patti_yohe

Bluestar 6 burner rangetop and wall sheetrock

Peke (Patti)
last month

We are looking for backsplash tile, but I started wondering if we have the correct wall surface installed. Our sheetrock guy installed the sheetrock, but I have no idea if he followed the code as regards to stove backsplash.


The 36" Bluestar has a trim piece on the back. I don't know what the trim is called, but the rangetop came with it. The rangetop is pulled out about 3" from the sheetrock wall. The vent hood is pulled out 3" too and is 42" wide. There is a piece of quartzite behind the Bluestar trim piece.


Is regular sheetrock okay, or does it need to be a different product? We will either use a stainless steel panel with glass subway tiles everywhere else, or all glass subway tiles.


If we use a stainless steel panel, how do we make the stainless steel panel flush with the tile? The tile is a lot thicker. Should the stainless steel panel go down between the wall and the quartzite? Should it bend when it hits the quartzite and attach to the back of the rangetop trim?


Thanks for any advice.




Comments (63)

  • Peke (Patti)

    " The non-combustible material need not extend horizontally past the initial barriers thickness. The initial barrier should consist of materials such as ceramic tile, cement backer board, stainless steel (.032” Thick) or other non-combustible material. "


    Horizontal??? The countertop??? Confusing!


    I read about ceramic spacers and a 1" gap behind a heat shield in front of stoves, but they were talking about solid fuel burning stoves like wood stoves. Everything else said to go by manufacturer's installation requirements. Bluestar used words instead of pictures and the sentences are confusing. I am an English major, and I couldn't figure it out.


    Here is what Dacor says to do. They were specific. 2.5".



    M, the problem is the cabinets were put in place 6 or 7 years ago. The steel panel attaches with screws to the island trim, from what I understand. So that means I will have a steel panel which will stick out 3" from the wall. I would not even be able to clean behind it.


    Here is a picture of what Bluestar engineers told me to do on the drywall below and behind the rangetop. The black piece is the granite 6" x 36". They said it was to protect the drywall behind the rangetop. They said I did not need anything but a stone or tile backsplash on the wall ABOVE the countertop.





    I have emailed Bluestar again...


    Thanks.

  • Peke (Patti)

    I kept the original Bluestar instructions on my computer. I also kept a revised Bluestar instructions that was emailed to me after my Bluestar was installed. The revised document showed the back guard and the 1" gap, but the original document did not.


    I also read my Broan installation document. It said the hood was equipped with Heat Sentry. See below. Not once has it ever turned on, even when we were not using it. I made stir fry the other night and it never turned on. I guess the installer did not bother to read the installation guide. I guess he installed it "like he always does" instead of actually reading.


    This is why people get so mad at contractors. We count on them to be professional and READ instructions before installing something. Grrrrr! We count on them to know and FOLLOW the codes. I hate being the person who questions the contractor because I know it makes them mad, but I guess I am going to have to be that person.


    I have no idea what to do about making the wall fireproof now.




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  • kaseki

    Yes, one has to earn a living to pay for the work while somehow supervising the work so at least one person has read the directions (maybe the only person who can read).

    W.r.t. M's conjecture. M, your interpretation is different than mine, if I understood you. If you put into place a 1 inch protective assembly intended to reduce the distance to combustible material from 6 inches to 3 inches, then the device being protected against can be 3 inches from the wall whether the protective assembly is mounted on the wall or on the device.

    The IMC is not the last word here. What UL tells the stove manufacturer based on UL's analysis is the last word. (One hopes this is also what the manufacturer tells the customer.) So, if as is usual the customer uses a protective device (backguard) mounted to the stove that is rated for use against combustible walls, then what ever distance results for the stove body is acceptable. If UL approved a granite slab for a protective device, then that is OK also. The issue for UL is what happens at the wall if there is a pan fire; that is, what temperatures result.

    The bump out of the hood is not really relevant here to the stove position, and in any case, even if the stove were against the wall the bump out would likely aid capture unless the hood is already deeper front to back than most. Some side skirt addition at the hood could also help.

    I think the following is actually fairly clear(ish), but then I are an engineer.

     This appliance has been designed to be installed directly against rear walls and side base cabinets. It cannot be installed directly against tall side cabinets, side walls, tall appliances or base cabinets extending beyond 24 inches [610 mm]. ...

    * All rangetops require a backguard. Most models have the option of using: grate height trim; island trim; 6” inch standard; 17” inch hi-back; 24” inch high shelf.

     If you are using an island trim or grate height trim, a six inch clearance between the back of the rangetop and a combustible surface is required. If an island trim is to be used without this six inch clearance, the back wall must be constructed using non-combustible and heat resistant materials that extend below the top surface of the range a minimum of six inches.


    To me, the above implies by double-negative exception that if the 6-inch, 17-inch, or 24-inch backguards are used, the range top can be put against the wall, even if the wall is not constructed of non-combustible material.

    My conclusion: Buy the 6 inch or higher backguard, mount it to the rangetop, and push the range top back against the wall.

    Peke (Patti) thanked kaseki
  • M

    @kaseki, I think I understand why the two of us get slightly different numbers. Correct me, if I'm still misunderstanding.

    You are giving an example of mounting a 1" assembly to the back of the stove. And yes, in that case, you'd measure 3" from the back of the assembly. If it can be installed in a way that doesn't protrude past the unprotected back of the range, then you get the 3" clearance that you quoted. This is the exact scenario that you get when installing the manufacturer's backguard.

    On the other hand, I was trying to answer what options are available for wall mounted protective assemblies. While a slab of granite isn't rated for this purpose, I was wondering whether it could be replaced with a similar assembly that had a 1" air gap.

    I'm not quite sure myself whether the IEC guidelines cover that scenario. But if they do, that's how you'd get a 4"+ distance from sheetrock to the back of the range -- with the 1" assembly somewhere in between.

    If feasible, that would look a little nicer than the backguard installed on the range.

    All of that seems moot though, as if doesn't really help in this particular situation. The existing cabinets don't allow for a 4" distance. A proper raised backguard mounted to the range appears to be the best and only choice. Maybe some decorative trim could hide the extra 3".

    See https://www.houzz.com/discussions/5539959/miele-gas-range-self-clean-issue-with-dupont-zodiac-quartz-backsplash for examples of why this is important.

    Peke (Patti) thanked M
  • kaseki

    And back to the original question. Given a high enough backguard, dump the quartzite behind the cooktop. Move the cooktop back to the wall. Use SS if you want on the wall. Space it to tile thickness with backer board or whatever works. Or, just tile all the way across. SS will be easier to clean, but also look worse if fingerprinted. I'd actually think hard about selecting the 24-inch shelf backguard. Commercial hood testing showed, to the surprise of the testers, that a shelf does not degrade capture effectiveness of a hood (commercial hood in the experimenter's case).

    Peke (Patti) thanked kaseki
  • M

    I think the problem is that the lower cabinets and the countertop have been custom made to be 3" deeper than normal. So, pushing the appliance back might not be an option.

    Extra deep counters are generally really nice. But 3" is an awkward number. 6" would have simplified things a lot. But I doubt that it is still possible to pull the lower cabinets forward some more.

    Peke (Patti) thanked M
  • Peke (Patti)

    No, not possible. Moving forward or back to the wall will require a new cabinet.




  • kaseki

    Ah, so. I was thinking, I guess, that with plastering just concluded, the cabinets weren't actually in place yet. In that case, how about mounting the 6-inch or greater backguard to the wall, removing the island trim backpiece, and putting a SS piece in the remaining +/- 2 inches behind the rangetop and in front of the backguard. Alternatively, steel treated to look like the rangetop metal below the grates might be possible as a filler strip.

    Edit: the grate height "backguard" might also be needed to provide any needed vent slots.

    Peke (Patti) thanked kaseki
  • Peke (Patti)

    That is what I was originally going to do until I heard about needing a 1" gap behind the metal. A piece of steel will be thinner than the finished tile will be, so I did not know what to do about that.

    I can get a piece of steel and have it folded where it attaches to the rangetop then bends 90° angle by wall, then up to the hood, then another 90° angle to attach it to the 3" gap behind the vent hood...somehow.


    Someone suggested I use can spray foam to fill in the holes in the drywall that the installers left, but I was afraid it would not be fireproof. The steel could close the vent off, but I would still have wasps getting inside the walls above the steel.


    Someone

  • Peke (Patti)

    Oops, the wasps entry was another post about the vent hood and stainless steel panel.






    All sorts of holes to seal so wasps can't come in. Attic to the walls, I guess.

  • Peke (Patti)


    The sheetrock, the wood cabinet above the vent hood, and the vent hood on top. Big old hole in the wall.


    Sorry it is blurry. 1 piece of steel bent it the right spots. Still need to figure out what to do with fireproofing the wall. And what to do about the tile being thicker than the steel panel.



    3 " gap behind the steel on the bottom of the picture. I should be able to screw it on there. Replacing the baffles will hide the screws.


    But, I need to seal the drywall holes first.

  • kaseki

    Not the same and not to code. Use a real approved Bluestar backguard at the wall. Use sheet metal to fill the two-inch gap between backguard and cooktop. If you want, add sheet metal to the wall between the backguard and the hood. You could also use the manufacturer's sheet metal on the wall, then mount the approved backguard to it then add the sheet metal piece between the backguard and the cooktop.

    If you do what you drew, then you would have to add a blackguard to the sheet metal at the wall. In either case, you can dispense with the island backguard and use a grate level one.

    .

    Peke (Patti) thanked kaseki
  • Peke (Patti)

    My GC said he has not found anything in the residential codes. He found it in commercial codes though.


    I can't use BS backguard because it would be impossible to clean behind since it will stick out 3" from the wall. I wouldn't be able to get my hand behind it.


    Bluestar said I do not need to use the island trim, but did not say what I would replace the island trim with. They said I would need "some protection" for 6" but did not say what to use.



  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC

    "This is why people get so mad at contractors. We count on them to be professional and READ instructions before installing something. Grrrrr!"


    And contractors who tell potential clients things they don't want to hear because they make a job more expensive watch these same potential clients shop for contractors who offer to do what the client wants for less money. So go get two more bids and burn your house down. My name ain't on it.

  • M

    Joe, it's always fun to read your insightful comments. I think you might be channeling your inner Sophie here. Here pithy commentary is dearly missed.

  • Peke (Patti)

    Joseph, that was a "drive by shooting". I believe you have said that same comment many times on other posts. Sometimes, it is true! Sometimes, not.


    In my case, I never choose the lowest bid or the bid with the best recommendations. Where I live, people make up recommendations or have friends and family members lie about things.


    I live in a very rural lake area with a gas station and a post office and a Dollar General. That's it. Two hour drive to competent contractors. Some will charge $300.00 just to drive here to make a bid, and some will not bother at all. They have plenty of business without driving, and I get that. I have no problem paying trip charges, except when two appliance repairmen charge me a trip charge then tell me they can't fix it. They knew in advance how much the oven weighed, what brand, which parts, etc.


    So, not everyone lives in a city with competent contractors. I have had "electricians" lie about licenses and insurance they supposedly had. When I checked with my state board, the "electricians" left quickly without asking for payment. Happens a lot here with other contractors.


    I had my heat/air units replaced (2 of them) 6 years ago, and they were supposed to install a pan under the units in the two attic locations. They did not put one of the pans under the upstairs unit where it would catch liquid. They put it partially under. Last year, the ceiling got wet so we turned the heat/ac off. Then the ceiling fell. 4x6 foot hole and the carpet was ruined. I am still trying to get them to fix the pan. It has been almost a year. I can't fix the ceiling until the leak is fixed. This is the kind of contractors we have here. Redoing something costs them money and they don't want to do the repair for free. Their fault entirely so it should be no charge.


    I wish we had someone of your expertise near us!


  • M

    I guess, we are all in agreement on one thing. Your contractors leave something to be desired. It really sucks when that happens -- even more so, if all of the contractors in your market are like that.

    At that point, as a homeowner, the only viable solution is often that you have to do all the leg work. Learn all the details. Read up on technical and code issues. Review all of the workmanship. Approve choice of all materials.

    If that isn't possible, then it might require hiring a capable architect who is willing and able to work remotely and take on some of these responsibilities.

    All of that costs money. Sometimes, seemingly cheaper parts of the country can turn out to have hidden costs that can really balloon. I don't envy your situation.

    Peke (Patti) thanked M
  • Peke (Patti)

    M, Yeah! We chose our quartzite slab and the fabricator picked it up. Then the fabricator switched it for a cheaper one when he measured and cut the perimeter countertop wrong.


    We never thought about capable contractors when we moved to the lake for retirement. Now we are wanting to finish the house and sell so we can move back to the city/suburbs.

    Every contractor I have ever worked with near the city did great work so I have never had to think about this stuff. We finally found a GC (husband and wife team) who does great work, but we have to wait a long, long time for them. We've been waiting since August for him to work on our upstairs. He said to empty the upstairs and he would begin late August. Everything is in our living room and bedroom. We have paths to walk around stuff.

    Kaseki, the drywall was finished 7 years ago...another bad contractor. Every cut out he made with a rotary tool was bad. 35 recessed lights...ALL with holes larger than the light trim. All electrical, speaker, and internet wiring cut with his tool. We asked him to fix it, but he said he didn't know how. He skipped one whole section of textured wall in our kitchen, and he will not come out to fix it.

    Click on the picture. You can see the hole was too big and he tried to fix it on the left and the right sides. See the webbing stuff sticking out? We had to buy all new trim rings to try to cover up his mistakes.



    Another one. Left side where he patched it, and right side still has hole into the attic.


    This one was about a 3" gap above the switch plate. He thinks it looks fine.



    I am confused about the BS backguard. I thought it attached to the rangetop itself where the island trim is. I thought it was a vertical piece that goes from the trim up which would leave a 3" gap between the back guard and the wall. Are you saying that I can put the backguard (6", 17", or 24" tall) directly on the wall? No need to have it attached to the island trim/rangetop?

    Bluestar BACKGUARD

     If you are using an island trim or grate height trim, a six inch clearance between the back of the rangetop and a combustible surface is required. If an island trim is to be used without this six inch clearance, the back wall must be constructed using non-combustible and heat resistant materials that extend below the top surface of the range a minimum of six inches.

    (It says 6" BELOW the countertop. This is why they told me to put the piece of granite on the wall BELOW the quartzite countertop. )

    So, that entire kitchen wall SHOULD have been constructed differently or at least a 36" wide section where the rangetop is should have had metal studs and NO drywall. What do you use if not drywall???? How high up should the non-combustible wall go? To the ceiling?

    Backguard Installation

     All backguards follow the same basic installation. Remove rear grates, slide backguard over rear of unit, align holes, use hardware supplied to fasten backguard to unit. A minimum of six sheet metal screws (more depending on width) are to be installed, three on each end and more along the bottom edge.

     Remove the two rear ring grate/top grates from the cooktop surface. Sheet metal screws must be installed - down - into the cooktop support. Screws are installed on each end ring grate/top grate position. Replace the removed grates.

    And I can have a horizontal stainless steel piece made to cover the 3" gap from the wall to the venthood? Connect it somehow?

    It looks like I either need to take out cabinets, vent hood, and rangetop, then either.....

    1. Remove drywall and wood 2x4s and change them to metal studs and add something besides drywall to cover the studs and insulation, then put it all back together.

    OR

    2. Remove the rangetop, 3" quartzite piece, rangetop cabinet. Have a new cabinet made that is flush against the back wall, and buy a backguard ($1000), install backguard, rangetop and new cabinet. Tallest backguard I can buy is 17" because I don't want a shelf. What do I put above the 17" backguard? Tile? I have never seen a picture of a 17" backguard with tile above.

    #2 option sounds much cheaper.

    Kaseki, what can I do to close up the holes where the vent is connected? Can I use spray foam?

  • M

    You are correct, the backguard installs on the range. But there was some brainstorming here, whether maybe you could install it on the wall using some improvised mounting mechanism. And then still make it work somehow. I see problems with that approach, as it acts both as a backguard and as a vent. But it's conceivable that it could be made to work -- even if it would certainly not be UL tested in that configuration.


    My original suggestion actually went a slightly different way. I was contemplating whether you could continue using Bluestar's island trim that you already own. But you would then ask your contractor to build their own double-layered stainless steel backguard that goes behind your current range. I still think that's doable. But it might be more difficult than what you trust your contractor to do.


    So, I'd instead spend my time on figuring out a solution to cover that 3" gap. That way, you can install Bluestar's tall backguard in the regular configuration and still make it look pretty.


    I would fill the gap with a piece of stainless steel trim, that a metal fabricator should be able to make for you pretty easily. But that again assumes that you are in a more "civilized" part of the country. Out in the country side, you might or you might not be able to find somebody who has the tools for cutting and forming stainless steel.


    You might be able to mail order a suitable piece, if you can make precise drawings. But that assumes things aren't shut down everywhere thanks to COVID-19.


    And your experience with the sheetrock repairs is really frustrating. Sheetrock is really the easiest thing to work with. It's messy, and if you don't have experience working with it, it involves a good amount of sanding. But it's not really difficult. Even a dedicated homeowner could do a better job than what your contractor did. That's so disappointing to see. I feel for you.

  • kaseki

    Wow, wow, wow!! A serious homeowner (defined as a tool hound, to start) could do a better job of hole cutting. It just requires the correct hole saw and mandrel for the particular application (why I have way more than a dozen sizes). My guess is that he used a sheetrock router (sort of a hand die grinder with a carbide router tip) with a very unsteady hand.

    Those patch jobs should have wood backing, in part, and then be repetitively sanded and mudded until the wall is flat over a decent area.

    "All electrical, speaker, and internet wiring cut with his tool." At a minimum, the electrical cutting is a hazard and needs to be repaired. And it is against code to just patch stuff up in an inaccessible area. Depending on the cuts, one or two boxes may need to be used for reconnection. If the conductors are intact, not broken, and not in danger of shorting together, then maybe taping can be used to protect the overall cable.

    On to the range top. The six inch below rule only applies if the island trim is used against the sheetrock. So I'm going to ignore this as it doesn't apply to the options I see.

    Option 2 is certainly the simplest solution descriptively. I can't answer what people do. I would probably put stainless steel between the backguard and the hood area.

    The alternative option (3) that I had in mind is described somewhere above, but let me iterate it. Use island trim or grate trim on the cooktop. Mount a large enough backguard to the wall. This combination may not be recognized by UL, but should provide the needed protection per the various sources we know about. Replace the 3-inch quartzite strip with a stainless steel strip. Someone has to fab it. It would likely require some support, and for that I would obtain steel angle from a hardware store to support it from underneath as an inflammable material.

    I have not yet truly understood what exactly the holes are. They seem to be in some odd relationship to the hood, but perhaps that is because the hood is offset from the wall. I would use red electrical firestop foam. I would also be sure that if the hood edge is not at the wall, then a stainless steel strip was used between the hood and the wall. It could be incorporated into the SS panel that might be put on the wall between the hood and the backstop of either option 2 or 3.

    Last, when people move to remote areas, they should recognize that they are embracing an underlying assumption that they intend to replace civilization with their own labor. This requires study/observation to learn new techniques, and tooling up to be able to perform them. Else, one has to become more primitive in living conditions, 'cause there ain't no nearby support for complexity.

  • Peke (Patti)

    Yes, electrician had just replaced all electrical while the ceiling was gone, so he had to replace it all again. He did not mind, but I did. Cost me double! Plus electrician had to crawl through the attic this time since it was no longer gutted. Not electrician's fault though. My GC will fix all the drywall mess if I ever see him again.


    I think you are both saying the same thing. I think the problem is that I have never seen a backguard so I can't explain it to my GC. I am sorry, but I am really trying to understand based on your words. I bet you feel like you are beating a dead horse! Thank you for trying.



    M,


    "as it acts both as a backguard and as a vent."

    I can't figure out how it acts as a vent on a rangetop. I understand if had an oven below it. Heat rises, so a lot of heat should not go down below the burner. Most of the heat goes around the bottom of the pot and up.


    "have GC build their own double-layered stainless steel backguard."

    So it must be off the drywall by 1". Or do you mean 2 layers without an air gap between them? If there is a 1" bent edge that keeps it off the wall on all 4 sides, that leaves a 1" air gap. Will there be some support in the middle of it? Otherwise when I clean in, it will flex and bend in the center. I have never seen a BS backguard so I don't know what it looks like except for words describing it.


    "you can install Bluestar's tall backguard in the regular configuration and still make it look pretty."

    If I use BS's backguard and attach it to the rangetop, I can't get my hand behind that backguard in the 3" gap to clean behind it. Lots of dust can get between the back guard and the wall except my hand will not fit.


    " I would fill the gap with a piece of stainless steel trim, that a metal fabricator should be able to make for you pretty easily. But that again assumes that you are in a more "civilized" part of the country. Out in the country side, you might or you might not be able to find somebody who has the tools for cutting and forming stainless steel. ".

    Which gap? The horizontal gap from wall to vent hood or do you mean the 3" horizontal gap on top of my 3" quartzite strip behind the rangetop? I think my GC can get one made that is sort of like my drawing where the vertical back wall of SS bends at a 90° horizontal angle and meets the vent hood where the 3" gap is. The problem is that I have no idea how to draw it out for him if it must have that 1" air gap. I looked online again today for a detailed drawing of the backguard and have not found one. I can't find any BS installation instructions for a backguard. I will send BS an email.



    Kaseki-


    "On to the range top. The six inch below rule only applies if the island trim is used against the sheetrock. So I'm going to ignore this as it doesn't apply to the options I see. "


    Yes, I should have had an option 3 of using the island trim. We are using the island trim currently and would like to continue to use it if possible.



    "I have not yet truly understood what exactly the holes are."


    He just cut the holes way too big. The hole where the wiring goes was about 6". The wood shown is the underside of the upper cabinet above the vent hood. Vent hood vents to the back instead of venting up. When my GC was installing the siding, the exterior vent hood shutter fell off the wall because the original guy did not attach it to anything. He just stuck it in the old vinyl siding.


    " I would use red electrical firestop foam.


    Will look for red electrical firestop foam for the holes in sheetrock. I think we can do that ourselves. Going to Lowe's today.


    "If hood edge is not at the wall, then a stainless steel strip was used between the hood and the wall. It could be incorporated into the SS panel that might be put on the wall between the hood and the backstop of either option 2 or 3. "." I guess that is the bottom of vent hood where the 3" gap is. I can get that piece made and have holes predrilled so it can be attached to the vent hood.


    "Use island trim or grate trim on the cooktop. Mount a large enough backguard to the wall."


    So, at least a 6" tall backguard going up the vertical back wall EVEN with drywall behind it. But it cannot be flat to the wall. It must have a 1" air gap? Then I need to figure out what to do with the rest of the wall above the 6" backguard. I am going to try to draw it. Is the back guard basically a shield? Not a vent?


    " Replace the 3-inch quartzite strip with a stainless steel strip. Someone has to fab it. It would likely require some support, and for that I would obtain steel angle from a hardware store to support it from underneath as an inflammable material. "


    So, we can't leave the 3" quartzite strip behind the island trim? Can we just cover the quartzite with stainless steel since there is granite down the wall under the quartzite strip?


    Could the back guard go between the wall and quartzite? Like remove the grout and slide it down in that crack? I guess it can't since it has to be 1" air space.


    I am going to try to draw it and post the picture in a few minutes.


  • Peke (Patti)

    Backguard #1. Tile above it all the way to vent hood with a SS piece to cover gap from wall to vent hood.



  • Peke (Patti)


    Or backguard #2. 30" tall with a 90° angle (upside down L shape) to cover gap.

    No that will not work because the vent hood gap is 42" wide and the back guard is 36" wide.




  • Peke (Patti)

    Not good at drawing 3-D.

    Am I close?


    Except for the part that touches the countertop quartzite behind the island trim...I can't figure out how to draw that.




  • Peke (Patti)

    This might help.

    The stainless steel piece is what the baffles hang on. It slips on and off to clean.

    I will not attach anything to it.



    Below- I removed the metal bracket.

    Where the back of the vent hood is dark gray metal is where I think I should attach the screws based on where wall studs are. Am I correct? I don't know what the gray metal is made of. I don't know what kind of screws to buy. Sheet metal screws? Washers?







    3" gap in which SS piece will attach from backguard to vent hood.





  • Peke (Patti)

    What about a tempered glass backguard?




  • kaseki

    Sorry for the delayed response; my schedule today precluded taking time for this before now.

    Metal: (Like all your questions, they are difficult to answer from a distance.) The gray metal is probably "as rolled" stainless steel. The bright shiny stuff may be polished stainless steel, or some thinner steel with a chrome plating. Can't tell from here.

    Fasteners: There are several basic types that might be relevant for metal to metal, excluding rivets. Machine screws: these need to have tapped threads in the backing metal, or loose nuts, or nuts forced into the metal. The fronting metal needs to have a clearance hole. You can look up the diameters of these and relevant drill bit letters or numbers on line, I expect. Ideally, a washer and lock washer is used under the nut. A washer may be used under a screw head also depending on circumstances.

    Sheet metal screws: these are similar but cut their own thread into the backing material. Coarse thread types require more backing material thickness than finer thread types, although in some cases a single deep thread will work. In general, the backing material has to be thick enough to accommodate three threads. For example, electrical boxes are designed to allow tapping to achieve three threads using 6-32, 8-32, and 10-32 thread forms screws. Stainless steel is very hard and does not lend itself to thread forming using regular of stainless sheet metal screws. Hardened SS thread forming sheet metal screws exist that will cut a thread during insertion.

    Wall mounting usually requires a screw that will cut its way into wood. The screw should be long enough to go through the sheetrock and provide at least a half-inch thread distance in the wood stud. Mounting to sheetrock itself requires fasteners designed for the purpose.

    Backguard and wall covering: There seems to be some confusion there. A six-inch high by 1-inch thick (gapped) assembly the width of the cooktop acquired from the cooktop manufacturer is a backguard. Other heights may be available. Any flat single sheet of stainless steel mounted on the wall behind the backguard, or above the backguard, is a wall covering providing a cleaning surface but not providing a heat barrier. I wouldn't use glass for a wall covering unless it was tempered against any likely temperature stress from unequal heating.

    Hood gap filler: I would probably have a "U" shaped piece of stainless-steel sheet made that allowed me to attach it to the hood using holes drilled in the hood from the inside, high enough up to not interfere with the shiny piece. You may need several carbide bits (through hole size and thread size) to cut into the sheet metal hood and U device. This can be tricky for several reasons that hopefully someone who can help you will recognize.

    "So, we can't leave the 3" quartzite strip behind the island trim? Can we just cover the quartzite with stainless steel since there is granite down the wall under the quartzite strip?" The quartzite is not inflammable and is in the zone that is supposed to be protected by using a backguard.

    I don't see a way around buying the correct height backguard. Either it is mounted to the wall, or it replaces the island trim backguard.

    If it is mounted to the wall, a two-inch strip of SS will be needed between the backguard and the cooktop, with or without the island trim. If mounted to the cooktop, then either a 3-inch strip is used behind it, or if mounted at the backguard top height, (mini shelf), it would be four inches. In the latter case some sort of formed sides would be needed.

    kas

  • Kathi Steele

    From AJ Madison....the pictures did not load.

    BlueStar Rangetop Backguard Options Island Trim Back Allows flush-mounting into an island. Oven vents through top of back. (Shown on 36" Model)

    6" Low Profile Back Protects the back wall while allowing for custom treatment. (Shown on 24" Model)

    17" Backguard Provides commercial aesthetics and professional style. (Shown on 48" Model)

    24" High Shelf Produces a true gourmet professional look while providing a convenient holding area for plates and prepared food. (Shown on 36" Model)

    https://assets.ajmadison.com/ajmadison/itemdocs/RGTNB364CFTBV1_specs.pdf


    Peke (Patti) thanked Kathi Steele
  • Kathi Steele

    Also, from the BlueStar FAQs......

    Do I need to have my range professionally installed?
    Yes, it is highly recommended that a qualified technician install your BlueStar product AND complete the Manufacturer’s Performance Checklist included in the manual. For a list of qualified technicians in your area, please contact your BlueStar dealer.

    Peke (Patti) thanked Kathi Steele
  • Peke (Patti)

    Hi Kathy, yes I have seen all of those. I just can't find a close up of a backguard. Installed by professional 6 years ago.

    Thanks!


    Kaseki, I did not think rocks would burn. Learned something new! Another new Bluestar rep responded again yesterday and said... " If you are using the island trim, the heat resistant material is part of the trim package that extends down the back of your range."


    He said, the rangetop is 7/7/8" tall below the island trim. He said with the thickness of the quartzite and the granite on the wall that the rangetop butts up to, that is all that is needed. He said it is the wall directly behind the 7 7/8" height of the rangetop that needs protected, not the wall 6" above the rangetop.


    I hope my GC figures it out.


    Thanks for the info on screws, etc. I must educate myself to watch what contractors are doing. I hate second guessing people. Nobody likes to be watched or questioned, but I will do what I have to. Thanks again.

  • Peke (Patti)

    M and Kaseki,


    If I just need 1" of air space between the stainless steel and drywall, could I tile the backsplash then put a piece of tempered glass on top of the tile with a 1" air space? (Using the island trim)


    I thought of another option.


    Bring the rangetop out an additional 3". It might not require a new base cabinet.


    However, I don't know what to do with the 3" strip of quartzite. I can remove it, but what would I replace it with?


    Thanks,

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC

    Glass is just as noncombustible as stainless steel, so I don't see why it wouldn't work. Make sure there's an airspace at the top and bottom to create a chimney effect, washing the heat from the tile. Detail carefully so the glass is easily removable for cleaning please.

    Peke (Patti) thanked Joseph Corlett, LLC
  • kaseki

    Please keep in mind two related issues: First, the flamability of exposed materials, and second, the degradation of materials (such as wood) that are subjected to heat above their ratings via conduction. Hence, the issue of protecting sheetrock (even tiled) as well as the studs behind the sheetrock.

    I can only advise on this subject that one either exactly follow the directions in the manufacturer's published installation guide, or follow whatever seems approved as an alternative in the International Codes that address the subject.

    Ideally, before one is in extremis, one consults the local code enforcement authority for their view of the potential solutions. As one once pointed out to me semi-facetiously, the purpose of code enforcement is to reduce lawyers' income.

    Peke (Patti) thanked kaseki
  • Peke (Patti)

    Joseph, thanks. I didn't think about how dirty the glass would get behind it. That would be a pain.


    I finally found the codes. IMC says to use IRC.



  • Peke (Patti)

    Did I read the chart right? I can put a stainless steel panel with a 1" air gap directly on the wall. I don't need to attach it to the island trim. That reduces the clearance from 6" to 2"?





    If I cover the quartzite behind the rangetop, do I also need a 1" air gap between the quartzite and stainless steel in the gap behind the rangetop?


    Thanks

  • kaseki

    "Did I read the chart right? I can put a stainless steel panel with a 1" air gap directly on the wall. I don't need to attach it to the island trim. That reduces the clearance from 6" to 2"?" Reading the chart "right" is a bit of a parsing job, but I think the answer is yes. However, it seems that there is a caveat that an approved assembly is needed. I would be comfortable with the 1-inch offset SS panel.

    Not sure about your second question. I would remove the quartzite and fill the gap with a piece of SS.

  • Peke (Patti)

    What would be your preference for spacers?

    It suggests washers, electrical conduit, pipe, or tubing. Metal? Rubber? PVC?


    Order of installation if I use SS Backguard?


    1. Fill holes in drywall with the fireproof spray foam. Attach the U-shaped, SS filler piece between drywall and back of vent hood.


    2 . Remove the quartzite:

    Put a piece of SS where the quartzite was, but what goes under the stainless steel? Do I put a piece of wood under the SS? The SS will not have anything supporting it. Obviously it will have to have 4 bent sides to attach it to the wall, cabinet, and rangetop.


    ???? The heat from the back of the rangetop will be touching the drywall in the gap where the quartzite was removed. I think that wall has to be protected 6" below the top of the countertop. About 1.5" will not have protection.


    3. Install a backguard with a 1" gap after installing the horizontal 3" piece of SS (where quartzite was). The backguard will sit on top of the SS piece behind the rangetop.


    ???? The top of the SS backguard can't go up to the vent hood and can't butt up against the SS filler piece because it has to be open. The backguard has to be 6" tall minimum. I think that would look horrible to see that 36" x 6" x 1" open gap.


    4. Tile the backsplash.


    ???? Then, the backguard will stick out about 1/2" more than the tile will. They will not be flush or there would be no gap. But, if I tile on the left, on the right, and above the backguard, won't the tile cover half of the 1" open gap?



    Order of installation if I use tempered glass:


    1. Spray the fireproof foam into the drywall holes. Attach SS filler piece to vent hood.


    2. Tile the entire backsplash with glass tiles.


    3. Attach Tempered glass with 1" gap. Open top and sides? Or open top and bottom? Fireproof spacers.


    Tempered glass is going to be cheaper and easier to understand.




    Tempered

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC

    I'd consider ripping the top edge off a Stylemark 110424 (page 15), ripping some vent slots, sticking it to the rear wall with Tec7, then sliding the glass down the ripped and refinished top and bottom channels. Of course aluminum is noncombustible.

    This eliminates drilling the glass. Glass doesn't like drill holes near heat. No snug fit please and polish all glass edges. If you break one, buy a new one and slide it down in minutes. Super easy cleaning and will look great.

    Peke (Patti) thanked Joseph Corlett, LLC
  • PRO
    The Cook's Kitchen

    Just attach the manufacturer required backguard. That’s all that’s needed.

    Peke (Patti) thanked The Cook's Kitchen
  • kaseki

    I imagined the counter top gap quartzite replacement SS spacer to be attached to the counter at the two sides. There are myriad schemes possible. Given that the SS has bent over front and back sides, then if the SS thickness is, say, 0.060, it should be very stiff length wise. This can be improved by also attaching it to the wall.

    Or, the backguard can go 6 inches above the counter and six inches below, and the gap SS will only need to be two inches wide.

    Backguard spacers can be chosen for tolerable appearance, so long as they are non-combustible. Spacers that go on machine screws of various sizes and lengths made of aluminum and/or brass are available from electronics supply distributors, and from well equipped hardware stores a large fastener inventory. For impressing old-school electrical engineers, steatite spacers could be used (made from fired soapstone).

    If I were you I would consider the Pro's comments as architecturally useful and perhaps a better solution than my comments related to what one could do to solve a problem. Just like range hoods themselves, selecting among ad hoc solutions is also a cost/appearance/performance trade. Unfortunately, in this case the best solution, cutting the cabinets so the cooktop is properly positioned and the proper backguard can be used, is also perhaps the most expensive solution, although I imagine it would remove a lot of DIY effort.

    Peke (Patti) thanked kaseki
  • Peke (Patti)

    Cook's Kitchen, I would have to redo upper and lower cabinets, but thanks.



    Joseph, I think I understand. The glass would still have a 1" air gap, but it would slide in and out of the "grooves" made by the Stylemark #110424. I would still need to use some kind of spacer to make the 1" gap.


    I think I would use a smaller piece of glass. Maybe 36-42" wide x 10-12" tall?? It is 30" from countertop to the vent hood so I could not use a 30" tall piece of glass.


    I am not sure I have wrapped my brain around which piece of #110424 to trim off and which part to keep. You said to cut off the 1/2" top. The glass would slide into the vertical 1 3/4" tall section that is left. The bottom 1/2" vertical piece would be glued to the backsplash tile. The 1 3/4" section would give it the air gap. The glass would be closer to the island trim and the stove heat. Maybe I can find one that is only 1" instead of 1 3/4".


    Is this what you meant? Would I put one trim piece for the top of the glass and one for the bottom of the glass? Then the glass would slide to the left or right to remove it? Or were you thinking attach trim piece to the left and right side of the tile, then slide the glass down into the trim? It might be hard to keep the glass from dropping too fast.



    Your idea sounds like it would work well. I like being able to remove the glass easily.


    I wonder if there is some kind of metal "clip" that I could use to keep the glass off the wall 1" and make it easier to remove the glass. Maybe a piece of the clip could rotate open or closed so the glass could either lift out or slide out?


    I think I will start a new post to see if anyone knows what I am talking about.


    Thanks.


  • kaseki

    One hand under to control drop speed; glass and tracks cannot be higher than half the distance to the hood. Tracks establish spacing. (Looks like 1.75 inches with the cut shown.)

    Peke (Patti) thanked kaseki
  • Peke (Patti)

    Well that was a "duh" moment for me! Of course, use one hand to lower and one to slow it down! Geez!


    Still looking for something that rotates so I can just set the glass in place, then rotate the arm to hold it in place. I know I have seen it, but can't remember what it was used for.

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC

    Patti:

    You've got the right idea. Rip the Stylemark just below where your red "glass slides" arrow indicates. Now you have a perfect "U" channel that stands off the wall more than an inch.

    The Stylemark extrusions don't have to be continuous, but I wouldn't make (4) of them less than 4" long to hold the glass.

    Peke (Patti) thanked Joseph Corlett, LLC
  • Peke (Patti)

    I think I might have something...


    The glass could stand vertically. I could attach these clips to the countertop and make sure there is a 1" air gap. If they can hold a 1/2" thick piece of shower glass panel, they should hold a piece of glass for by backguard. They also hold a glass shelf horizontally with items sitting on the shelf.


    The requirement said it could be open on the top and both sides so this should work.








    Or if I wanted to have holes drilled in the glass before it is tempered, I could use the next items to hold the glass 1" off the wall AND have all 4 sides open, as long as I don't let it rest on the countertop. Maybe an inch higher???






    What do you think?

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC

    I think Gary doesn't have any heat generating appliances near his sign.

    Peke (Patti) thanked Joseph Corlett, LLC
  • Peke (Patti)

    Probably not, and I'd bet it is plexiglass!


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