yochrose123

Minwax stain under Bona Traffic HD

Y 123
last month

We are ready to sand our floors and choose a color. My Flooring guy says he uses minwax stains, and yes he can use them under bona traffic HD. My decorator says she hasn't used minwax in ages and only uses duraseal. Can I trust the flooring guy and go with minwax or should I insist he use duraseal? (he says he can if I really want)

Another question, I just want to be as educated as possible - what is the correct process for finishing floors with bona traffic hd and minwax stain? Minwax stain - let dry how long? Then bona traffic hd x 3 coats? anything between the 2?

Thank You

Comments (40)

  • PRO
    Rockin' Fine Finish

    why not use bona stains that would give you the best shot. minwax can take longer to dry.

    Y 123 thanked Rockin' Fine Finish
  • Y 123

    My flooring guy wants to use minwax, my guess is that's all he ever uses, and has never worked with the bona stain. When you say longer to dry, how long would that be?

  • Related Discussions

    Floor stain, 4 inch red oak floor

    Q

    Comments (9)
    Better The two part finishes are very durable and considered suitable for heavy residential use and light commercial use as well. Of course, you will pay more for the better product. We put a coat of Basic Coatings Streetshoe finish on late afternoon today and it dried fast enough that we could walk across it (in socks) to lock the back door when we left. Super fast dry time plus, it doesn't have the same odor issues as the oil base.
    ...See More

    Need Help Picking Minimalist Wood Stain

    Q

    Comments (3)
    Remember that the polyurethane will amber the white or gray as well! If you want it to be exactly what you are looking at for sample you need to apply some finish too. For the white, bleached floor look we have used the white and a clear finish of Bona Traffic or Street Shoe. I think the center grey is closest o what you are after and when it is on the larger floor you will not be as troubled by it,
    ...See More

    white oak hardwood flooring. STAIN OR LEAVE NATURAL???

    Q

    Comments (41)
    Help! Just just had solid white oak #2 flooring installed in my den. After sanding I loved the natural look of the wood including the knots and imperfections. It was light and made the room appear larger. When it came to a finish, I didn't want any red or yellow coloration. My contractor recommended leaving it natural and using a Bona Mega finish which was supposed to dry clear. However, as you can see from the photo, after the first coat, yellow dominated the room. After reading on the website about this particular water-based finish, I learned that while it might dry clear, it leaves an amber color tone--just what I did not want. I talked to the contractor and told him that I had to figure out a different finish. I plan to call the Bona company tomorrow to get their assistance. I told the contractor, if he could remove the first-coat finish, I would purchase the right finish for him to use. I fear, though, that the amber color has penetrated the wood since a sealer was not used and I am stuck with a yellow floor. My question to tcrp6566 is did you use a sealer first? I realize your flooring was "select" not #2 and that makes a difference. But was the Bona Traffic absolutely clear? How did you retained the natural color of the wood? The picture I attached is with one coat of Bona Mega using no stain.
    ...See More

    Need Help Deciding between Oil- and Water-based Stain

    Q

    Comments (1)
    We use oil based floor finish. Finishing floors can turn out really well, or can turn out poorly depending on the contractor that you use. Make sure you have seen your contractors work before. If you have and like what you saw, then I would go with what they recommend. I wouldn't risk experimenting with products, but rather go with what your expert floor finisher recommends. They should be able to do samples for you to see what you like best.
    ...See More
  • SJ McCarthy

    Don't mix and match stains and finishes. Find someone who will work with the stains built for the finish you want to have.

    Y 123 thanked SJ McCarthy
  • PRO
    Beth H. :

    ditto.. minwax is the Walmart of wood stains. I'm surprised he can even use the Bona. Why wouldn't he use the Bona or DuraSeal stains? they're so much better.

    find someone else that doesn't use the cheap-o stains

    Y 123 thanked Beth H. :
  • PRO
    G & S Floor Service

    Failing is part of learning. It will make them a better floor finisher.


    What is their plan for finishing? Minwax and Traffic HD? Anything between it?

    Y 123 thanked G & S Floor Service
  • ci_lantro

    Minwax stain - let dry how long?


    3 days in western Oklahoma during the summer.


    Central Wisconsin--spring, summer, fall--Forever.


    I disagree with Beth about Minwax being the WalMart of stains. More like the Family Dollar Store of stains. :-)

    Y 123 thanked ci_lantro
  • PRO
    Johnson Flooring Co Inc

    While using products that all come from one maker should ensure compatibility, there should be no issue mixing stains and finishes from different ones, as long as proper procedures are followed.

    I highly recommend using Duraseal Quick Coat stain rather than Minwax. Otherwise you're supposed to wait three days before application of water based urethane. Here's the technical data sheet for Bona Traffic HD which outlines what to do between coats, though your floor finisher probably already knows: https://www.bona.com/Global/Documents/United%20States/Technical%20Data%20Sheets/TDS%20BonaTraffic%20HD%20US.pdf?epslanguage=en

    Y 123 thanked Johnson Flooring Co Inc
  • Y 123

    Thank You all for your helpful comments. I think I'll ask him to use the duraseal. Regarding their plan for finishing, I understood stain and then 3 coats of bona traffic hd, with nothing in between.

  • PRO
    Johnson Flooring Co Inc

    Opinions vary, but I'm not a fan of 3 coats. 2 is sufficient when the product is applied at the recommended coverage. Traffic is rather thick and applies in a somewhat heavy coat. A third coat is redundant and in a residential setting it looks scuffed and worn as quickly as 2 coats. When it looks shabby it requires recoating. Plus it potentially fills the grain making the wood surface smooth and plastic looking. If one applied 200 coats, the surface would look bad and require recoating as quickly as if there was 2 coats. It does increase the time to wear-through but hopefully you won't neglect your floor that way. As you probably noticed in the instructions, Bona recommends two coats, except for heavy traffic areas.

    Y 123 thanked Johnson Flooring Co Inc
  • Y 123

    I just spoke to the flooring guy and he says if I want he can use duraseal. He likes to use minwax because thats what he uses 99% of the time, and most of his crews are most comfortable with it. He says duraseal is a little thick and harder to work with, but if I want he can use it.

    He is doing now 2 coats, and then the painters are still going to finish and a little bit more of work, and then he says he'll buff and do 1 more coat - sounds right?

  • SJ McCarthy

    I have no problem with a 3 coat system. Many flooring professionals will stain, then add a coat of finish and then do a light sanding (to knock down the grain) and add a second coat. They will then wait until all the touch-up work is done in the house before they do another light sanding (required when more than 24 hours between coats) and the final coat is put down.


    What is SUPER important is: the floor must be CURED before they put down 'drop sheets' or any protective layer. And that's where things get messy. It sounds like your flooring contractor has done this a time or two (s/he has 'crews' so that is an indication of a big operation) so I wouldn't worry about the timing of everything.


    The good thing about the water based finishes is they have a fast cure time (5-10 days instead of 30+ days in the winter).


    Whatever you do, make sure you put it IN WRITING. Emails are fine. Paper trails are the best way to protect yourself. The BEST way is to have it written into the contract.


    Written down like: Water Popping + DuraSeal Stain; first coat Bona Traffic HD (sheen level indentified); Light buffing/sanding prior to second coat of Bona Traffic HD (sheen level identified); Flooring Contractor will allow floor to cure for "X"days before covering with Ram Board (brand name stuff) to allow painters to touch-up the interior; Ram Board is removed; floor is buffed/sanded and final coat of Bona Traffic HD (sheen level identified) is applied.


    Things like the above are part and parcel of a well worded contract. If you do not have one, simply send emails each time you talk that reiterate the conversation and what was discussed. It will save your bacon should anything go wrong. It takes it out of the 'he-said; she-said' realm.


    DuraSeal stains are typically water based which means they are more compatible with Bona Traffic HD than Minwax - which are typically oil based and incompatible with water based finishes.



    Y 123 thanked SJ McCarthy
  • Y 123

    Thank You so much for all that info. It makes me an educated consumer, so I know what to ask. One question though, you wrote "What is SUPER important is: the floor must be CURED before they put down 'drop sheets' or any protective layer. And that's where things get messy. "

    At which point can we walk on it? Does it mean no workers in the house during cure time?

    Also i think my contractor intends to put brown paper down, and expects the painter to use his sheets to cover - is that equivalent to ram board?

  • PRO
    Johnson Flooring Co Inc

    "DuraSeal stains are typically water based"

    This is not even remotely correct. In fact, I can't think of a decent stain that is water based other than aniline/water dye stains (which are notoriously difficult to use and can't be coated directly with water based finish.

    Y 123 thanked Johnson Flooring Co Inc
  • PRO
    Johnson Flooring Co Inc

    I'm definitely not a fan of leaving a coat until after other trades have finished. It's too easy for the floor guy to get the short end on that deal. Other trades seem to think it's okay to be careless because the floor guy will fix any mishaps. In addition to being able to ensure adhesion by applying all coats on in short order, it sidesteps problems that are beyond control of the finisher. If someone spills something that affect adhesion and the floor finisher doesn't notice, the finisher is on the hook in event of a failure.

    Brown building paper is probably about 1/8th the thickness of RamBoard. Paper and dropcloths are probably sufficient if all that's left is painting. If there's work to be done on ladders, the legs can be wrapped with rags, or pieces of masonite or thermoply can be used where needed.

    Y 123 thanked Johnson Flooring Co Inc
  • Y 123

    After reading some more on this forum, I have another question. We have 4" quarter sawn oak on our first floor and regular white oak on our second floor. Do we need to put a sealer after the stain before the bona traffic hd to prevent tannin pull? Thank You

  • PRO
    Johnson Flooring Co Inc

    If you read the directions on the Traffic on the link I posted earlier, you already know the answer. It doesn't mention sealer between the stain and urethane. It says to apply over sealer OR stain. If you're staining, the sealer isn't necessary. If you're not staining, the sealer is necessary.

    Y 123 thanked Johnson Flooring Co Inc
  • Y 123

    Update on my floors. We chose the color weathered oak from duraseal. I saw my floors today after stain and one coat of traffic hd, and my floors look really nice, just a little dry, but it is still getting another 2 coats.

    BUT now I noticed quite a few spots where there are holes in the wood as part of the grain. The wood is 4" quarter sawn white oak. I have never seen holes in such a floor. When I pointed it out to the floor guy, he says "its wood, a natural thing of course it has holes" I thought they should be filled with putty - he thinks it'll look really bad, is willing to do a few spots for me and if I like it he'll do them all. Now I am thinking he should replace all those pieces that have a hole - they shouldn't have been there in the first place. Am I correct? What should I do at this point? Thank You all.

  • Y 123

    One more thing, my second floor has 3 1/4 regular white oak, and doesn't have any holes, maybe one little spot and the floors are stunning, I would say even nicer than the quarter sawn. No need to upgrade to quarter sawn oak. (I needed it because I have radiant heat on the first floor)

  • PRO
    Johnson Flooring Co Inc

    No candy coating it, you are wrong (except in the opinion that they should be filled).

    Holes can result from things that happened to the tree while living. or from using nails during installation. Filling is acceptable. Even Clear grade wood is allowed to have "fine pin worm holes", therefore every grade below that also allows them. See my source below, top of page 5.

    Have the holes filled and proceed with finishing.

    Replacing the boards would be extremely foolish. Think it through. Rather than addressing a generally acceptable issue in the generally prescribed manner, you're advocating that pieces be removed, replaced with pieces that will have most of their t&g construction removed, sanded, stained and finished to catch up to the rest of the floor. During removal it's entirely possible that more boards are damaged and the repair grows. It's entirely possible that the whole floor ends up having to be refinished. Then it's possible it doesn't turn out as well the second time around. Then it has to be done a third time, all for some tiny holes. You're just a few step from being DONE! You are one misstep away from causing your job to fail miserably. Don't do it.

    https://www.nwfa.org/NWFA-NOFMA%20Unfinished%20Standard%20Final-April%202018.pdf

    Y 123 thanked Johnson Flooring Co Inc
  • Y 123

    I hear you, except these holes are not pin worm holes, they are rather large, rough looking, random shaped, black rimmed holes that one doesn't expect to see on a quarter sawn floor. I can see some people choosing to have such a look, with live sawn oak, but I have never seen this on any nice looking wood floor. I feel like they should never have put down those pieces.

    I agree that I should not pull those boards out, as I am so worn out from this long renovation process that I just want to finish. You think putty will look fine? He says it'll look worse - you'll be able to tell that its putty and not wood.

  • PRO
    Rockin' Fine Finish

    could you post pictures

    Y 123 thanked Rockin' Fine Finish
  • Y 123

    I will try to get pictures tomorrow.

  • PRO
    Johnson Flooring Co Inc

    Define "large". Again, holes are filled in wood flooring all the time. As long as the person filling does a decent job and picks the right color of filler, the hole should practically disappear. If necessary the finisher could use a touchup marker between urethane coats to add a little graining to larger holes.

    Y 123 thanked Johnson Flooring Co Inc
  • Y 123

    This is what the floors look like





  • Y 123

    And here are some of the issues






  • Y 123

    And what do I do about this, where one board is laid lower than the others



  • PRO
    Johnson Flooring Co Inc

    Those aren't holes so your finisher is probably correct. They're small tight knots that are probably to shallow to putty. Putty won't stick. They could be painted over between urethane coats if they bother you. The low board is an issue. Is it in a conspicuous spot? It appears to be cracked also.

    Y 123 thanked Johnson Flooring Co Inc
  • Y 123

    It is in the living room area - I didn't notice it right away, but it is in a spot that won't be covered by furniture such as couches, etc..

  • SJ McCarthy

    The knot holes are in good shape. They are small and do not look like there will be material falling out of them (they are too small). These are perfectly fine.


    The 'quarter sawn' means how the round tree is cut to make flat boards. The acceptability of 'knots' comes with the QUALITY of the lumber...not how they are cut.


    Here is an excellent article the points out all the relevant information (without being as boring as sawdust).


    https://www.flooring-professionals.com/flooring-resources/choosing-the-right-hardwood-grade/


    Unless you paid for the "Clear" or "Select" grade of wood, these small knot holes are considered acceptable.

    Y 123 thanked SJ McCarthy
  • PRO
    G & S Floor Service

    These size knots are normal. I would just fill and touch up with color. You will forget about it in no time.

    Y 123 thanked G & S Floor Service
  • PRO
    Johnson Flooring Co Inc

    Select grade wood allowance: "The face may contain: unlimited sound sapwood; slight imperfections in milling; one (1) small tight knot every 3' (914.4 mm) of piece; pin worm holes; burls and a reasonable amount of slightly open checks. Brown streaks should not extend the entire length of a piece. Two (2) flag worm holes to every 8' (2438.4 mm) of the piece are permitted. Slight imperfections in face work (torn grain) admitted. An intermittent, brown machine burn across the face not exceeding 1/4" (.250”) (6.35 mm) in width admitted. "

    Y 123 thanked Johnson Flooring Co Inc
  • Y 123

    Thank You all for the helpful information. I did pay for select grade. I guess I just did not expect it, so it bothers me. I will ask him to fill them, and move on.

    What do I do about the board that is lower than the others though?

  • SJ McCarthy

    At this point, disturbing the finish is a bit of a no-no. Your professional has done a beautiful job overall.


    Traditionally the fill would be UNDERNEATH the finish...not on top. I personally would leave the knots alone. But that's me. I think they are pretty. Mainly because they add visual interest.


    The board that is lower than the rest needs fixing. It should have been culled at the time of install but was missed. It is probably too deep to add filler and then add colour and then add stain. It is possible this one needs removal. And that will mean disturbing the finish.


    I would bring your refinisher back in and ask these questions. The board that sits lower is his duty to deal with. The knots are not. You purchased Select Grade. You received Select Grade. He installed Select Grade (he did a very nice job...BTW). If you wish the knots dealt with, you will need to negotiate a price.


    Please be aware of what you are asking the wood filler to do. You are asking for the wood filler to sit nicely (not crumble or fall out) under a little bit of glue (aka polyurethane) for 25 years. That is a big ask for such small knots.


    If you ask for the fill and pay the price for them, you OWN the issue this will create. If the putty crumbles and flakes out, you own that issue. If the knot is left alone it will most likely sit nicely for decades. Filler is not known for being as stable as wood.


    You have a beautiful floor with a single plank that has a milling issue which should have been culled at the time of install. I would hesitate to have anything changed other than the plank. And even then I would (personally) accept a small discount (the cost of a removal/repair/spot finish) from the final price tag.


    That's me. You need to be happy with your floor. But realize what you are about to get into if you fill the knots in a fully finished floor. The cure can be worse than the disease.

    Y 123 thanked SJ McCarthy
  • PRO
    G & S Floor Service

    You can find the best matching crayon and melt it into the knots. No poly is needed. I personally would use black, but i am pretty sure Crayola has a color that matches your floor color.

    Y 123 thanked G & S Floor Service
  • Y 123

    G & S Floor Service - you're serious?

  • PRO
    Beth H. :

    Y123,,I had to research it, but yes!

    Crayons make an excellent filler for small gouges or holes in resilient flooring. Select a colour that closely matches the floor. Melt the crayon in the microwave on medium power over a piece of greaseproof paper, until you have a pliant glob of colour. With a plastic or putty knife, fill the hole.

    https://www.woodshopnews.com/columns-blogs/filling-voids-knots-and-dents

    For smaller voids like thin cracks and pinhole knots, wax is great way to go. Wax comes in a variety of colors and a few hardnesses. For very small voids no larger than 1/16”, I like to use rub-in blending sticks. In a pinch, crayons will work. Simply rub it in or use a heat gun to melt the wax and drip it into the void. After it hardens in a few seconds, remove the surrounding smear by rubbing the wax flush with a hard block of wood wrapped in a cotton rag and a few drops of mineral spirits.



    I believe you can mix a little wood stain into wax and make your own color. you don't have to use a crayon (unless you have the exact color crayon!)

    Y 123 thanked Beth H. :
  • PRO
    G & S Floor Service

    Color sticks , crayons, same stuff. You just need to soften it up. It’s a old Wood worker’s trick.

    Y 123 thanked G & S Floor Service
  • Y 123

    OK I will try it in an inconspicuous spot and see what it looks like.

  • Y 123

    The last coat of finish is not on yet, I should do it before or after?

  • PRO
    G & S Floor Service

    If, the final coat is not on yet. Have the installer fill it with traditional filler and touch it up with stain.


    Color sticks are only used, if, final coating have been completed.

    Y 123 thanked G & S Floor Service

Need help with an existing Houzz order? Call 1-800-368-4268