Is north up on your diagram?

i don’t think you can fit an island. You can maybe do a peninsula where the wall between kitchen and dining is.

you might be able to do a counter depth fridge across from the current fridge. Maybe even a 30 or 33. then Get some uppeR cabinets where the fridge is. And space near the range

Yes. North is up. The wall you see on the northeast side separating the kitchen from the dining inlet is about 40" wide.

The little dining inlet (hallway west of the dining room, north of the kitchen) is about 55"W x 42D".

There is currently a mobile drop leaf table/island in there that measures 43"W x 21"D.

The distance between the drop leaf table, which is currently opposite the dishwasher leaves 60" (5ft) of walkable space.

I figured, if I drop the wall and replace it with a support beam, I could get an island like this.

There is no space for an but IMO removing the wall between the kitchen and the DR is the best way to get a better kitchen. I don’t know what your lifestly is so a bit more info on that would be good but if you are planning resale at some time those mini appliances are not good . Could you post a to scale floor plan of the whole main floor that will help us see how using the hall way could work.

Hi. This is the main level floor plan. I want to turn the closet you see in that hallway into a powder room as there is no bathroom on the main level.

following

With option one, you are making appliances smaller which will leave gaps that might be hard to fill since the cabinetry is so old. I love the charm this space has. Do not lose that! Choose finishes that work with the look of your old home. Have other spaces been renovated? Try to make sure fit all flows... Is the parquet in good shape? Things can snowball really fast on a project like this!

@mnmamax3 Thanks for your input. I am in the process of replacing the flooring in other rooms. In the dining room, I'd replace the parquet (it's laminate parquet on top of linoleum on top of hardwood) with hardwood or bamboo, but may wait on replacing that flooring if I decide to go the PERMIT route and expand the kitchen a bit.

One contractor recommends to turn it into a Kitchen Dining area, but I feel like having a formal dining room is a plus on a home this small.

As for the gaps, replacing all of the cabinets is also an option if I go the NON PERMIT route.

@Patricia Colwell Consulting

"I don’t know what your lifestly is so a bit more info on that would be good but if you are planning resale at some time those mini appliances are not good ."

My contractor friend said this very same thing. I cannot understand then why I see so many kitchens here on Houzz w/smaller cooktops and narrow refrigerators here as a way to squeeze more out of smaller spaces.

This came to mind.

I have had two 24" Liebherr fridges in different properties, liked them and found them adequate. We don't drink soda or beer, so don't need space for that. I had a 24" Lofra range and got by fine. I would not want an 18" dishwasher, however.

Are your soffits empty? That would be great storage space to recapture. I do like the idea of a counter depth fridge opposite your current one. A properly-sized hood on the outside wall would be a plus.

You don't mention budget, but removing walls will cost you. I think you could get a nice kitchen with new cabinets and appliances.

It's very chaming, and I love the arch to the dining room.

I wanted to keep a budget remodeling my 100 year old kitchen, but ended up saying "go big or go home!"--gut remodel with walls coming down. It's expensive, but I don't regret any of the money spent--I only second-guess the things I economized on.

In terms of space planning in a small house, I don't think a formal dining room is worth it at all. However I decided NOT to take down the wall to my dining room because the dining room has a lot of character and original features (took the extra space from breakfast nook and laundry porch).

Are you at all trying to retain the character of your vintage home? That would be my first question since, obviously, a contemporary island is not a design feature from 150 years ago.

I guess budget will be driving some of your decisions. Can you mix and match choices from the permitted vs non-permitted scenarios--e.g. don't go full fledged permitted but remove soffits and run cabinetry to the ceiling?

Love the dining arch, and not sure I would remove it. Not a fan of islands-with-poles. A sleek, built-in 24” fridge wouldn’t bother me, but it depends a bit on your neighborhood. Urban dwellers will not mind them, IMHO. A good KD could get you a lot more functional storage in your existing footprint, and while I do love vintage charm, I’d let those cabinets go, maybe in favor of something to complement your gorgeous china cabinet, perhaps rift-sawn oak if your budget permits. Or white cabs with soapstone. Because the house is small, I would lay the same floor throughout.

Yes, what is inside your soffits? And does the other kitchen entrance echo the one into the dining room? Really like your house.

I purchased a almost hundred year old house because I appreciate the way people use to live more than the way many are living today so I detest when structural features like gorgeous arches, swing doors and built ins are removed for islands.

I like how your dining room china cabinet is right by your dish washer I might consider treating that diningroom area as kitchen and coordinate it to your no permit plans if you do go that route. I think a cabinet depth fridge would be enough of a big improvement in how your space feels and functions rather than apartment sizes.

I think if budget is a factor getting a powder room on the main level would be my priority to an open floor planned kitchen. Entertaining is far better with a main floor bath and closed kitchen than with an open kitchen and no bath.

When I entertain in my closed kitchen I put the bar in the living room and apps throughout the living room, sunroom and dining room. My kitchen is still accessible to guest but far less people congregate in it if the booze is set up else where so I can still work easily in the kitchen.

A point I will mention when neighbors who have taken down the wall between the dining room and kitchen come over they all mention how much larger my house is than theirs. It is not bigger it is the same or in two cases less Sq footage.

Your home might be 150 years old, but it has enjoyed many remodels since it was built. Your floors in the DR and kitchen...and your kitchen cabinets are “new” too. As is your window. And the closet that was probably added at some point. So...beyond the preservation of the arch between the kitchen and dining room, there isn’t much that needs to be “preserved” here. That said...it appears to me that you wish to add character back to your home. That might, actually, mean reconfiguring your space. A powder room south of your side entry in the location of your kitchen and the creation of a mud room might be better than the closet. Moving the kitchen into what is the dining area, and opening the space up to the living room with an arch (yes they can be recreated), could be the direction to go. The character comes in your finishes...period appropriate. And one other thing....a drop in range takes up far less space than a separate cook top and ovens. If space is an issue, multi purpose appliances are a must.

I would work with the existing footprint (it’s very cute) but add new cabinets to your plan. I’d keep the standard stove size, 30 inch fridge size, and change the dishwasher to a single dish drawer. Islands IMO are for larger newer homes. They look a little dumb and apartmenty to me in tiny spaces. Work with your footprint and only take those soffits out if you are very tall. Get some amazing artwork up there.

Reading all the comments, it seems you need to line up your priorities and goals.

You can either update the kitchen in the existing space or do a full-scale remodel...

- Do you have the $ for both options?

- How will this affect your resale? Are most other homes in your area renovated?

- Do you need additional space or is this more for looks/function?

- Decide on the style/look you want and be sure it works with the rest of the house and that you can afford to make everything work together.

Thanks for the many responses here. I appreciate the time you took to look through my post, photos and floor plan to give great feedback. I will try to answer all questions:

@mnmamax3

• Price: This home is in a "historic" (but not landmarked) area in a suburban city in NY. I purchased this home at below market value because of aesthetics, but because of lot sizes in the area (mine is much larger than most lots, but the home is small), most renovated homes start in the $80K - $150K higher than my own if they sit on smaller lots. Many of the homes in my area are NOT renovated and sell at a higher price than my home (slightly more home square footage... though my home as you can see was also not updated/renovated at purchase)

• Budget - This is a project I would get started on in a year or two, so I can budget for both low (non-permit) and high (permit-total remodel) options.

• Resale - As with most properties, a modernization/remodel would definitely allow for a much faster sale, especially with values for homes exploding in suburban areas near the NYC metro area.

• Looks - This is more for Looks AND Function. I personally like the remodels of small kitchen with tinier appliances, pull out spice racks, wine racks, tall cabinets and even small peninsulas/islands.

@mrykbee Noted. I liked the idea of a smaller dishwasher. I never use dishwashers and wash by hand, so for me personally, a dishwasher is a nice item to have in a home but not a necessity for me.

@ptreckel In your scenario of moving the kitchen into the dining room, what would the kitchen area become? Yes, the parquet flooring is "new" (albeit 20 yrs old and scratched up). There is linoleum under the dining room parquet and in every room on the main floor (i.e. in the living room, it was linoleum under the carpet). My contractor is saying not to bother with removing the linoleum as the hardwood flooring is most likely not good. He is suggesting that I just remove the parquet and lay new hardwood or bamboo on top of the linoleum.

@roarah The china cabinet is a built-in and I do not like it. One suggestion by my contractor was to take the refrigerator out of the kitchen, remove the china cabinet and put the fridge there instead to capture more cabinet space in the tiny kitchen.

As for the soffits. I have no idea. My contractor told me to open them up myself (I am handy), shine a light to see if there is anything in them, and if there is, he'd repair the drywall. If not, then cabinets all the way to the ceiling, here I come!

I have this style in mind (Emphasis on the White Glass Cabinets, Subway Tiles, etc)

But I do like the idea of being able to add a wine rack in this small space which is why this picture really caught my attention. I'd imagine that such a rack is 5-6" at the most, so a 24 inch refrigerator might allow for those extra 6 inches.

I once had a fridge out of the kitchen and it made every meal much more stressful.

I have looked at 24 inch fridges and they are very functional. Keep in mind the good ones are pricy and pricy to repair. A tiny stove would cause me to pass on the house however. The wine thingy looks like a nice way to finish the corner but not as functional as using the space for a wider fridge. Keep in mind counter depth is less deep than the one you currently have. Maybe tape it off and see how you like living with what essentially becomes a 20x20 interior space for the milk and ketchup.

And chilled wine lol

I have a small corridor kitchen. Here's what I might do.

• Use the first island photo as the basis of the design. The corridor between the counters will, of course, be narrower than those in the photo because you'll have only a window between them, not double doors.
• Narrow the "island" by deleting the seating. The dining room isn't large and you should allow space within it for a table and chairs all around.
• Use a 24" tall refrigerator. There lots of refrigerators of that width so I don't think of them as mini-appliances. The narrower refrigerator will give you more counter space adjacent the range.
• Use a 30" standard range. If you don't like bulky microwaves, install a low-profile model over it.
• Install the sink and standard 24" dishwasher in the "island". You might locate the sink off-center to allow more counter space opposite the refrigerator.

--amateur who installed his own IKEA kitchen

You say this remodel is for looks and function, and you say a lot about the look you are after, but what is the function you are after? It looks fairly functional for a 1 person kitchen (bigger than the one in my 1950s home).

If it's storage you're after, I'd suggest adding a nice cabinet or two (furniture cabinets, or dining-room-appropriate built ins) to the dining room. In my bitty kitchen, I called the sunroom the "kitchen annex" because I stored all my pantry items, and at one point even my refrigerator, in there. You get the benefits of keeping the dining room while "expanding" the kitchen too.

Do you know what's in the sofits? Those look like 1940s-50s cabinets (not original), so I don't think I'd hesitate to take them to the ceiling if those sofits are empty.

I have a friend with a tiny kitchen where the original version had the fridge in the dining room. They opted to use a 24" wide, 72" tall counter depth fridge from LG. That fridge has a surprising amount of space and would be enough for a one or two person household. They chose to add a secondary fridge and extra storage around the corner at the bottom of the basement stairs.

I have a relatively small kitchen (10x12) and I don't have enough storage space for my collection of pantry goods, drinks and extra bakeware. My answer was also basement space but I chose to add a wall oven and cabinets and put my large capacity microwave down there also. I don't like the over the range microwaves so I put a compact MW on a shelf to keep it off the countertop.

My suggestion would be to put a tall narrow counter depth fridge and a cabinet with MW shelf in place of the current worktable. Then add cabinets where the fridge is now. If you wanted to go cheaper, you could just add a couple shallow cabinets to the current setup.

@wdccruise Thanks for your feedback. The first island photo is what I had in mind in the beginning. I had imagined that a sink could go on this "island" or a cooktop could go there instead. I'm not so sure about this now, but I am leaning on the 24" counter depth + tall refrigerator.

@jslazart Thanks for your expertise. Your questions have been very helpful with putting more thought into what I want to do here. In all honesty, the idea of being able to fit lots of stuff in a small space intrigues me. Ideally, at some point, if I were to stay here, I'd bump out my house by 5ft and add a story (this making the kitchen about 13x8 or 14x8. Since I have no intention of doing that in the now, these pictures where I see sliding spice racks, pull out drawers, smaller refrigerators, cabinets to the ceiling, etc all strike me as how I'd want my kitchen to be. As a single person who does a lot of cooking, creating a space like this, while it might look "too busy" to some, would be perfect for me. This is why I said I wouldn't mind a smaller dishwasher and smaller appliances.

As for the soffits, I haven't checked yet. I mentioned above that my contractor said I could open them up myself and if they weren't empty, he'd repair the drywall. A bedroom is above the kitchen, and aside from radiator pipes that run along the arched wall (i.e. not in the soffits), I can't imagine that there would be anything to hide in them.

@Lyndee Lee. I should have posted a picture of the side by the work table. When I first moved in, I was trying to figure out why they didn't just put the refrigerator there, however, there is a radiator on that side, and that might be why. With a 24" wide refrigerator, there would be enough space between the fridge and the radiator, but I don't know that putting it there would be a smart move. What are your thoughts? (pic below)

"I had imagined that a sink could go on this "island" or a cooktop could go there"

Somebody wrote elsewhere that one spends much more time preparing the food than actually cooking it. It would then make more sense then to put the sink and a long counter in the "island" so you'd be facing the dining room while you're preparing the food (as well as cleaning up). Also, I wouldn't want people leaning over a hot cooktop from the dining room.

Not sure if this will be helpful...I have a tiny kitchen too. It has an island.

@che11e What are the dimensions of your kitchen? Thx for that photo.

@wdccruise Thank you. I'd have to figure that out. Something would have to be done about that radiator that sits in front of the dining arch to get an island where you are proposing.

@jslazart What are the dimensions of your kitchen?

Technical issues stole my previous reply so here is version two

Hot water or steam heat? Have you been through an entire heating season in this house to know the warm and cool spots?

The objects are known as radiators but actually most heat is transferred by convection so proper airflow is important.

Do you have access to the heat pipes from below? Options include moving the radiator to the hallway side of the wall or across the room. You could replace with a toekick model with electric fan or a shorter version which could fit underneath the sink. My friends with the tiny kitchen ended up removing their radiator completely...not recommended unless you know the main floor is warmer than the upstairs.

If you leave the radiator in its current position, you could build a cover designed to direct air flow and still benefit from the space above. The main consideration is uninterrupted space at the bottom front and beneath the radiator then a solid panel to the front of the radiator to create an air current. Warm air rises and exits through an open space above the radiator.

If you decide to go the permit $$$ route, I echo the thoughts from @ptreckel regarding the mudroom and bathroom location. If you can manage the expense of keeping the upper level supported, I would even remove the wall in the living room though sometimes it is nice to have a wall for the Tv, etc.

No one wants to come out of the bathroom into the kitchen or dining room... This would give you a small mudroom area and bathroom and several options for island. I have seen smallish islands with seating across from each other on the ends, large farm tables in the kitchen or just a huge island with seating. Would a house from the late 1800's have an island? Maybe not, but with the right period materials it could still have the old house charm and new house functionality.

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If you reduce the dishwasher and range size what are you putting in the space you gain? If you could add a drawer bank it might be worth it but in this case I would leave them as standard size. If you install just one dishwasher drawer you can build a drawer below it, so that might be worth it.

I don't have the exact dimensions on me, but this was my kitchen on the day I moved in (built in 1952--the whole house is about 900 square feet). Forgive the move-in mess.

Those are 12x12 tiles, so... about 8'x8'? I was pretty limited by not wanting to get rid of the original part of the kitchen, but got creative with appliances (I bought an undercounter refrigerator, for example, and made good use of the probably ~8'x16' sunroom through the door on the left).

I'm excited to see what you do. Tiny kitchens can be so fun to work in if they are efficient. I have a massive kitchen now, but there are some things that were better about the small space. When set up correctly, everything was always within reach.

Reading back through the comments and there are so many ways to store and display wine that does not take up valuable kitchen space. A free-standing bar cabinet, wall rack, etc.. You could even put a rack on top of your existing white cabinet in the Dining room...

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I am so gracious for all of these comments and feedback. You guys are really helping me to target my objective here.

While I could spend more on a total remodel, it really is "unnecessary". I realize that the decent sized formal dining room is a plus. Also, optimally, at some point down the line, I'd like to extend the back of my home by five feet and add a floor (giving me a larger kitchen and enlarging the size of the bedroom above it, which is the same size). At that point, a total remodel would make the most sense. So perhaps for now, the NON PERMIT route might be the best path to take to get some modernity in the home while keeping the expenses low. I've been looking at homes in towns near me which have kitchens with similar square footage, yet sell for $200K+ more than my home.

Here is an example. Their kitchen is 12x7. They have their refrigerator in an adjacent pantry (this home is over $200K more than my own!)

A NON PERMIT route with "storage tricks" (i.e. slide out spice racks, smaller fridge, ceiling cabinets) sounds like the right path. I get to save on not having to move plumbing/gas/electrical.

@mama goose_gw zn6OH and @mnmamax3 I see your point about the off-putting feeling of coming out of the powder room into the dining room/kitchen area. While this might be the cheapest way to get a powder room because of the existing closet door, since I'd need a permit to construct a powder room anyway, perhaps a better entrance would be a new door constructed along the door of the hallway, sealing off the existing closet door, or turning that existing closet into a shallower closet. I believe the wall down the hallway is load bearing.

This could be the modified floor plan which puts the entrance to the powder room in the hallway.

Would it be a 100% NO to put a 24" refrigerator where my drop leaf table pot rack and radiator are? If I were to put it in that spot, there would be 3" between the fridge and radiator.

On the other hand, if I went with the 24" refrigerator in the place of where the 30" one is now, I'd get 18" of counter space between it and the 30" oven instead of the 8" I have now!

Hmmm, lots to consider... I can see going the cheaper route until you add on the extra space, but keep in mind that new cabinetry, counters and flooring are not cheap. I might live with it as is until you can go all in.

If the major reno is many years out and you really want to make some updates now, I think you should definitely make smart choices so you can transition into your "later" plan without too much additional cost. Know exactly how things would move and change. Order extra flooring and maybe even extra cabinets or configure them so the bumped out space could be a framed pantry where cabinetry does not need to match.

I think your idea for the powder room could work. Not sure the shallow closet is very useful... Closer to the kitchen and it could be a pantry but think about what you have and what you need to store. Also plan out where and how you want to put your furniture in the Living Room - you could turn the powder room 90º and have a pocket door opening and toilet and sink facing each other to not intrude so far into the living space. Either way, a pocket door might help for that bathroom.

If you go with the plan as you posted above, I would put in a butler's pantry or bar area across from the closet as that is an awkward space unlikely to be used for much else.

In regards to the refrigerator in the corner, which direction would the doors face? I feel like the side of the fridge across from counters would look weird and very tacked in...

@mnmamax3 The refrigerator doors would be opposite the dishwasher/sink.

On second thought, just having a narrower refrigerator in place of the 30" one in the same spot, with the now 18" instead of the current 9" of counter space in between the stove/oven and fridge seems ideal.

Perhaps, where the drop leaf table is, I could have another permanently installed counter there with a beverage cooler on the side and cabinets for pot storage. Maybe something like this:

With a 6" wine refrigerator like this one instead of the wider one seen in that pic above.

If you do the powder room set-up above, I would put this in the space between living and dining room, opposite the closet. Build in a tall pantry cabinet here with cutouts around the radiator and an open bottom with a deflector for the heat.

You still haven't answered the question about how long you have lived in this house. I think you should treat the radiator as an important piece of the solution, not an afterthought. Using that corner efficiently can make quite an improvement on the usability of your space.

Hi @Lyndee Lee. One year.

@Lyndee Lee @mnmamax3 @jslazart

Hey guys! Wanted to thank you for all of your input and for helping me focus on the objective of a remodel! I've decided that I will go with the NON-PERMIT route and leave my kitchen dimensions as is for now.

New glass pane/clear view cabinets to the ceiling, a new counter in place of the drop leaf table (or a new drop leaf table), granite countertop, new appliances and some space saving tricks like slide out spice racks and built in wine racks are all I need to modernize my kitchen and make it a tiny little monster! You guys helped me realize that I don't really need a big kitchen at this time!

@traci_from_seattle

I was never aware that Dishwasher drawers existed and that is definitely something to look at. A drawer above to store things with a 24" dishwasher drawer below sounds like a great compromise over an 18" dishwasher. Thanks for the recommendation!

@wdccruise

Thanks for the low profile microwave recommendation. I will definitely incorporate this.