole area.

  • PRO
    JAN MOYER

    Hon,

    I think the pendants are probably the least of the issues. I see a LOT of red flags that go far beyond pendant symmetry.

    You've got quite an arduous route lugging groceries to the fridge and kitchen in general

    You've got a deep house, and your kitchen may be dim, even if this is southern exposure. Light will be dimmed from a covered porch beyond the living room, and even the nook light will not deeply penetrate the kitchen.. You definitely want under cabinet lighting!!

    I'm uncertain how your range hood is even being vented to the exterior, or IF it is vented through the ceiling, or simply a recirculating insert.

    Topping it off, you've got a plan for dark cabinetry and island. You're framed, you're at lighting, and there isn't anything you can do that gets you your "inspo" picture. Your stair prevents any adjustment to positioning of the wall and entry from the garage, and it would be a radical adjustment at that.

    I think you'll need plenty of light, so play up the asymmetry with something more "architectural" and intentionally "off". Or just keep it as light as air.........like the Curry in first pic below. You'll see right through.



    I wish you'd "seen" the issues coming, and all I can say is you didn't. : ) You're not alone, few can "see" the consequences of their plans, flat on a piece of 24 x 36 paper from a builder. But it keeps designers and architects in business, fixing the flaws before the house is ever framed.





  • GreenDesigns

    This whole house is going to be gloomy and dark. A better architect would not have designed in these issues. But, at least you can not contribute to them. Not adding bad decor on top of bad design, that emphasizes those mistakes, should be a first priority. You really need to hire a Designer here.

  • salex

    I would not suggest moving the range in the name of symmetry. It's best not to have your sink and range directly across from each other. I agree with the many comments that the symmetry is dependent on where you are standing in the adjacent space because cabinet/range and pendants are not in the same plane.

    If it's a truly HUGE issue to you, then the mockups showing either a single pendants (perhaps a more elongated option) or 3 pendants would be better. And I'm not sure Nelsmama's solution would work as well in your space - from your first images, it looks like dropping the counter level on the right side would create a weird height imbalance in your kitchen, even though it works in hers.

  • cpartist

    No one is ever going to be standing directly behind the island in the middle. Move left or right just a bit and it's no long "framed". That's only for magazine photographs.

    Instead of worrying about the lights framing the hood/stove, instead worry about it being balanced. You don't need it symmetrical.

    The island size is also changing. to the 80 x 55 discussed above

    Um originally it was 8' wide. If it's only 80" wide where will you prep? You won't have enough space next to the sink.

    80" - 24" (dishwasher) = 56"

    56" - 30" (minimum sink size) = 26". Minimum needed for prep space is actually 30" and that's tight. My island is 84" wide which is why I added a prep sink next to my fridge because I knew I didn't have enough room on the side of the sink on the island to prep. And I don't.

    As for lighting, I'd absolutely go with 3 lights over the counter as well as the following lights. Notice I also put a pot light right over the center of your sink. (It's the best light I put in mine.) You will need it and trust me, you'll thank me for that one. LOL


    My layout is not symmetrical but it is balanced. My back wall is 15'8".


    Also note how I have uppers only on either side of the hood which is what I suggested you do in your other thread. That will help lighten the kitchen up, especially if you do a white or light colored tile. And notice how the cabinets on my fridge wall die into the cooktop wall?

  • cpartist

    FYI, even though it doesn't look it in my photo above, the lights over the windows are centered perfectly. The lights over the island are centered perfectly over the island. Hopefully that proves the point we're all trying to make about symmetry versus balance.

  • Joanna

    cpartist That spotlight over the sink I think if I don't do you might come here and do it for me! LOL! When the wires are up I'm going to see how everything and looks and go from there for sure. Im not throwing the entire idea away. You're island space to me looks like ample space for prep and I have the sides beside the oven. From what I've read the kitchen needs to work for the cook. For me I do a lot of my chopping next to the oven. I know its bizarre but I've been cooking that way for years. I clean my food and then bring it the cutting board by the oven and sometimes on the island if I am removing veggie skins into the garbage.


    Your pendants do what Im hoping will happen in my home. The two right pendants frame the hood. Not perfectly but I does frame it.


    We will be doing a white tile for sure we just haven't decided the shape and texture yet.


    Im not sure what you mean by the term "die".

  • Joanna

    JAN MOYER


    The walkway from the garage to the kitchen is far from arduous. A lot of the shopping we do it in bulk so part of what we buy goes to the basement bulk pantry space where the deep freezer will be and part of it will go to the kitchen. With our lifestyle I would never want a house where you walk into the kitchen from the garage. The space we created is the mudroom and laundry space that guides you into the kitchen. If I had the plans to our last home you're head would spin with how bad of a set up we had. This one works perfect for the way we function as family.


    It is southern exposure. Under cabinet lights are already a part of the design plan.


    I was playing with some ideas yesterday on photoshop with airy but definitely eye catching single lights but I think the 3 lights would bring me closer to the look I am after.

    I would go for much thin profile lights than the above photo of 3.



  • Joanna

    GreenDesigns the space will be far from gloomy and dark. I've posted photos below of the space. https://www.houzz.com/discussions/5763459/new-build-kitchen-design-colour-choices-dark-blue-farmhouse-kitchen#24473186


    We don't have the budget for a designer and I've so far been able to work through quite a few design dilemmas on my own.

  • Joanna

    salex Thank you for your suggestions. Im definitely leaning towards 3 pendants!

  • Joanna

    cpartist I forgot to comment on the island. Overall the 8" would go into the nook area which would have made the space seem smaller than it is. We had to make it smaller or else the kitchen table and chair would be squished in there.

  • cpartist

    You're island space to me looks like ample space for prep

    Sorry but it's not.

    and I have the sides beside the oven. From what I've read the kitchen needs to work for the cook. For me I do a lot of my chopping next to the oven. I know its bizarre but I've been cooking that way for years. I clean my food and then bring it the cutting board by the oven and sometimes on the island if I am removing veggie skins into the garbage.

    First as I pointed out in your other thread, you don't have nearly enough space on either side of the sink to prep. At most you'll have 24". Not enough.

    I had to do it the same way by washing and then carrying it across to prep by my stove when I had my condo. Just because you've done it that way forever, doesn't make it the most efficient way to do something. Humans are very adaptable and can get used to anything. So much so that they don't think there's a better way.

    The reason in the other thread I highly recommended you add a prep sink next to your fridge is because doing it that way is so much easier and neater. How do I know? I have my prep sink next to my fridge. It's now so much more efficient way to cook.

    After you bring it to the cutting board, it means when you're done cutting, you have to then bring the cutting board across the aisle to dump the scraps. Wouldn't it be nicer and easier to have a place to dump (sink if you can have a disposal or trash next to sink if you can't) right next to where you prep and wash?

    Your pendants do what Im hoping will happen in my home. The two right pendants frame the hood. Not perfectly but I does frame it.

    It all depends where in the kitchen you stand. :)

    Im not sure what you mean by the term "die".

    Take a look at my upper cabinets on the right side. They go straight to the back wall and end. That's what I mean. No useless corner cabinet turning the corner.

    It is southern exposure

    But it is not direct southern exposure which is what we keep trying to explain to you. Once windows go in, the roof is on, and walls are up, your house will not look as bright and open as it does today.

    Additionally in my old condo we had direct west windows which meant every afternoon, especially in winter, the light came shining directly into my floor to ceiling sliders in my dining room. As I mentioned, my kitchen was only 11' from those windows and the light NEVER reached into the kitchen. South light is never as direct into a window as west light so even less will enter.

    That is why Alison and I are suggesting that you at least get rid of some of the uppers. If you make all the lowers drawers, you'll need less uppers anyway.
    cpartist I forgot to comment on the island. Overall the 8" would go into the nook area which would have made the space seem smaller than it is. We had to make it smaller or else the kitchen table and chair would be squished in there.

    I do understand but then you need to adjust elsewhere and the way to do that is to add a prep sink. My prep sink is only 18" but it works beautifully and then all I have to do is slide the food over to the cooktop.

    This would also allow for someone to help clean up as you prep, or to help rinse other stuff and bring it to you or to help teach kids to cook when they're old enough

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