Stax, you deleted your first post, the one I copied only part of. I did not copy the covid part (I should have). That is not what you said and that is not what this thread is about.

It is about the fact that open concept is not selling well right now. I didn't know better when we bought our current home. We don't want to move at all, but if we did, it would not be open concept at all.

Our house was built in the 1960’s and our LR and kitchen are open to each other with a short half wall in between. Then the kitchen opens up to the deck. It really helps in a smaller house. We get a lot of natural light in these rooms.

My house, much as I love it, is sort a weird combination of both. Kitchen open to large eating area, which is open to 625 sq ft great room; the kitchen is semi-open to the great room in that it has an arched pass-through. All this is nice and airy-feeling.

But look in the other direction and there's the staircase to the basement smack dab between the eating area and the kitchen with a half-wall, down that way are the bedrooms. The layout of that half of the house, which includes the front entry, is p*ss-poor. It's almost like half of two different houses were stitched together. In my head I can see where/how to open this up to improve the flow immensely -- this involves taking out a closet which blocks sight lines and moving the staircase. It also involves $$$...sigh...

So, all that to say, just because a house is considered an open or closed concept doesn't mean the floorplan is good. I've been in good and bad examples of both.

I'm working from home, and I put my "work office" in a spare walk-in closet in the basement. My home office upstairs is personal space. I don't want to think about work when I'm not working, which is something I'm struggling with during telecommute -- the lack of separation between work and personal, for me it is stressful and diminishes my work-life balance. So, down in the closet off the spare room I at least don't have to look at all my work stuff when I'm off and I can SHUT THE DOOR and walk upstairs - out of sight out of mind...as much as it can be. And before anyone says anything -- I am very, very grateful to still be employed and realize I'm whining about telecommuting. But that doesn't mean I like it.

My realtor mentioned that people are now looking for houses with floor plans that have areas that can be closed off for on-line learning and work-from-home video meetings. Whether that request will continue will depend on how our society moves forward, I suppose.

Lars the OP said, "Our real estate agent sends us news about the real estate market in the Palm Springs area, and he just said that open plan houses are less desirable now in the Palm Springs area because people want to have the option for more distancing and separation than before."

That is what the thread was about. I again make the point that "You believe that people are so dumb that they prefer walled separation and then spend 8+ hours sharing a bed and time at the table while sharing meals? Separate rooms while watching TV?" (You quoted that.... and then YOU went on to say you "detest" Open Concept.

I have not offered an opinion nor a argument for or against open concept.

I did make the observation that is ridiculous to oppose Open Concept based on a concern for COVID, pointing out you'll share a meal table and bed time in close proximity to others.

I guess that people who are shopping for a house with a closed plan for protection from covid will also need a separate area to store their 100-year supply of toilet paper... ;-)

STAX, I did not delete your comment, you did. Why did you delete the comment if it was not different from what you are now posting, It is very disturbing that you feel the need to defend something no one but you is arguing about. You are the one that said people are DUMB for wanting separation during the day, but sleep together at night. MAKE UP YOUR MIND! NO ONE SAID ANYTHING ABOUT THE VIRUS BUT YOU!

ETA: Blocking this thread, I am tired of you Stax, the idiot.

I honestly prefer houses that don’t have an open plan. My husband and I are renovating our first house and the realtor was telling us how we should knock down a bunch of walls to make the kitchen one with the living room and I wasn’t having it.

This summer, in my area, people are looking for a house with a pool! I don't know if they care about open concept or not.

Stax you are a moron. No one thinks it has anything to do with avoiding the virus. It is rather about being home all the time and wanting space to spread out. A child could understand this.

Y'all... seriously, there's a world of crap going on right now that engenders anger and divisiveness, but open floor plans ain't one of em.

I think there is a happy medium to be had. Older plans with sequestered kitchens, formal dining rooms + breakfast room/nook, formal living rooms + family room/den — that’s just a lot of wasted space (to me). But then for many, the fully open floor plans with kitchen, dining and great room all in one cavernous space may represent the pendulum swinging a bit too far in the other direction.

My house has what I would call an informal floor plan. You walk in to a LR/DR combo. The kitchen is off the DR, with a pocket door that I can shut (but I never do). The kitchen is separate, but close enough to the LR/DR to not feel hidden away. There is no formal LR or DR. There is no wasted space anywhere. This is state-of-the-art architect design ca. 1954 that still lives perfectly 66 years later.

Personally, I prefer a kitchen that I can close off. I also hate seeing a kitchen when I enter a house, unless it is through the back door. I do a lot of cooking, and I like to be able to isolate that activity. I also prefer for there to be no one with me in the kitchen when I am cooking.

I do think the desire now is to have rooms that can be closed off for office use.

Both of our houses are semi-open, and I would be happier if my kitchen in Los Angeles had pocket doors like the one I had in Venice. My kitchen in the Palm Springs area is tucked away from the living room, but it has a nice view of the pool, and I prefer that to having a view of a TV.

I don’t know if there is such a thing as a perfect floor plan as it often depends on who is in the space. When my sons are over I love the open floor plan. If people are staying with us I don’t like it as much. The kitchen is open to the living and dining rooms. There is a big kitchen island. Once the pigeons start lining up at the island thats my hint that it’s show time. I find it exhausting.

Other than feeding times though, there are places to hide despite the all open also opening to the pool and patio. I have a tiny little partially sectioned off space off my bedroom for morning tea and a partially private side patio. I have my converted bedroom art room. Husband has his garage for tinkering which also has a TV for sports, he isn’t much concerned with having a “space” as I am.

Geez... who knew a thread about open concept would turn into name calling.

IMO, open concept houses that end up too open, or hotel like, are not designed well. There are a lot of bad architects and house designers. Just go to BAH forum and look around. The introduction of the "McMansion" did not help. While varying ceiling heights can help, it can also become a jumbled mess.

Do I like all open concept houses? No. Do I like all non-open concept houses? No. Neither do any of you. Like all decorating and design decisions/choices, it comes down to personal preference.

Name-calling is never appropriate.

Odd that name-calling stands in this forum and yet can get you banned in Hot Topics.

The other thing that is a challenge with open plans is fire.

Granted, very few of us will ever experience a house fire, but insurance carriers are documenting much more damage in house fires with open plans.

Separate rooms don’t prevent fires from spreading, but they slow down the spread of the fire. This buys time for firefighters and hopefully reduces the extent of the damage.

I would imagine this factual information might eventually affect insurance rates.

I can see how an open plan would increase one's property insurance, providing the insurance company knows about it.

In Los Angeles, having a fireplace with a chimney increases property insurance because so many chimneys fall down in earthquakes, and I've seen many toppled chimneys. I made sure that the house we bought in L.A. did not have a fireplace or chimney, but I did not have that luxury in Cathedral City. However, we only have a very small gas fireplace here, but we also have a small chimney in the middle of the roof. Of course it is not built of bricks, and so it is probably safer. We did use the fireplace in December, as it can get quite chilly in the desert in the winter in the evenings - into the low 50s. December is the coldest month in Palm Springs with high temperatures averaging around 70° and low temperatures averaging around 44° in the early morning. We got rid of our fire pit in L.A. but kept the one in Cathedral City - at least it is propane and is portable.

The reason that people early in the virus were thinking about having a place for someone that was positive from the virus was so if others in the family were not positive they would not become positive. After hearing what a family member had to do when they developed bladder cancer and the house only had one bathroom I realized that it was important to have an area that could be totally separate from the rest of the family. Most have realized that if one has it the others probably also have it.

I do wonder what the thought difference is between separate for health reasons and senior apartment in a house for family members.

Many things affect homeowners insurance rates. While it’s true in some instances that fire could spread more quickly in an open plan, my rate from a major insurance company is not affected by the fact that it is partially open. What the fire-related premium is affected by is: materials of construction inside and out (including type of roofing), distance from the nearest fire hydrant, distance from the nearest fire station, whether I have a monitored smoke and fire alarm system installed throughout, whether I have a sprinkler system, whether it meets current earthquake standards, and last, but not least, whether I am in a fire-prone area of the country. So I, personally, would worry more about whether a home was well-built and well-situated rather than that its somewhat open architectural design would have any impact on my homeowners insurance. And even if the fire rate was a bit higher for an open plan, it wouldn’t sway me into living in a house I liked less.

I didn't like living in a NYC loft and I don't want to live in a similar space in a SFH. Walls are nice. Walls are good. Much easier to decorate and show art. Quieter. No need to smell leftover cooked fish when in the den watching TV. Multiple options for placing TV. Keeps kitchen disarray out of sight. Nice to have reading hidey holes for quiet.

open plan houses are less desirable now in the Palm Springs area because people want to have the option for more distancing and separation than before

I assume not to slow the virus transmission among household members, but to provide for privacy and work spaces while under quarantine.

Lulu, you are so right about it being much easier to decorate in non-open plans. I’m in a very open plan now and was surprised at how much more challenging it was.

I like rooms and the coziness they provide. Not a fan of walking into a home and see everything wide open. Never have experienced it and really have no desire to either.

We also have a lot of art (much of it in storage), and so having more walls gives us space to hang more paintings. Plus my brother keeps making more paintings.

I do like large rooms, but I don't like cavernous rooms.

I once lived in a storefront in San Francisco that was similar to a NY loft. It has previously been a dance studio, and one long wall was solid mirror with ballet bars. None of my roommates were ballet dancers, and so those weren't all that useful, but we did have 20' ceilings, high enough to install a huge Art Deco chandelier from an old theater in Oakland that was being torn down. I slept in the upper level of one of the store windows, which of course had sufficient drapes. The space was great for parties, and we did have a lot of those, but I'm no longer in my early 20s.

I don't think open concept is a trend, they've been around forever. The house I grew up in was open concept. I moved a ton as a young adult and always preferred the open layout apartments over closed ones. I want my space to feel as big as possible, with the most amount of natural light.

When it comes to wanting separation due to the pandemic: we have other rooms to retreat to, so it works just fine for us.

B F-

I agree..."open" is simply an architectural style. I spent over 50 years growing up in, and then raising a family in, traditional homes with lots of closed spaces. I thought I preferred it and the privacy it afforded. But several years ago I moved into a very modern home where much of the living space is more open, where the ceilings are higher, and where everything is brighter. Every morning I wake up smiling at how the house makes me feel and realize I'd never go back to a traditional style home. But that's just me, and I realize how it doesn't work for some people or some families. It did take living in both styles of homes, though, to make me realize how architecture can affect one's mood and outlook.

One can have varying degrees of agoraphobia/claustrophobia, and so one size does not fit all.

In De Architectura,Vitruvius wrote about the importance of passing through vestibules before entering large rooms and how these should be coordinated. For me, this buffers the experience of entering directly into an open room, but of course some people do not have space for vestibules, and in this case, I find it best if one finds another way to hide the view of the kitchen from the front entrance.

I lived in several Victorians in San Francisco, and I did get tired of the small rooms, especially when I would return from my winter vacations in Mexico, where I would stay in much larger and more open rooms. Climate had a lot to do with it, and ultimately I moved away from SF because I hated the cold weather. I did like the separation of rooms and the option of combining rooms with double pocket doors.

Open plan houses have been popular since the de stijl movement in the early 20th Century, which influenced Le Corbusier. My style today is basically modern, but I do appreciate the complexity of the de stijl architecture.

Lars, you mentioned once living in a converted storefront. I used to dream of that when I was younger! I loved the giant windows and super high ceilings. I would have had so much fun converting a gigantic room into a livable space. I joked with my friends that I'd haul in dirt and sod for the front area, so my living room would be an indoor park with real grass for the carpet. LOL!

Since I have plenty of time at home with no where to go, I've been trying to expand my knowledge with some books on home design, landscaping, interior design, etc. I've recently been reading Sarah Susanka's Home By Design (https://www.amazon.com/Home-Design-Language-House-Susanka/dp/1561586188) and it has been really interesting getting a different perspective about "open" vs "closed" floor plans. She talks about the value of partial views / partial openness and the importance of having spaces besides bedrooms to "get away". She talks about the idea of household members wanting to spend time together but may want to be doing different activities (TV, reading, cooking, homework, etc).

In our current environment there are more household members participating in different activities all at the same time. Suddenly household members who would normally leave the home for their separate activities are trying to accomplish all of these separate activities in the same building at the same time. I'd be curious what degree of "not open floor plan" are most popular right now. Do people just need some separate work spaces? Or are they tired of having the living / kitchen / dining spaces combined?

I think this trend in Palm Spings will last a long while. I like both open and close plan in houses or apartments. Open plan makes common area looks bigger than it is. Close plan would need more sq ft to make common area more comfortable. Now a lot of people are working from home, there is a need for noise control, and family members need distance from sick members. There might be another trend coming up: each bedroom has its own full bath like an inn. :-)

I noticed Victorians are normally smaller in room and kitchen sizes compare to other styles historical homes around here up north. Is it same in CA ?

The OP opened this thread with:

"Our real estate agent sends us news about the real estate market in the Palm Springs area, and he just said that open plan houses are less desirable now in the Palm Springs area because people want to have the option for more distancing and separation than before."

This has nothing to do with your response... or more correctly, your response has nothing to do with the OP's post. lol

Omg. Give it a freaking rest, Stax.

It took Stax two days for that? Just erase it, embarrassing....

"There might be another trend coming up: each bedroom has its own full bath like an inn."

Uh, like...for the average American who can't afford to buy a gargantuan new build or don't have tons of money/disposable income to retrofit their "normal size" house for this? Yea, right....LOL!!! Who comes up with this stuff?

I would adore to find a Victorian with the small separate rooms. Unfortunately, they are in the historic district and cost about 4 or 5 of my house.

mxks, sorry, I came up with that, didn’t made it up out of blue though :-) It could be expensive for a new build, but I think many of the historical homes already have this set up. We are buying a historical home, 3 of the bedrooms have own full baths. 1 bedroom has a half bath, I thought that set up would be great for a family living through conronavirus period.

Sherry, sometimes you could find good priced smaller Victorians in a small town or in the countryside. You just have to hunt them down. Hope you find one in the future. :-)

Nah, we are never moving now. Just have to live with the open floor plan 1965 rancher. I still like them though.

Open floor plan is nice too, You won’t have too many doors to open and close, If you burn your food in the kitchen, the smoke goes out faster. :-) Not questioning about your cooking skill, I burn food all the time, I should have an open floor plan. :-)

Agree with mxks. This is probably not affordable to most people. An historical house did not have that setting initially, so you would have to renovate them and this is probably expensive.

Good for those who can, but Houzz's forums are not representative of the US (or Canada, I imagine) people. This is not a criticism, just an agreement with mxks.

Oh Ok, thanks for the input. That’s nice to know.. It must have been costly for the previous owners to set up like that.

We are planning on buying in the Palm Springs area next year, I will be looking for an open plan. It will be a second home, smaller than our main home. Our current house is a partially open floor plan. LR and DR are open to one another, step down to LR. There is a 6 foot doorway between the DR and KIT, the kitchen is open to the FR, the FR is 5 steps down from the KIT. Overall I like the open feel, occasionally it can get a bit noisy when I am cooking and DH is enjoying TV, but I would buy the house again. Our previous home was a closed floor plan and it was fine too, but I had never lived in an open floor plan at that point. I think I prefer a partially open plan overall. In a larger home it would be nice to have the ability to close off rooms. The same concept as hotel ball rooms or schools use.

You'll find plenty of open plan houses in the Coachella Valley, and they are pretty much the norm here. I do prefer partially open, which is what we have in Cathedral City, which is where we have our second house. Our second house is about 10 square feet larger than our house in Los Angeles, but if we had bought in the city of Palm Springs, we would have had to buy a slightly smaller house. The southern part of Cathedral City (which is where we are) is very nice - the northern part is windier, but then the northern part of Palm Springs is also windy, and we did not consider that area.

? historic homes usually have *less* bathrooms

The mid sized historical homes in my area are avg 6-7 bedrooms, 4-5 baths.

What’s the avg baths of historical homes in your areas ( year: 1800-1930, sq ft: 4,000-5,000)? You could do a search on Zillow. It would be interesting to find out. :-)

After being renovated, I would guess.

I've stayed in a few Victorian homes. They were built in the 1870's, mostly, and their plumbing is on the outside. Typically, they have one bathroom and many bedrooms. The bathroom was added long after the house was built, which is why the plumbing pipes are on the outside of the building. Oh, you mean Victorian style housing in the U.S., not Victorian era housing in London.

In this area an untouched Victorian may even have an addition to the back where the original bathroom was added on. Depending on when it was rehabbed the one bathroom would be upstairs but there might be a half bath, stool and sink. Most are in the 2000 or less. Beyond that size in this area you are talking old mansions. It all depends on the area of the country as to the size of what was built during the Victorian era.