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cary_zackman

How best to dam a stream, pump the water back to a man-made pond?

Cary Zackman
3 years ago

Hi, We bought a house in NJ two years ago with an amazing back yard. It was an estate sale, so we don't know much of the history about a man-made pond in the backyard. It looks like the brick cap around the pond was built in the late 1980's, based on cola cans I've found while deconstructing. It flows into a creek/stream, also on the property, which eventually flows into a named stream. The masonry work around the pond and stream is failing. If needs to be rebuild, we're willing to re-build it much like it is, so we don't run into any environmental or township permit issues. The pond (30' by 15') sits at the head a slow moving natural spring (or ground-water) which leads to the stream. The stream meanders through the property for about 225 feet. The water flow is constant, but not much more than a garden hose at full speed. Here is the question: Can anyone recommend a system them would 1. dam up the lower part of the stream, 2. Pump the water back up the stream and into the pond. Fully open to other ideas... I've included a few photos.


Pond while being deconstructed. What little water comes in is to the left, stream to the right.

The pinch point between the pond and stream. It had been damed with stones which we removed

Stream after the pond

First bend in the stream as it moved through the property (est. 225 feet)

Comments (19)

  • Embothrium
    3 years ago

    environmental or township permit issues

    Better start by checking on this aspect first

  • anj_p
    3 years ago

    this looks like a creek that was contained by a fancy culvert. I assume the water source is not man made. I would think if this is part of a larger watershed, which you say it is, that damming it and recirculating water would be changing the watershed. definitely check environmental requirements first.

  • PRO
    Patricia Colwell Consulting
    3 years ago

    Stop right now until you check out exactly what is allowed , you can’t just divert water becuase you want to.

  • pls8xx
    3 years ago

    Cary, there are some places you can't spit on the ground without a permit from the water gods. I live in a place where your project would not require a permit.

    One of the things you said was to dam the stream at it's lower end. That would be wrong. It will take less work for a pump to input water at a higher source which is the upper end of the stream. But the intake structure must not back water off your property.

    You say you own 225ft of the stream length. This implies a larger than average property size. Depending on the size and contours, it might be better to catch the needed water from rain runoff at an elevation above pool level. This would eliminate the need for a pump.

    Without more property details, that's all I've got.





  • beesneeds
    3 years ago

    What is that squarish looking space that looks like a drain outlet at the bottom of the pond in it's end? Is that where your water source for the pond is coming from?

  • Cary Zackman
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    Thanks for the comments. We’re aware of the state DEP and they have suggested we get a plan, have it reviewed by an environmental engineer. That we we are narrowing down the possible permits required. Again, we’re mostly rebuilding an existing man made structure, easier than trying to build something new. The rain water collection, makes sense and might add to the limited waterflow happening today. The square patio is at the head of the pond and the water comes in from under that structure.

  • cyn427 (z. 7, N. VA)
    3 years ago

    You will need a permit from the federal government to do that to an existing stream-unless Trump's guys have changed that law, too. You need a 404 permit from the Army Corps of Engineers before you can divert any US waterways.

  • mad_gallica (z5 Eastern NY)
    3 years ago

    That isn't a waterway unless you happen to be Stuart Little.

    Generally, streams below a certain size are not subject to Federal regulations, but only state or local.

    If I understand the situation correctly, I'd try to make the pond watertight, fill it either by hose or rainwater, then expect the natural spring to move enough water that the pond doesn't need aeration. Make sure it has an overflow, since after heavy rainfall it will need one.

  • beesneeds
    3 years ago

    Yeah, you for sure need a plan. That square outlet into your pond is a thing, the regular water level needs to stay below that point. With that being an outlet, your pond is really more of a catch basin with the additional waterway built onto the property to direct that flow to the local stream.


    You might find that you may not be able to do any dam or pumping to upstream because it might raise the water level above the outlet to a point of a stop flow or back flow problem.


    There might also be problems with environment and permits and such to do any real changes other than maintenance or renewal of what you got since it appears to be part of a larger waterway chain.



  • Christopher CNC
    3 years ago

    If the spring/ground water is beginning and entering at the pond, you need to rebuild the damn you removed at the pond stream junction. There is no need to damn the stream and pump the water back to the pond if its source is in the pond. Dam the pond and let it overflow into the stream.

  • apple_pie_order
    3 years ago

    Have you found any records of the initial construction at city hall? There may have been a geological survey done at the time.

  • Cary Zackman
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    Thanks again for the feedback - very helpful. We’re trying to get to property records, but our municipal building is still not accessible to non-employees. I’ve been told that home deeds don’t usually have surveys attached, but it’s worth the review once they open-up.

  • Embothrium
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Are they showing any relevant property information on the web? Where I am my city has for instance zoning maps and zone descriptions up and my county has aerial photos of individual lots on its site.

    After I found my municipal zone the permitted usage description even included language specifying that horses and stables where allowed(!) but greenhouses had to be within a certain small size.

  • kevin9408
    3 years ago

    Cary, you can get water from the creek/stream located on your property and pump it to the top to feed your MAN MADE pond using a RAM pump. Very simple and effective without electricity and able to move water 100's of feet up hill so you wouldn't need to even damn up your lower pond. Just look on youtube for ram pump, or passive pump for the details.

    About Laws.....Unless anyone here has pulled up the laws of NJ on lakes,streams, water sheds, and man made ditches anything said is speculation.

    Here in my home state of MN we have lots of water with different rules applying to each body of water based on its classification, and even the environmental lakes don't restrict pumping out water to use unless it exceeds a specific volume per minute. I have a MAN MADE ditch dug over a 100 yrs ago on my property and has a total of 120 miles of ditch in my watershed district. I've read the laws, attended the county watershed meetings and nothing, I mean nothing prevents me from pumping out water to use. The only state law which applies to my ditch states the county has a 16.5' easement on both sides for maintenance.

    Read the N.J. legislative statutes on the subject, and then the county rules before jumping to conclusions that you can't do something.

  • PRO
    Patricia Colwell Consulting
    3 years ago

    Okay so where I live no one owns the water that goes in and out of a piece of property so you need to know the rules before doing anything. Just because I own lake front property does no negate the fact I do not own the lake or the water there.

  • cyn427 (z. 7, N. VA)
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Mad_gallica, clever as you may be (Stuart Little), any stream that is not self-contained on your own property is subject to a section 404 permit if you are going to redirect or alter it in any way. The Corps may decide not to oppose the change, but you darn well better contact them.

    ETA: My DH was with EPA when that meant something and helped to write the Clean Water Act.

  • ulisdone
    3 years ago

    It sounds like this is a spring which starts on the OP’s property, not a flow - through body of water.

    And as for the EPA, they had a large taking of private property when they made that stupid Waters of the USA money business in the mid 2000s. Many folks in rural America woke up to having part of their land under Federal rule because it was “wet”.

    You haven’t lived until you try to get a permit from the Army Corp of Bureaucrats.

  • PRO
    KIBV Inc.
    3 years ago

    Sounds like you want the pond?
    Just fix the wall or dam or what you removed. Water will fill lowest point and overflow naturally anything else. Since it sounds like natural spring is already filling pond but slowly just let nature take its course Add small aerator if you want to add fish or avoid mosquito larve growing, simple solar unit probably can be found on Houzz. Why pump water up to something that can't hold it? Got to fix the break first or it is just another Creek not a pond.

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