That’s extremely difficult to read, and most people here aren’t fluent in metric. Can you draw it with a pencil, add some labels, and some dimensions in inches? You’ll get a lot more help.

Thanks for the feedback. I've changed all measurements to inches, and removed bits you don't need, and made the font a little larger. The colours aren't exactly as I'd choose, I'm printing from Excel and then scanning, and the scanner is rubbish. The large square top left (taking up nearly a quarter of the whole drawing), around the dining table, is meant to simply highlight the dining area.

cb = cupboard

Brilliant! Except it didn’t attach. Wait for the image to load completely. Sometimes takes a while ;-)

Bigger islands seem to be on trend, so, unless you need seating at a peninsula, I'd extend the island (plan on left). In that plan, you won't have access to the cabinet in the corner when the DW door is open, so dishes will need to go to the right of the sink (unless you unload to the counter, close the DW door, then load to cabinets.

If no window is involved, you might consider m/l flipping the range and sink, to provide a separate cleanup/dish storage zone, with no zone crossing (plan on right).

I struggled with this choice and ultimately decided that having the island clear of obstructions was more important, but since my husband and I do likely to cook together, I opted for a really large sink (Kohler Stages 45). It’s big enough for two people to work at (some people get two faucets) and has excellent prep sink functionality (metal shelf, fitted cutting board, prep bowls, etc.).

Thank you so much mama goose for taking the time to upload a picture with your suggestions.

I don't plan to have seating at the peninsula, it would just be to give a finish to the kitchen and provide a little extra workspace near the cooker.

Many islands I see have stools along one side as you've shown, but I don't really like them like that. They look nice when not in use, but if 4 - 6 of us sit there to eat or drink, we'll be in a line and you won't be able to see half the people you're talking to. You also don't get a view of the garden if seated like that. I'd rather we sat around one end. I don't see the disadvantage of having the seats as I've shown?

A primary prep area and shared trash sounds good - we don't want to be emptying multiple bins (other than the recycling was already have). I do in fact need to put the recycling in the kitchen, it will be easier and neater, but there's lot's of room for that.

Part of the reason we have the range lower on the right, with the cleanup sink higher on the right, is that it puts unwashed items further away from the rest of the room, and less in view.

I'll spend some more time looking at your drawings and thinking - thanks again :)

I do not find that to work well with 2 people BTW. You are better of with 2 sinks since prep and clean up never work at the same sink. We have 2 back to back sinks in our island one on the prep side withnthe fridge and one on the cooking side with the range my husband or others prep while I cook . I run a catering biz from home and those 2 zones work awesome for me. So the idea of a larger island makes sense to me so that your kitchen is like a galley kitchen which BTW are very functional kitchens.

Thanks Patricia

Well we're not a careting biz, but I do like the idea of being able to clean while SO preps (and vice versa). But then I'm not the one that needs convincing :)

Re 'the idea of a larger island makes sense to me so that your kitchen is like a galley kitchen' - do you mean ditching the peninsular, and making the island even longer (it's already 9 feet long in the drawing)?

Kirsten - that is a mighty fine sink. I'm not sure how available they are over here, but I'd certainly like a decent sized sink in the clean-up area, so fit baking trays and chopping boards in. I already have a couple of nice end grain chopping boards I plan to keep.

OK I added some info to this to make it more legible, and also to point out some issues.

You can't get six people at that island. People have knees ;-) And no one is going to feel comfortable sitting in a work aisle.

Mama G makes excellent points, as usual.

Think about how things are going to open (dishwasher and range, fridges.)

The peninsula as drawn is too skinny, IMO. Maybe you want a big table down there instead. Seating six at an island just doesn't work the way people often imagine it will. If you want to sit and look at the garden, put a nice wood farm table down there instead of that tiny one.

Are there windows in the other walls? Hopefully the sink is at a window. How wide is the door near the fridge, and is the fridge really right next to it with no clearance?

Hope that helps others to see the plan, if nothing else. Do you have pictures of the space?

Thank you scottie mom!

The distances you've marked with a ? are about 4 feet (but I can adjust that, as there is plenty of space). The Fridge Freezer has 2 doors, so it doesn't open quite so far out. The cb you've put a ? by means cupboard (under counter).

Re sitting in a work isle: Sometimes it'll just be friends who pop over for a drink, and there won't be any work going on. If there is work, then those doing the work would be likely to sit in on the right stools when they've finished. If knee space is an issue to get 6 people around the island, I can make that section a little longer. But it will mainly be social area, not for big sit down meals, which will go to the dining table. Why is it that seating 6 at an island doesn't usually work as people imagine?

I'm considering putting a large table (instead of that little one) by the glass doors to enjoy the view in summer, but then move it to as shown in winter, when it's more snug and there's atmosphere from the lighting. I don't know whether that will work out or not, but my SO would like the table as shown, so we'll at least try it there.

No, there aren't windows in the other walls. I could put a frosed window by the sink (it looks to an outside path which is 3 feet wide), but it's north facing and I don't think it will add much for the extra expense (the wall exists already, so would need to be cut and, and a lintel installed).

The actual door is 8.5 feet up from the top of the drawing (with the utility room on the wall behind the fridge). The hall (for want of a better term) between the door and the kitchen is therefore 8.5 feet long, and 3 feet wide.

I don't really have pictures of the space, because it's not been built yet. The area where the kitchen goes already exists (about 11'3" wide x 13'10"), but the new total size will be 24'6" x 31'10".

I think it would be beneficial to sit down and make an actual list of your wants and needs for this space, it seems your are a little unfocused. If you don’t like island or peninsula seating then don’t have it. If you can’t justify a prep sink then don’t put one in... How are you and the person who does most of the cooking going to use the space. Make a list of your most important needs then the rest will fall in to place.

Thanks for the feedback Jill.

It may seem that I've not come up with a list, but this design is over 10 years in the making :D I have a spreadsheet on it with 25 tabs, as well as loads of downloaded pics and ideas.

The main two things I'm unsure about is whether we should have a sink in the island, and whether we should have a peninsular. I like peninsulars, but we don't need one.

This was the primary list I had, in order of priority.

1) Bigger kitchen space, new kitchen

2) Nicer dining space - we're not going to use a separate dining room

3) Living space that gets to enjoy the light and the garden

4) TV area

I do like island seating, for either people to sit and chat while food/drinks are being made, or for people to sit and drink together, as I think the way you sit up is quite social. There might also be some meals where we eat there, but it doesn't matter if we don't. I would also be fine with peninsular seating, but I don't think we need both, and I'd like some seats to have a view of the garden (which wouldn't work with a peninsular), as there will be large glass doors (22 feet x 9 feet high).

Why is it that seating 6 at an island doesn't usually work as people imagine?

Because two bodies cannot occupy the same space at the same time. I've numbered the seats. You have two bodies in the same "seat" space at both corners. Allow for 24" and don't forget that there is going to be something below that supports the island surface.

People imagine the island as a great gathering place, when a table is often more comfortable and useful. And making the island longer doesn't really help--I see kitchen designs that look better suited for a board meeting than a family gathering. Islands are all the rage these days, and you do have room for one, but I doubt that it will function as the hub of social activity that you envision.

Prep sink - a definite yes as it will make your zones more functional when you have multiple cooks and helpers. Ours is 28" on the inside and has ledges which hold a cutting board and colander so the mess is kept over the sink. I have several sizes of cutting boards that fit over it so sometimes we use it as extra serving space during a party or use it to chill drinks. It is in a 12 foot island which we use often for serving a buffet. I agree with switching the clean up sink and range so that dish storage is near your inside and outside dining areas. I like the idea of the peninsula as long as it does not push the DW into the corner, blocking the cabinets on the peninsula. Your rear wall is very long so I think that your island can be longer and would not look disproportional. With your big family you might also want to consider installing two DWs. It is one of the best things that we did after learning about it on this forum.

Because two bodies cannot occupy the same space at the same time. I've numbered the seats. You have two bodies in the same "seat" space at both corners.

Thanks. Yes I understand the point. For casual sitting, I'm not sure we need that much space. Our current dining table is 48" x 30". That sits 4 comfortably, but we usually have 6, so everyone is sharing some space. It's not ideal, but we've not had space for anything else up to this point. The island as I suggested would indeed mean sharing some space, but if it's just to sit and have a drink, then I guess it's only the knees we have to allow for. I'll have to find an island to try out. Maybe it would just be one person at the end.

People imagine the island as a great gathering place, when a table is often more comfortable and useful.

Mmm, I wonder why that is? When we go to our nearby friends house after the pub, it's the island we sit at, despite the fact that they don't have enough seats there for everyone (I know). My (limited) experience if that sofas tend to be more relaxed seating with less interaction, and dining tables tend to be a bit more formal, which is why I sometimes like sitting and chatting at islands. Tough decisions.

I do agree that you need to really think about how you cook that for sure is whthe next commentat I did. Maybe enlist the help of an actual KD not a cabinet salesperson.As for island seating we only have 2 seats because when we entertain everyone wanders around or stands around the island and if you arrange your LR properly there is no more comfy space to vist than in there since everyone lined up at the island is for sure not conducive to conversation. Think about how YOU live .We have a large LR with 2 seating areas bridgd by a long bench. I move those pieces around all the time so you will get the idea from these pictures in the next comment.

Prep sink - a definite yes as it will make your zones more functional when you have multiple cooks and helpers.

This is my feeling, but my partner isn't convinced.

I agree with switching the clean up sink and range so that dish storage is near your inside and outside dining areas.

Thanks. Looking at mama goose's drawings, I think I understand this idea - having a cleaning sections that is separate from the cooking section. What I don't like, is having the noisy dishwasher (ok, it's not that noisy, but it's not silent) and the mess (I'm not good at keeping everything clear quickly) closer to seating areas that are near the garden. Although I hadn't considered the traffic as mama goose has kindly shown, I'm still thinking that someone working with the dishwasher and clean-up sink would (and dish cupboards between sink and range) would leave room for prep, as it's quite a wide space (48"). More decisions.

I like the idea of the peninsula as long as it does not push the DW into the corner, blocking the cabinets on the peninsula.

Thanks

With your big family you might also want to consider installing two DWs. It is one of the best things that we did after learning about it on this forum.

My SO is ok with this idea. Where would you put the two dishwashers?

Thank you :)

Thanks Patricia.

You have a lovely large living room with great light and a nice view. Our living room is a good size (19'6" x 13'), but much smaller than yours (we're in a city centre).

This new room will be much larger, so we expect to be in there more often with guests.

everyone lined up at the island is for sure not conducive to conversation

Indeed, that's why I was planning for us to sit around the end of the island.

I read numerous threads of where to put both dishwashers. The overwhelming thought was to flank the clean up sink. I now see why that works best. After a party when dishes are piling onto the counter, it is easiest to organize both when they are near each other, but if I didn't have room to do that, I would've installed one next to my prep sink which is what I was originally going to do. DWs are practically silent now so it is no issue running both even when there is a crowd. And FWIW, people gather around the island whether you want them to or not.

Has your partner studied the 'New to Kitchens' thread or the NKBA guidelines. Or read this thread? There are many archived threads discussing prep sink vs. no prep sink.

(To be clear, in the plans I posted, there is no seating at the island--I thought you had two banks of back-to-back cabinets.) I would not recommend a seat on the side facing the fridge because of interference with the open fridge door.

Thank you mama goose. No, she's not into forums. I have printed off a couple of old threads regarding prep sinks and I'll print this one off too.

I was thinking of having 48" between the fridge (door, not handle) and the island. I've measured how far a chair is from a table when I'm sat at it at 19" to the back (I can get in and sit down without moving it - not saying that's how I'd get in, but it illustrates that it's not tight). That leaves 29" to the fridge, so I've put a chair 29" from the fridge and have no problem standing their and opening the door (when open, the door projects 18" from the fridge, but it goes to the side, leaving you standing with a lot of space). PS - we're not big people.

That wouldn't leave space for someone to walk past while there's someone sat down and someone with the fridge open, but I'm not expecting all those things to happen at the same time (and the drinks fridge is at the other end of the island). Someone working at the kitchen won't need to come past, and we don't stand there with the fridge door open for long.

We could have a little more than 48" between the fridge and the island if it helped, but I'm not keen on the alternative, which is to have no stools there at all.

I've made a small change to the plan to show it without the peninsular, but with a 3 foot wide, full height, double door cupboard (like a pantry I guess). I didn't like full height units elsewhere in the design, but I think it would fit here, and also provide a neat finish to the kitchen area in the absence of a peninsular. I've also lengthened the island a little to match.

Any view on whether it's better with or without the peninsular?

Thanks