sara_ann_gw

Bourbon and Hybrid Perpetuals with good repeat bloom?

sara_ann-z6bok
October 31, 2019
last modified: October 31, 2019

I’m wondering which Bourbon and Hybrid Perpetual roses have good repeat bloom? Similar to Souvenir de la Malmaison and Mystic Beauty, which repeat as often as my modern varieties. Reine des Violettes has fairly good repeat, but not as often as the SdlM or Mystic Beauty.

Comments (30)

  • vesfl (zone 5b/6a, Western NY)

    My Marchesa Boccella has a generous second flush in September. The blooms are not as abundant or large as in spring, but they are still lovely and cover a good part of the shrub.

    sara_ann-z6bok thanked vesfl (zone 5b/6a, Western NY)
  • Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley

    Maggie blooms well and often for me and I think it's considered a bourbon. Quite healthy also.

    sara_ann-z6bok thanked Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
  • Paul Barden

    Perhaps consider some of the Chinas?

    sara_ann-z6bok thanked Paul Barden
  • sara_ann-z6bok

    Thank you for the suggestions. Vaporvac, glad you mentioned Maggie, that’s one I had considered, but had forgotten about it. vesfl, Marchesa Boccella is a good suggestion too, Paul, I’ll check out some of the Chinas, thanks for mentioning them.

  • sabalmatt_tejas

    Souvenir de St Anne’s, Spice and New Orleans Cemetary Bourbon give me great repeat and are very heat tolerant.

    sara_ann-z6bok thanked sabalmatt_tejas
  • jerijen

    To be honest, I could only wish that all (or even most) HPs repeated as quickly, or as generously, as "Grandmother's Hat".

    The same could be said for the Bourbon/China, 'Gloire des Rosomanes' ("Ragged Robin"). "New Orleans Cemetery Rose" (thought to be ('Pierre de St. Cyr') is an excellent bloomer and good repeater here, in an area where most Bourbons are very, very poor bloomers with poor disease-resistance.

    sara_ann-z6bok thanked jerijen
  • Lisa Adams

    I don’t know if it’s an anomaly , but my Baronne Prevost really never stops. Nothing is quite as spectacular as her spring flush, but BP repeats all summer for me. There are still blooms now, although they’ve been eaten and beaten by bugs and dry winds. I do trim it down a bit after the first huge flush. The bush in the middle is Baronne Prevost. Lisa

    sara_ann-z6bok thanked Lisa Adams
  • malcolm_manners

    Lots of good suggestions above. Also, Comte de Chambord (a.k.a. Mme. Bolle), Rose de Rescht, Old Town Novato. Paul Neyron will rebloom every time you severely dead-head it (cut back to under 3 ft. tall), but not otherwise.

    sara_ann-z6bok thanked malcolm_manners
  • Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley

    Oh. I guess I forgot to submit my comment. Lisa, that is a gorgeous lesson in composition! I have successfully rooted a couple of cuttings so now I'm just hoping they overwinter..... really hoping! Do you grow its supposed sport 'Ardoisee de Lyon'? Does anyone know the hardiness of some of these other suggestions such as 'Spice' and 'Grandmother's Hat'?

  • Lisa Adams

    Thank you, Vap. I try to cram as much as I can into my little beds, and because it’s so dry here, I can get away with it without problems or spraying. I don’t grow ‘Ardoisee de Lyon’. I just looked it up, and it’s beautiful! I fear that in my garden, it would probably be the lighter color shown in some of the “pinker” pictures. I love the darker mauve photos.

    I’m afraid I don’t know anything about the cold hardiness of roses, even the ones that I grow. Cold just isn’t an issue here, so I don’t even look at that.

    IF what I’ve been growing with great success is Grandmother’s Hat (and not Louise Odier, as purchased), I can attest to its wonderful repeat. Mine blooms from early spring until about September or October. It still has a few blooms today. It blooms like crazy! Lisa

  • sara_ann-z6bok

    So many good suggestions, I very much appreciate them all, I’m checking them all out, thanks! Lisa, what a gorgeous picture of Baronne Prevost!

  • Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley

    I think it belongs on HMF!!! ))

  • mustbnuts zone 9 sunset 9

    Vick's Caprice has very good repeat bloom. It does tend to stop when the temps hit over 110 F. I am not sure it gets that warm over there.

    sara_ann-z6bok thanked mustbnuts zone 9 sunset 9
  • sara_ann-z6bok

    Thank you, gorgeous blooms mustbnuts! It can get that hot, but very rare that we have prolonged triple digits

  • sharon2079

    OK.... goes to show how much I know..... but I had thought hybrid perpetual meant the rose had was perpetually in bloom.... always with flowers except when it hibernates in the winter..... duh.... still learning.

    But that is what I like about the forum. I not only get to see pretty things.... but I am constantly learning things too.

  • Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley


    Sharon, I think when the China genes were first introduced ito European OGRs it was such a breakthrough that the advertising spin of the day considered them perpetual. Compared to a single flush I guess it was! At least that's my limited understanding of it! : D The HPs have such moody colours, it's a no wonder they were a sensation only to be supplanted by the HTeas. I hope my little pot pet RdViolette does well when it finally goes into the ground this spring. I think I learn something from every thread I've read if only to see a new rose!

  • katyajini

    Sara, thank you for this thread. I have been thinking along the same lines...

    I have only a very, very, small bank of knowledge about roses but will share with you what I know..I will give another vote for Marchessa. It blooms continuously for me, the scent is heavenly and wafts too. Though the petals are thin the flowers on this one never balled for me. It does not have any disease either. Although not in the classes you are asking about and sorry if you know this already: another rose that blooms on and on and has great wafting fragrance is Marie Pavie. It is extremely east to grow too. Its mid thirties at night now but Marie Pavie is still blooming away.

    Malcolm how interesting! Most often if I see a spent bloom, as I am passing by, I just cut it off at the second 5-leaflet leaf for these roses. That usually means anywhere form 1/2 to 3 inches depending on the rose. I dont know if the cut always fell below 3 feet. I do get rebloom but maybe not as much as is easily possible. Are you saying wait till all the current buds are done then cut the bush across the top so its less than 3 feet tall? 3 feet tall for what sized bush? i.e. what fraction are you trimming? And can you cut jaggedly (uneven heights) to make it look more natural? I want to try it your way...thank.

    Lisa: again what a lovely picture. Love BP. I hope it blooms like that for me! As Vap said that is nicely a designed flower bed. What are the shorter flat top white flowers and what is the lavender rose to the right?

    mustbenuts: the picture of VCs is gorgeous!

  • sara_ann-z6bok

    Katyajini, thanks. I’ve certainly enjoyed your threads asking about different fragrant varieties of roses. You’ve ask about several varieties that I’m interested in too, so it’s been helpful. I had gotten a Marchesa Boccella in 2018, something got a hold of the roots apparently, so it died. I’m sure I’ll get another one.

  • nippstress - zone 5 Nebraska

    Vapor, I can comment on cold hardiness of the roses mentioned above and several other HP/Bourbons I grow. The only ones listed so far in this thread that have survived my winters are Grandmother's Hat (in my top 20 of 1000 roses, taller than my head, handles anything the weather can throw it, nice scent, good rebloom) and its sport Larry Daniels, Marchesa (a trouper and trouble free, great rebloom), Maggie (OK rebloom, appreciates some protection in zone 5, fabulous scent), Louise Odier (blooms a couple of times, good winter survival, not profuse though) and Baronne Prevost (not much repeat but it's in a terrible spot, survives virtual zone 4). Vick's Caprice is lovely and will survive in my most protected spot, and I get about 3 modest flushes a year from him.

    Mme. Isaac Periere does fine and climbs nicely by mid-summer in my virtual zone 6, but only blooms on old wood and I have to really work for her to have some (I get a couple of blooms later in the season but nothing notable - fabulous scent though). If we can sneak in a Portland, Yolande d'Aragon has reasonable surviving cane in my protected zone 6 spot and reblooms periodically, but she is notable in my relatively dry climate for having spectacularly awful spotted foliage. I don't know if it's cercospora or anthracnose or BS or all of the above, but she should come with a poster saying "don't grow me in humid east coast climates".

    Duchesse de Rohan does quite well in a protected z6 spot and reblooms off and on
    and Dupuy Jamain also does fine in there with less rebloom. Sydonie is a tremendous huge sprawling bush and she puts on a splendid display in the spring (part sun) but I've never seen her rebloom in six years. Comtesse d'Oxford, Duchesse d'Orleans, Duke of Edinburgh, Francois Arago, Indigo, Madame de Stael, Madame Dore (wimpy but OK), Marbree, Paul Verdier, and Rembrandt, all survive and bloom some in part sun but almost all of those are spring-only bloomers for me. Many of them are quite large (Comtesse, Duchesse, Marbree, Paul V & Rembrandt are 5-6' here) but not all that profuse bloomers even in spring. Enfant de France is a trooper and blooms off and on in my zone 4 pocket.

    Beyond that I had Marie Pavie survive for a while but not when I replaced her. Ardoisee de Lyon, Paul Neyron, Old Town Novato, Rose de Rescht, and Compte de Chambord all failed to overwinter in my virtual zone 6. Gloire de Ducher is hanging on after one winter by the skin of its teeth on its third try, but Gloire de Lyonnaise didn't, nor did Magna Charta in protected spots. Kronprinzesse Victoria just barely survived 5-6 years in a normal spot but she never cleared a foot high; the jury is still out on Mystic Beauty in a more protected spot. Monsieur Boncenne has survived but doesn't bloom much and he takes a while to regrow after the winter in a protected spot. Spice, Souvenir de St. Anne's and all the Chinas take one look at my winters and run screaming for the hills never to be seen again. I had a glimmer of survival once from Archduke Charles in my virtual zone 6, and I think he's the hardiest of the Chinas, but he didn't survive as well as my Maman Cochet (and teas are definitely not supposed to survive in zone 5). The list of HPs, Chinas, Portlands and Bourbons I have tried and failed to overwinter is longer than the list above (note to self - do NOT keep trying SDLM or her clones as they WILL not survive despite all your begging...).

    So my bottom line recommendation in this class for cold zoners from my experience is to grow Grandmother's Hat and Marchesa Boccella for the height, rebloom, beauty and resilience, grow Maggie for the scent, grow Vick's Caprice (protected) for the intriguing blooms, Sydonie for an impressive once-bloomer, and Enfant de France as a miniature tank in a tough spot.

    Cynthia

  • katyajini

    Cynthia, once again you are an encyclopedia! Or more like on Startrek one asks computer what is......and you get everything...I think you are awesome. have you ever grown Deuil de Dr. Raynaud? I wonder about its rebloom and habit. I know its very fragrant.

  • Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley

    Cynthia, I'm saving your comment for the last paragraph! Enfant de France is a beauty with heavenly scent when I saw it at HCR. I was unsure of its BS propensity so gave it a miss. V'sC is another I've wondered about. I have rooted cuttings of both BPrevost and DdDr.R so time will tell with them. Your experience with ArchdukeCharles matches mine. It experienced die-back in my protected vestibule where many roses continue to bloom over the winter, so I figured it would certainly expire planted outside. I love it so much though so it's being kept as a permanent pot pet at the feet of Blossomtime (or at least will be next year!) : ))

  • malcolm_manners

    Katy, re. 'Paul Neyron' -- he naturally grows very tall. 6-8 feet in a season, easily. I'm saying rather than a light deadheading, he needs a hard prune, whatever height that may end up being.

  • katyajini

    Thank you Malcolm! I get it. I have heard this said about Yolande d'Aragon as well.

  • nippstress - zone 5 Nebraska

    [chuckle] I love Star Trek so I don't mind being compared to its computer, but it's pretty laughable considering how much of a low tech person I am. I think that's one of the many appeals of gardening, particularly if it's organic gardening (or in my case, lazy gardening). I have only ever logged in to post on two websites ever, this one and the "other" rose website, and it took 4 years of lurking here for me to even manage that much!

    Glad the final paragraph was useful, Vap! Not everyone wants to read the full encyclopedic spew of information that resulted from scanning and musing on my rose lists, so the summary is a good idea. With your comment I looked back and realized I'd shamefully forgotten to include Marcesa Boccella among the cold zone favorites. I listed her in an edit right next to Grandmother's Hat. Being a low tech person of course, I'd already finished this message and went back to edit, and didn't realize that I'd lose all this typing in the process. Hope it doesn't post twice.

    Katyajini, I did grow Deuil de Dr. Raynaud for several years in a part shade situation and it survived and came back for me, though without any surviving cane. He had nice dark color and deserves a positive mark for hardiness too, but I killed him when I needed to move him for some reason. Thanks for reminding me that I need to replace him this year. I'd give him a good recommendation.

    Cynthia

  • Stephanie, 9b inland SoCal

    Malcolm, I have Paul Neyron and Reine de Violettes. I was thinking of pegging them both to encourage laterals and more blooms. Have you tried pegging either of these? Would PN give more blooms, cut hard after flowering or pegged? It’s just that I heard Hybrid Perpetuals bloom more if pegged and that they are also the perfect pegging rose.

  • katyajini

    Great question Stephanie! I would love to know that too. Not that I have a clue how I would go about pegging!


    Cynthia: The ST reference comes from awestruck admiration. You know I thought DdDR blooms on old wood like MIP, so if it dies down to the roots how can the new cane bear blooms?? Or does it bloom on new wood?


    Vap: What is the fragrance of Enfant de France. On the HCR web page it is described as 'grandmothers soap, pepper and attar'. Sounds very interesting and I cant imagine what that is? Whose grandmother? Black pepper?

  • Stephanie, 9b inland SoCal

    Search YouTube for “Paul Zimmerman rose pegging” to see instructional video of different pegging styles.

  • Plumeria Girl (Florida ,9b)

    I have it safe on my phone. Katy..check this out :)


    https://youtu.be/fr3cTEjzrcM





  • malcolm_manners

    We sometimes do peg Reine des Violettes, and that works pretty well. I think if you tried that with Paul Neyron, most of the canes would just snap off; that rose is rigidly upright.

  • katyajini

    I found the video, thanks Stephanie and Plumeria! What a nice think to do with huge shrubs. What I am not clear on is do you do and undo each cane every year?

Need help with an existing Houzz order? Call 1-800-368-4268