adayinthegarden48

Sparrieshoop in Cold Zones

Will it likely be a shrub or a climber in my cold snowy winter, hot dry summer, z5? I finally got one, but at a price I will never pay again. And, with thorns like these, I hope to never have to move it. So, this one has to be planted appropriately.

Comments (14)

  • nanadollZ7 SWIdaho

    Flowers, I'd heard of this rose, but hadn't the faintest idea of what it looked like. So to HMF I went, and found Sparrieshoop to be quite lovely, reminding me a lot of Dainty Bess. But it sounds like this rose gets big, so it's out for me. I hope you get more info. Didn't you mention that Dainty Bess can't survive your winters? Diane

    flowersaremusic z5 Eastern WA thanked nanadollZ7 SWIdaho
  • flowersaremusic z5 Eastern WA

    Diane, Dainty Bess is still alive. She blooms a little, but hasn't grown since I planted her 5/6 years ago. I became interested in Sparrieshoop in the Roses of Yesterday and Today catalog back in the 80s, but never ordered her because of her size. She's been in the back of my mind all these years. When I saw that Grace Roses had her this spring, I went for it. Their prices make Heirloom look like Pic 'n Save, but I didn't see it offered anywhere else. From all the hype and photos, I expected a good size plant, and was surprised it's no more than band size in the same size pot RU uses. I think it was around $66 with shipping. Never again. It does look healthy and the package included a baggie with 1/2 c. of plant food. The kicker is she is available from several other nurseries now with normal pricing.

    Oldrosarian used to grow it, but I haven't seen her post in awhile. I've about decided to grow her as a shrub where I just removed Ghislaine de Feligonde, unless someone tells me that's not a good idea.

  • Related Discussions

  • nanadollZ7 SWIdaho

    Flowers, oh boy, $66 for a rose. I really hope it does well for you. My Twig Darby, from an out of state seller, cost me as much or more than Edwards here in Boise charges for a 5 gallon Abe in official Austin pot. I guess I learned a lesson. I figured Grace would be super expensive. It's been interesting watching Helen's thread about the Palatine orders forum members made today. I wasn't surprised at what sold out first. Years ago I wanted Black Caviar (Grafin von Hardenberg in your Tantau catalog). But Lynn formerly of Las Vegas, now Texas, grew it and had problems, so I decided I really didn't want it that badly. And Biedermeier, which is in the Tantau catalog didn't look so hot on HMF. I hope those roses don't prove disappointing. Leo is availiable from Austin on Dr Huey which is what I want. Hortico has him, too. Well, I went off topic. I think you're wise to assume Sparrieshoop will grow as a shrub in your climate. HMF says it's hardy to 4b. Diane

    flowersaremusic z5 Eastern WA thanked nanadollZ7 SWIdaho
  • Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley

    Flowers, did you get a discount from Grace? I remember when she initially posted she said that Garden web member would get some sort of discount. I think it was 10 or 15%. I've always loved that Rose myself at such a sweet looking thing. May I ask why you removed gdf? I'm really loving that Roost this year mine is coming into its own and Bloom to beautifully in the spring. I'm hoping to get a fall flush. I've yet to see any buds though.

    flowersaremusic z5 Eastern WA thanked Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
  • flowersaremusic z5 Eastern WA

    Diane, I must clarify what I said above. In my original question, I had forgotten about the rose being replaced at no charge, then in trying to shorten my post just above, I edited out that Grace refunded my money for the first one and eventually sent me a replacement at no charge. I don't mean to be misleading. Here's the story: The first plant arrived via Fed Ex dry as a bone. Foliage was crispy and a fist size wad of dirt around the fist size root ball was hard as concrete. The roots were broken off from the cane and the whole thing was in a bunch of pieces. I was at a loss trying to figure out how that mess could have ended up in a box for mailing. It literally looked like something dug out of the trash. I emailed photos to them and Ryan, who takes care of the correspondence, was very nice. He said they were sold out, but if another one became available, he would send it to me, which he did. The second one didn't look much better, but it was all in one piece. The soil they plant in is heavy as lead, even when dry. I didn't hold out much hope for it, but it has grown and appears to be a good specimen. I had two other roses I was waiting for availability that I cancelled after I saw what they were sending. They were very nice and this was their first (and last, I understand) time selling mail order rose plants.

    Vapor, I didn't know about the discount until after I ordered.

    I was talked into Ghislaine by the first owner of Northland because he liked it and I'm a push over. The color was very pale yellow that faded to white. I was never sure it was really GdF because it just looked a little 'off' from online photos. Mine was wider than tall until this year when a bunch of canes in the middle shot straight up and the rest of the bush was low and shrubby. It looked so odd, I thought that was a good time to give it the heave ho. I've seen pics of others that are really beautiful with some peach or pink tones, but mine wasn't much to look at.

  • Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley

    That's too bad about GdF. Mine is a gem in a very difficult spot, but I'm growing her as a climber up a tall -facing wall. She is responding to that well, but there may be too much shade going into the fall for another good flush. Perhaps once I fell the volunteer trees.

    I didn't realize Grace had decided to focus on cut flowers. I was wondering why I couldn't find any info on her plants. From the sounds of it, it was a wise decision because with such poor plants her reputation would soon suffer. It is odd to deliver that sort of plant for such a high price. Don't beat yourself up over it. It often seems the roses on which I've spent the most have done the worst in my garden...... I'm looking at you Dark Desire! : ((

    flowersaremusic z5 Eastern WA thanked Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
  • flowersaremusic z5 Eastern WA

    Argh! Dark Desire! I wanted that rose to thrive so badly! I bought it as a grafted 3 gal, but it didn't make it through winter here. I think it does well for others in my zone. I even thought the white streak in some of the petals was appealing. Does yours do that? Some don't like it.

    Sounds like you have GdF in a good spot. It's on my shade tolerant list, and I have a photo of it from an old Garden Web post that we can't access anymore. Here's a link to another GW discussion for shade tolerant yellow climbers where Christopher refers to the same discussion I can't access: https://www.houzz.com/discussions/4731962/yellow-climber-for-part-shade-in-z6a-5b#n=46 Less sunlight might be why it has those peach and pink tones. The caption said it was in deep shade.

    If anyone knows who to credit with this beautiful photo of GdF, please let me know.


  • Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley

    Mine has the streaks from time to time, but I like them. Mine died to the ground except in its first (mild) winter. It has a tall gangly growth habit which makes it suitable to slot into small spaces where one wants a taller flower. Having come to terms with this, I'm surround mine with shorter roses to hide her faults. I still recommend her even if she BSs for me. : ((

    I'll try to post a few pics of my GdF if Houzz cooperates!

    flowersaremusic z5 Eastern WA thanked Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
  • sharon2079

    flowersaremusic, I have Dark Desire and I think it is tough plant.... I am not sure what it is zoned for, but the reason I think it is tough is that is doing quite well on own root here in south Florida where nematodes are plentiful. It is even outdoing some of my roses on fortuniana. It is a large vigorous plant. Sometimes large canes like to lean over in the summer. When they do, it thinks it is a climber and tries to put out laterals. It has nice blooms and scent, but NASTY thorns.

    flowersaremusic z5 Eastern WA thanked sharon2079
  • flowersaremusic z5 Eastern WA

    Sharon, I believe Dark Desire is rated to z5, and should have lived, but it was grafted, so didn't come back from the roots. It produced beautiful, huge blooms that season, but died it's first winter. I thought about replacing it, but have had such bad luck trying second and third times with others that I just never did. I do remember those thorns. Shakespeare 2000 ended up in Dark D's spot.

  • Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley

    Flowers, how is S2000 in relation to DD. I'm always looking to move mine (DD) elsewhere, but haven't found a suitable replacement that always has some bloom. I tried Milano, but it's too orange. Bordeaux might work, but it's too young to tell as is Valentine. I've set my sites on Barcelona, but again it's a wisp of a thing. Even Maggie.

    flowersaremusic z5 Eastern WA thanked Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
  • flowersaremusic z5 Eastern WA

    Totally different in bloom, plant form and, well, everything. Dark D was upright and stiff, Shakespeare is shorter and flexible. DD, hybrid tea, Shakespeare, shrub. DD had a complex scent, strong and I liked it very much. Shakespeare is definitely an old rose scent, my favorite, also strong. Can't say which blooms more since I only had DD one season, but it was a good bloomer, as is Shakespeare. DD's blooms were darker, but Shakespeare's ages to just as dark.

    I didn't set out to replace DD with S. I had ordered S from Northland, but when I went to pick up my order, Carol said the S she was sent was a poor little fella, a weakling that she hesitated to sell. So, I chose Tess of the d'Urbervilles instead. I still had DD at the time. The following year when I was at Northland, Carol asked if I still wanted the pitiful little thing from the year before. He had grown into a handsome bard. She wouldn't charge me. I was thrilled to bring my poet home. He's next to Eglantyne, and she dwarfs him just a bit, but he's holding his own and I love the contrast of the colors together.

    If none of the ones you mentioned work out, have you thought about HalloBlondie's Canadian Shield? It looks like a very nice red and is hardy to z3.

  • sharon2079

    vaporvac..... I don't think you can really can compare dark desire to barcelona.... at least fairly.... barcelona doesn't grow nearly as fast as DD.... you can't bend them..... but they eventually lean over and out out laterals like a climber. If he doesn't do this, he only blooms on the very top... whereas Barcelona is a bushy shape rose, with twiggy stems.... he puts out a lot more flowers. DD has a traditional hybrid tea bloom where barcelona is more blousey..... Both have good scent, but I think Barcelona is much stronger and the scent can waft through the entire garden. If Barcelona is happy (mine is much happier in a pot, but I have neamatode) he blooms more often at least here in Florida.

  • Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley

    I can't wait Sharon!

Need help with an existing Houzz order? Call 1-800-368-4268