What region are you gardening in? Kinda late to plants peas (hopefully my peas were not too bothered by the 26F temps this morning).

I suppose pick what vegetables you want to eat, start your garden, then look into what you would want to save seeds. There are many types of heirloom peppers and tomatoes, if you do some research, but pretty much too late this year to buy seeds. Common Jalapeno are OP but then they are very easy to find. Pole beans grown vertically are a great way to get a lot of food in a small space, many heirloom varieties to choose from. Cucumbers can be grown vertically also, many to choose from, depending on what you want. Radishes can be grown in a small space quickly, and you can save the seeds if you let them grow up, even eat the seed pods.

Some are bi-annuals, like cabbages, or kale, and carrots. Carrots are good for small spaces, but you need to save seeds the second year.

Check out this website Baker Creek Seeds to look at many different open pollinated vegetables, see what types you might like. Unfortunately with the pandemic food panic, all the online websites seem to be swamped with orders, so it is difficult to buy seeds online this Spring.

Nutrition? Don't worry about cukes. Mostly water. I love cukes, but not for their nutrition.

Be aware that blue spruce is somewhat allelopathic, so until that thoroughly degrades, you may be fighting it somewhat.

Veggies which I find self seed easily are chard and Red Russian kale. I grow new ones by cutting the old plants down and laying the stems in rows where I want a new crop. Runner beans are very easy to keep seed from. Germination is excellent even when stored in a warm kitchen.

Thanks for the input.

Zone 5b/6a in southern Michigan. Today more like 5b with six inches of snow on the ground and more falling!

I didn't know about the allelopathic nature of blue spruce, but I figured with decades of decomposed needles in the soil it would be a problem with acidity so that's why I am planning on raised beds . . . and figuring not a good spot this year for tomatoes and peppers. I usually grow them in pots around the house anyway, just a few for the salads.

I used to work for a nonprofit and grow lots of heirloom tomatoes and also peppers, but not this year. In past years I did not do much seed saving for the tomatoes even though I did a few. I could always get seeds and start them easily so not worth the time back then. So that's why I wanted to get just a few tomatoes going this year for a seed source. Same with peppers.

Yes I know cukes aren't nutritious. I'm thinking I want to see if I can find some cornichons or something else special just for the pickles. I like to make my own pickles because I can make them without high fructose corn syrup, which is what is in most of the inexpensive commercial pickles. I do small batch canning with the pickles so don't need many. Also like that they can be grown "up" on a trellis due to my space issues.

I realize that this year will be mostly growing a few plants to serve as garnishes and seed source. Too small of a garden for much preserving of the crop. Ideally I would devote the space to a salsa garden over the long haul as the soil on the site improves. So just want to get some plants started this year to produce seeds for next. Gonna grow the tomatoes and peppers in pots.

What are some good companions for beans and peas? I'm thinking maybe some oregano, thyme and savory. I already have garlic chives among my roses in another spot. I've heard of people late sowing garlic for next year, so might try that at the end of the season.

I've tried growing some of the smaller squashes, don't really seem to do all that well for me. I tried some cute little yellow patty pans once, they looked cute as the dickens but not good flavor or texture. Maybe I can squeeze some broccoli in, hubs likes that.

Most trees have some degree of allelopathy but it is pretty minimal with Picea pungens. And while conifer needles may be pretty acidic when fresh and attached to the tree, once they fall and gradually decompose they lose that characteristic and become more or less neutral, as does virtually all decomposed plant material.

The concept of conifer needles making a soil overly acidic is a gardening myth. It would take truckloads repeatedly over a period of decades to have any measurable effect :-) One tree shedding annually is not gonna have ANY effect!!

Ok then. I wasn't too worried about it actually. And if I was, easy enough to test soil pH and know for sure if there was any effect of decades of needle drop in that one small spot, and easy enough to amend anyway. I want raised beds due to the spot, easier to keep soil in place that way. Garden shed and driveway on three sides so tight spot.

Blue spruce has well documented allelopathy, at least for weed grasses. Several research papers available on that. So allelopathic that extracts of it are being considered for herbicidal value. Hard to say what effect it has on veggies.

Blue spruce has documented strong allelopathy for grasses at least. Look it up. Extracts of it are considered to be an effective herbicide. Agree that pine needles making acid soil is largely mythology.

That was cool info Dan! Just in general, I haven't seen a lot of plants thrive in spruce wooded areas, but they usually have multiple variables going on. A raised bed with some good compost can't hurt . . . Time will tell, Just gut level I'm thinking it may take a while to create an ideal growing condition there, but no time like the present to start. Also ratcheting up our composting this year . . .

Important because I am using the twigs and branches ground up/chipped as mulch under some hardwood trees in another part of the yard. I had a feeling I needed them to "age out" for a while before spreading. But that's another issue, not vegetable garden oriented. I eventually wanted to plant some forest wildflowers under those trees. Seems like over the log haul the ground up spruce would be ok for wlldflowers. Actually trying to suppress grass, so that's a plus.

Like virtually any plant with any allelopathic tendencies (and there are not many that don't have some), they tend to not be very broadly based but focus rather on specific competing species, with grasses being one of the primary targets.

The main issue with any conifers and the lack of plants growing in direct proximity tends to be the amount of shade involved and the soil moisture and nutrient grabbing attitude of their extensive root systems.

And if the tree has been removed or cut down, the potential for any allelopathy is pretty much moot.

That's true that many plants are somewhat allelopathic. Plants are pretty smart when it comes to hoarding nutrients. But some are more allelopathic than others. That's also true that the allelopathy is largely aimed at competing species, but the aim is pretty broad. Juglone, for example, kills lots of stuff. I think other pines grow very well around spruces. My point was the Blue Spruce is recognized to have strong allelopathy. In many other spruces, the allelopathy isn't strong. That was intended as just a caution. Whether it will kill tomatoes or beans, I really don't know. But if you start seeing effects you don't understand you might consider that. Also true that Blue Spruce allelopathy is only, so far, recognized in extracts. As in, needles and stuff ground up. In this case, the potential for allelopathy isn't the tree anymore, but all the detritus left behind on the ground containing allelochemicals. Plenty of ground up needles and stuff on the ground. A raised bed with imported soil is probably smart. That being said, I believe that composting largely degrades the allelochemicals, so composting that detritus should be OK, notwithstanding the fact that pine needles take a LOT of time to properly compost.

I don't think it's too late for you to start tomatoes from seed. There are many old timers here in zone 6a that won't set out tomatoes till Memorial day. You have 6 weeks to grow some. But you're in zone 5/6. Just do it.

I save seeds from a variety of heirloom tomatoes, Straight 8 cukes, Fordhook, Zucchini, butternut and acorn squash, Lincoln Peas and Kentucky Wonder pole beans. I've saved seeds from radishes and lettuce in the past. I saved seed potatoes from 3 potatoes varieties for this year.

It's too early to plant beans, cukes and winter squash, all of which I direct seed in the ground.

most nutrition per square foot would go to root vegetables... beets, carrots, turnips, etc. in that order. the great thing about beets is you get 2 for 1. awesome greens (superior in terms of taste and nutrition compared to spinach) and the beet to enjoy roasted or canned.

all are also great for pickling.

garlic and onions are also great because they don't require a lot of space. you can grow 9 garlic plants in 1 square foot, green onions are also good..

I wouldn't plant herbs in with the regular vege garden. I did that when I was a rookie gardener, and was still trying to pull some of them 18 years later! Basil and other annuals are OK in the regular garden, but thyme, rosemary, sage and such are perrenials hereand really hard to pull out!

Kale, kale, kale and more kale. I have been growing kale for years and have never been tired of them. They provide something for the table all year long. Right now, we are harvesting a delicacy that money probably buy - Kale florets. (I think I saw it sold once in Costco as "kalelets", which were young shoots, not florets). And then, enough quash to last all winter. Butternut is my favourite.

I was thinking I missed the window for starting tomatoes (had planned on buying them at my traditional plant sale like I do every other year, but it got canceled). Don't really have room to start a lot of plants indoors, but with 8 inches of snow on the ground, I'm rethinking it. I could still start a batch of tomatoes and peppers inside, especially if I just needed them for seeds. I'm wondering about my favorite tomato, Rutgers. Not sure that is open pollinated? I'm not a huge fan of Brandywine, although it is getting to be ubiquitous here. We just don't always have the good weather here for growing them. I always grow the big heirlooms for color and flavor but they're not that prolific, I usually end up making my salsa with a hodge podge of harvest. Anyone have a favorite open pollinated tomato for canning? I tried Costoluto genovese, it tasted nasty and didn't produce, (I got one tomato that survived per plant that I grew in pots) but I blame a lot of that on the growing conditions. Romas have not been all that great for me either in terms of crop, and with my limited space, I'm thinking I want something with a shorter ripening profile. I live in south central Michigan. Some years aren't that great for tomatoes here.

I'm thinking just jalepenos for the peppers. Are they open pollinated? Only certain strains?

Beets is a brilliant idea for a root crop. So versatile and they are pricey in my local grocery. I love every aspect of a beet. Anyone have a favorite open pollinated beet? I love all the different colored ones too.

I hear what you're saying about the herbs but they are easy enough to pull and bees love them.

I love kale too. I'm thinking maybe I might devote another small patch in the yard to a fall harvest garden, later on. I have to be careful not to take on too much, as I am also creating this wildflower shade garden I mentioned, and planting some fruit trees. Kale is easier to find around here than beets, but also pricey when I consider how easy it is to grow.

kale is a good choice, but depending on the stage you'd be harvesting, the plants grow pretty large and take up a lot of room, so unless you're harvesting baby leaves it probably doesn't matter, but for larger cooking kale, i'd probably grow them in some pots rather than a limited-space raised bed.

@cactusjoe1, curious about the type of kale you usually grow. i typically grow the curly type (blue and Siberian) this year decided to try Lacinato (dinosaur) and Premier.

most peppers are generally OP, unless you buy one of those jumbo type Jalopeno peppers (like mucho nacho). i recommend sticking with the smaller type peppers, like mini (jalopeno size) sweet peppers where the plants remain pretty compact, however, these are generally hybrids and not OP.

for beet variety i'd grow early wonder. probably the top choice when it comes to both the greens and beet.

The varieties I grow every year are:

1. Common curly and Winterbor

2. Mini-curly (dwarf greencurled)

3. Lacinato (for kale chips)

4. Red Russian and Red Ursa (my main crop, and the one I grow the most)

5. Siberian (these are huge – I only grow 2 or 3; the leaves get tough quickly, but are good for throwing into broths and stews, are finely sliced for stir fries. Food for kale chips, and fermenting; sugar content goes up in chilly fall)

6. Redbor (mainly ornamental, culinary uses for kale chips and smoothies)

I do experiment with other less common varieties, but in general, avoid spending the high price for seeds of the more “exotic” varieties. I have started growing Kailan (Gai lan) again because it is becoming expensive in the grocery stores.

I let a few of the plants set seeds. The seeds are used for growing micro greens in the winter. Generally, lacinatos an curly leaves are not particularly good for this purpose – so mainly the Red Russian, Red Ursa.

One problem I do have usually towards fall is heavy aphid infestation but I have learnt to live with it.

Well, heirloom tomato seeds are in short supply anyway, so I just experimented with some varieties offered by the Victory seed company. I have not done business with them before, but they got good reviews online in general. Of course all bets are off with shipping with this virus thing, but even if they come late, I can start a few this year and save the rest for next. Also ordered some seeds from Gurney's which is regional for me. I think I can fill in with store bought stuff later in the season, G-d willing. Otherwise enough to get started even if many of the seeds come late. Also ordered some blueberry bushes and rhubarb for two other spots. That along with a couple of planned fruit tree local purchases, will about do it for me in the spring planting department. I'm just going to cover the wildflower areas with mulch and wait until fall to plant much there. I have a few held over plants to get me started this spring anyway.

I had a friend who let his cherry tomatoes rot in place one year, due to being really busy, not purposely. The following year we couldn't keep up with all the "wolf" tomatoes that came up. They were not as sweet as the original cherry ones, but fine for cooking or salsa.

I did order some seeds, and plan on sowing some of them come fall, like peas. Didn't think about snow peas, that is correct about the cost, wowza on that. I though peas would be easy to save and also easy to freeze. But same with snow peas!

Didn't think about asparagus, but I did order a rhubarb plant for another area of the yard. Ordered from Guernsey's, which is in IN. I can get most stuff I want at the local TSC or Family Farm and Home, or even Meijers or Home Depot. All of these are open, just limiting customer presences in some areas of the store. Still not totally off limits. I was just worried about OP stuff. I hadn't planned on that, sort of a pandemic afterthought. Luckily I talked to a friend of mine, and she bought a bunch of seeds at an auction last year, way way more than she or anyone else she knows needs, so she is also sending me some! Stay tuned!