Thank you. I detest car shopping because of the pricing games.

I've read someone say about Bragg that he has a conpiracy theorist's mindset about the auto industry, but I think there's much validity in what he has to say about their tactics. It appears there is simply no way to know what true "invoice" price is, or how much you should pay above/below that amount. This really makes me realize how gullible we collectively are as consumers. We buy into what we read on sites like Kelley Blue Book, Edmunds, Truecar, etc., and those are for-profit companies that are supported BY the auto industry.

Mtnrdredux said that about the dealer's invoice price on your other thread; that it was as inflated as the MSRP.

Yes, I know she did. And this article series greatly expands on that.

I used a website that rates online deals. Bad, fair, good, great. I only looked at great deals. I found the car I wanted with all upgrades online and then went to a local dealer. They wouldn't come anywhere close to the online price. I purchased the online car. It was 8k cheaper. I traveled from Chicago to NY to get the deal and spent 1k in travel expenses. Airline tickets and hotel. I did not actually buy the car until I was able to personally inspect it and was willing to walk away if it did not meet my specifications. I would go this route again in a heartbeat. The dealership tried to make up the great deal online price with less than stellar financing. I arrived with a check prepared to make the purchase. I would not consider dealer financing.