If you don’t need the dishwasher, install a 24” cabinet in its place so if you do sell, it gives future buyers the option of adding one later.

If you need a smaller dishwasher, you might consider an 18" wide model. Miele has one. The drawer dishwashers are just too flaky!

I definitely want a dishwasher - I've lived without one for over 18 months and I'm not a fan. And yes, @Moxie, I am back to considering an 18" - that was my plan all along, until I thought I could do a single drawer. I'll probably do the Bosch though, not Miele.

My DishDrawer is 16+ years old. It has had a few simple repairs (all DIYed). I don't consider it "flaky" by any measure.

18" dishwashers are not a good choice ... unless one absolutely must have a dishwasher and there's absolutely no other option. They're expensive in comparison to 24" units, and tend to be more cramped on racking utility than users expect.

Anyway, sounds like the other responders have made up your mind for you. :-)

The single drawer is meant to allow for a cabinet drawer, but I don’t know if you can do one above and below (they’re usually shown with one cabinet drawer below). I would check with F&P.

I have the drawers, installed about a year ago (store installers didn’t seem to have a problem). I love them, but I will admit they haven’t worked perfectly. There are times the dishes don’t get clean, but I think that might be user area of filling them too full. I would still get them again because they work better for my space than a full size.

Thank you @dadoes - I really appreciate your appliance advice, and I can be convinced either way - don't let me give up on my dish drawer dream :) Do you also have a single drawer, or do you have the 2-drawer stack? I'm curious to hear more about why an 18" DW should be a last resort - I have looked at a few of the 18" DWs in person (in a store) and they do look cramped, but I assumed it was an optical illusion :) I guess I do have room for a 24" - well, some would say that. I have a very small kitchen (9x9 - see other thread here: link to thread ), but it's not as small as some of the micro kitchens in NYC apartments. Side note: I have to admit I like the drawers because the "cool factor" is just so high :)

@traci_from_seattle - thanks for sharing your experience! My father has the dish drawer stack too and had some issues early on with washing - after that he switched to the Finish tabs and it has gotten better.

For those that support the idea of a single dishwasher drawer, do you have ideas how I can make it work with IKEA kitchens? The DW drawer specs suggest it won't fit into the 24" base cabinet (because the DW requires a cabinet opening of 23 5/8 wide).

Would it be possible to create base cabinet that is only 5" drawers high (e.g., the cabinet box is 10" tall rather than 30"), so that it creates a solid platform with a width of 24" for the DW to rest on?

As long as you have cabinets on either side, and have carpentry skills/tools, this is not too bad of a hack. You need a solid “shelf “ to span the 24” opening and then cut down a base cabinet to the required height to fit bellow. Then you can use standard drawer glides inside and a drawer front .

However, you may not end up with enough room for a standard drawer front due to the height.

I don't know anything about this configuration personally, but what about putting a dishwasher under the sink? Here's a blog post about it... https://www.notjustahousewife.net/under-sink-dishwasher/

Also, I love my 36" Sektion all-drawer base cabinets. Strongly encourage you to use them, but I don't know why you'd want wire baskets.

My DishDrawer is a double-drawer unit.

To clarify a common misconception ... double-drawer units are not two single units stacked together. They are built as a double-drawer unit, like a two-drawer filing cabinet, and cannot be separated. Two single-drawer units could be installed in a stacked configuration but that is not the same thing as a double-drawer unit.

"what about putting a dishwasher under the sink?"

GE makes one under-the-sink dishwasher. The sink installed above it must be very shallow and you can't stand in front of the sink while loading the dishwasher which is very inconvenient.

"I don't know why you'd want wire baskets."

They're great because you can easily see everything that's stored in them and they don't gather dust.

"I love my 36" Sektion all-drawer base cabinets..."

Understood but using two 18" cabinets does allow more flexibility in internal components. For example, in one cabinet you could have several internal drawers placed close together for shallow things such as skillets and sheet pans, while in the second cabinet you could have fewer drawers spaced further apart for taller items such as bowls.

I'd still stick with the 18" or 24" dishwasher. Several manufacturers make them and you won't have to fool around with the cabinets. CR doesn't test 18" dishwashers but Bosch does well and the Bosch 300 series is $759 though the Frigidaire 1800 series is well-like by owners for $489.

wdccruise do you have Sektion cabinets?

Dish drawers are awesome. The carpentry required to stick one between drawers might be beyond the average IKEA DIYer but it would be a pretty nice layout.

They do not spit out a large amount of steam because they don't have a heated dry cycle (same as European DWs) but there will be some moisture. They (used to--probably still do) come with a sticker to apply to the underside of whatever is above them. Use it. Problem solved.

The advantage of a single drawer over an 18"er is that if required for resale, the drawer (and whatever is above/below it) can be replaced with a standard DW.

Thanks everyone for weighing in! This is tough :) In theory, the best design for my unique needs would be a single DW drawer with a 5" tall drawer above it for cutlery, and a 5" drawer below it for... whatever (napkins, saran wrap, trivets etc.). The Ikea cabinet config for this won't work as I understand it because the top drawer requires a cabinet for support, but the DW drawer can't fit in the cabinet (too wide).

Which means I could probably still do a DW drawer with two 5" drawers below it, if the base cabinet was modified to be more of a platform rather than a cabinet. This means my cutlery goes to the other side of the kitchen (a whopping 3 feet away). Or I do an 18" DW. I have mentioned many times that the 'cool' factor of the DW drawer is intoxicating. And I don't need a big dishwasher. I'm going to have to talk to my installer (who has done 1 or two Ikea kitchens before but is not an expert).

This might sound like a crazy idea but have you looked at RV size/dishwashers? Here's a link to one that is very inexpensive and it could fit under your sink if your plumbing were to one side:

https://www.amazon.com/DELLA-Dishwasher-Countertop-Portable-Dishwashers/dp/B07GBHZ73J/ref=as_li_ss_tl?keywords=DELLA+dishwasher&pd_rd_i=B07GBHZ73J&pd_rd_r=0d63c152-72e5-4f5f-a621-dde62b10dc3a&pd_rd_w=uGDQG&pd_rd_wg=29qwr&pf_rd_p=a6d018ad-f20b-46c9-8920-433972c7d9b7&pf_rd_r=JYBNJ5P4152QZFZ26NX1&qid=1559109467&s=gateway&linkCode=sl1&tag=camperism-20&linkId=c6841e40fb3bc76884dcb0c90612fa30#customerReviews

Wow, thanks @shead - I didn't even know those existed! My kitchen isn't so small that I need to consider an under the sink solution - in fact, if I was willing to have a smaller sink base (24") I could fit a 'normal' 24" DW and a 15" drawer stack to the right of it. So I'm not that limited. I just want a DW drawer. and a 30" sink base. There. I said it. :) I should go to a store and see if it would be terrible to have my cutlery drawer be one of the 5" drawers below the DW drawer. I mean, I know it's not conventional, but it's creative! I guess I can also reconsider a 24" sink base, but it would mean a smaller sink, and would likely mean I couldn't fit trash/recydling under the sink and would have to put it in a 15" pullout and my 36" wide base to the left of the sink would become a 15" and a 24".

Does anyone have a 24" sink base, and is it worth it to get a 24" DW? I don't think so...?

My sister-in-law opted for a 24" Sektion sink base using the now discontinued farmhouse style sink. She wanted storage over a bigger sink. I asked her if she was happy with that choice and she said yes. However, I never see much stuff in their sink and think they're pretty good about putting stuff straight into the DW.

I have the same 24" base and farmhouse sink in my laundry room. I can't speak to it's function in the kitchen, but I would think you could get the pull out configuration and put trash and recycling in there just fine.

I live alone and run my dishwasher once weekly. Yes, I DO rinse them before putting them in the DW as they would smell and I don't want dried on food on them. It's really not a big deal. And occasionally, I run it daily if I have house guests or entertain.

I'm going to try to drag out this drawer over a DW drawer thought experiment a bit more. I have never hung IKEA cabinets before so I expect you to tell me it's ridiculous, but:

Let's assume I'm not worried about steam, and I'll buy a spare 5" drawer and front just in case.

For the 5" drawer above the DW drawer, could I just make a very short (like, 5" top to bottom) 24" base cabinet that hangs on the rail, and then also make another very short 24" base cabinet that hangs from it's own separate rail that is placed like 10" off the ground (I haven't done the math yet), that also has feet below it, and use the special "heavy duty shelf" from IKEA that is used for wall ovens? This means the DW is resting on a strong, 24" wide platform that has a 5" drawer below it, which itself is supported by it's own rail and the feet of the cabinets. The 5" drawer above the DW is suspended from the rail all the other base cabinets are hanging on. It won't have additional support from feet, but it won't be that heavy either...

I'm not sure I'm following exactly, but you can't put a 24" wide cabinet inside a 24" wide cabinet. Have you been told a 24 inch base with a drawer above the dishwasher isn't sturdy enough?

I have one of those compact countertop dishwashers (different brand than linked). The capacity is very limited.

Ah, I don't mean within each other, but like the picture below (click on it to enlarge) - I used different colors for the cabinets to show where side walls are absent (e.g, no side walls in the middle portion of the 24" wide space):

And no, I haven't been told that it wouldn't be sturdy enough. It's just that I couldn't use an unmodified 24" cabinet, because it's too narrow. So I'd need a 24" short cabinet below that acted as a platform, then an open space (no cabinet sides) for the DW, and then above the DW another short 24" wide cabinet. Eg, two cabinets with a space in between that has no side walls. I think. I mean, I'm really just making this up on the fly.

Oooooh. Okay. Sorry. Would it be easier to hack a 36" base that has a 5" drawer at the top? Skip the 12".

Woah, bens bride you just blew my mind! I need some time to recover and think about this. :) BTW, is ben short for benje? It's good to see you back!

Yes! It's me <3

I've run out of kitchens to design for friends, family, neighbors. Instead of asking strangers in the grocery store if I can come over and draw up a plan for them, I thought I'd check in here.

I couldn't log on with my old account--maybe I'm on a naughty list--so I created this.

If you love a dish drawer, you should totally go for it. What's the worst that can happen?

Hmmm, the worst that could happen - a kitchen flood just flashed before my eyes :)

You know, for a hot minute Fisher Paykel actually did make a 36" wide DW drawer.

I have a single dishwasher drawer (Fisher Paykel) with a drawer below it. The drawer below is 6 1/2” high. There is no way to squeeze two drawers into this space.

Thank you for sharing @Nidnay!! This is so helpful! I do see that you have framed cabinetry and I would have frameless which may make a difference, but this demonstrates the point very well. Would I do it if I could only have one drawer... maybe? If you care to share, why did you decide to go with a single DW drawer? Is this your primary kitchen?

Well.....I have three dishwashers :) .....two single Fisher Paykel drawers (one in our island in the kitchen and one in our pantry/scullery) and another full size Bosch also in the kitchen.

Hmm, could you hack an over-the-refrigerator cabinet that is 36" W x 20" H x 24" D down to 24"W x (however tall you need it) x 24" D?

Let me just point out that having your cutlery stored 3 feet away is not a big deal. Mine is further and I didn't know it was a problem!

The FP dish drawers have a VERY portable basket. Just carry it those 3 feet and be done with it.

(Also note how Nidnay's cabinetry is not the slightest bit damaged above the DD. A drawer front would suffer the same, that is to say, not at all.)

Okay, after going back to your previous thread, you mentioned that you're using the Axstad doors and drawers from IKEA, which are a foil door. I would NOT want any foil door directly above the dishwasher because the steam will likely cause it to defoil/delaminate itself over time. You'd be better to keep the two drawers underneath. However, I might would prefer one 10" drawer versus two 5" drawers.

I'm thinking that if you purchased a 36" wide by 20" tall OTF cabinet, you can hack it down to 24" interior width. You could purchase a second 36" wide by 16" tall OTF cabinet and hack it down to where, when stacked under the 20" tall cabinet, you have 30" from top to bottom. You should then be able to use two 5" drawers or one 10" drawer UNDER the dishwasher drawer. You could then use end panels on each side of the configuration for a cleaner look.

all you need for a drawer is to attach 2 cuts of cabinet sides to the outside walls of the adjacent cabinets. Then fasten the drawer glides to that. You don't need a cabinet top or bottom. Base cabinets don't actually have a top.

But you can‘t use the IKEA oven shelf because it fits inside a 24” cabinet and you need more space. So just fasten some cleats and a plywood shelf, again into the outside walls of the adjacent cabinets.

If there is space at the bottom, use the cut off bottom of a 24” cabinet ( from which you cut the upper strips for the top drawer). This would include a bottom, 2 shortened sides, and legs for the front toe kick to fasten to.

You may need a trim piece on this bottom section.

Clear as mud, huh :)

Another possibility:Bosch 18-inch panel-ready dishwasher with IKEA 18" x 30" cabinet door to match other kitchen cabinet doors. Door would have to be shortened and only a flat door could be used.

If it were my kitchen I would opt for the 18" wide DW and the 18" set of drawers. It will take less time to fill but will still allow for more room if you have people over or if you are doing some weekend cooking.

Also, I have the 12" pullout in my laundry room, and it is fine for that purpose, but I REALLY prefer the drawers over a pull out. The storage may end up being equivalent (or close) with the 2 scenarios, but the ability to access things will be easier in the regular cabinet as opposed to a pullout and drawers that are above or below the DW.

That just seems like a simpler solution to me and one that should still give you maximum storage without giving up to much space to the DW.

Thank you everyone for your continued thoughts on this! I have to admit, @Lisa I had always planned for an 18" DW, it was the practical thing to do, my neighbor has one for a family of 4 and it works (my block is fully of tiny kitchens) and it was responsible. However, the allure of the drawer is strong. I don't want to build my kitchen around rare events (e.g., a dinner party where I wish I had 3 dishwashers like @Nidnay :)), but also don't want to be irresponsible and build around a single appliance. Side note: I will have so much more usable storage with this kitchen compared to my current (and did I mention I have an unfinished basement that has oodles of storage?), that I really want to make this little luxury work. That said, I'm also practical and don't want to make a dumb mistake, lest internet friends make fun of me behind my back. :)

@ulisdone - I totally get what you're saying!! I didn't realize it could work that way (only need sides to attach). Is it OK that I"m willing to devote a lot of my spare time to making sure this works (math etc.)?

@shead - yes, I'll be using Axstad, foil doors. I know the steam could wreck them. In other news, a 5" tall, 24" wide Axstad drawer front is $37. I might be willing to risk it in the name of science. :)

Also @Nidnay - which is your favorite dishwasher? :)

Just buy a couple in advance and store under the bed in case IKEA decides to discontinue them :)

I am a planning to use the Axstad in my laundry room and kid bathrooms :)

Love, love, love the drawers! They are the ones that get used daily and the Bosch is basically for the overflow.

If you find yourself hacking IKEA to that degree? And for a thermofoil door? I really think that a local custom cabinet make should be explored to give you exactly what you want. The difference won’t be that great.

@User - thank you for being a voice of reason! I have gotten one quote for custom - it was about $2000 more than IKEA (once I factor in installation) but it was for framed cabinetry, and I really want frameless. I have had a hard time finding custom frameless in Minnesota, though I suppose I could do 100% Scherr's (RTA frameless out of North Dakota), but that would probably end up being more than local custom [framed] once I factor in installation costs. I have some thinking to do...

@AMS Try Great Woods Cabinetry in Anoka or Cabinetry Concepts in Ramsey. My architect/contractor normally uses Great Woods, so that what I have in my current house. Great Woods was already booked when we remodeled the last house, so Cabinetry Concepts did the work there. Both did excellent work.

Thanks @Moxie! I will check them out!

Hi AMS! You're getting brave and creative;) If you stay with IKEA for this, I'd hack a 24" base for MW with drawer. It comes with a shelf, the Forbattra cover strip and fasteners that you'll need to use as horizontal filler piece. Not sure which model FP dishdrawer you want, but I'd do the tall height which requires a cavity of 18"H x 23 5/8W x 22 1/16"D. I would mount it at the top with one 10" drawer at the bottom (add an inner drawer if you want). This makes the installation hack easier and no worries about water ruining the drawer base and front. Your 36" cab to the left of the sink will give you plenty of room in the top drawer for cutlery and more. And you have the drawers by the range for cooking utensils. I'd put your wraps and tupperware in the bottom drawers below the DW. Now the hack: I would cut the two sides to meet the cutout requirements, leaving the back and 1 15/16" of the back sides intact. The filler would be cut and attached between the opening and the drawer (18" dishdrawer + 2" filler + 10" drawer = 30"). If you try it this way you can still mount the cab to the rail and to the sink cabinet and 12" pullout cabinet. I would add a Fixa countertop support fixture on each of those two cabinets to make up for the missing cabinet sides.

Of course, you could still do a 5" above and below, but it will be a more complex install and I'd plan to get extra drawer fronts and bottoms. I would apply the moisture tape to the bottom of the top drawer too. You could apply the same installation hack as above but swapping the bottom drawer for a low maximera with 5" front and adding the 5" at the top. You'd still have 2" of filler.

Hope this makes sense! Let us know what you decide!!

Hello to benjesbride!! Hope you and the family are well! Great to see you!

Thank you @bbtrix! I am going to have read this a couple times to see if I understand. It never occurred to me that by getting rid of the sides (or making them ~2 inches deep) that there would be no countertop support at the front. I bet the IKEA countertop installers might not be pleased by that, or say it will void a warranty? But - wait, what supports the counter when a 'normal' dishwasher with no cabinet housing is used? *oh I think I feel a lightbulb going off* - these Fixa supports attached to the flanking cabs are what are used with 'normal' DWs...

Off to play with graph paper - thanks!! :) And yes, I agree the 5" above/below plan seems doomed.

The depth of the cut would be 22 1/16. I omitted that on the pic above.

Hi @AMS, just wondering if you ended up going with the single dishwasher drawer and drawer underneath idea? I also live in NYC with a smallish kitchen and was considering this layout for a future remodel. Thanks!

Hi @Kay Hu - I didn't. It was beyond my capabilities, and honestly I decided I wanted a bigger DW. I ended up going with a dish drawer stack (to left of sink).

Hi, what do you think of the dish drawers? I am looking at them with IKEA cabinets but so hesitant to move to a drawer. The salesperson says I’ll love it but it just feels so different to me