b_csz5

Any difference in these roses?

B _zone5b
6 days ago
last modified: 6 days ago

Sorry about posting another thread about Austins.....I think looking through so many pictures of them has me wondering how different some of the color ranges really are. Curious if anyone has grown Pat Austin, Lady of Shalott, and/or Lady Emma Hamilton for instance. Are there any big differences in the colors/flowers of these? I know there seem to be notes about their growth habits being a bit different, but from all the HMF photos it seems like the colors/form are the same. I find it hard to tell the difference with a lot of the pinks too. I'm assuming there are a lot of differences in color shifting with each group. Anyone have any thoughts? Maybe it's worth trying all three? I have Carding Mill and it's probably my favorite out of all the roses I planted....are these all the same orange/reds/salmons?

Comments (21)

  • sultry_jasmine_nights (Florida 9a)
    6 days ago

    Lady of Shalott is a climber here (12 ft, could be bigger but she is espaliered on a fence and gets cut back) and a chameleon. Color ranges from coppery to brilliant oranges, corals etc. She is a good bloomer but Pat is a better bloomer.

    Pat is orange and sometimes sherberty. I bought a second Pat because I really like her. She hasn't become a climber here but I have seen others grow her as a short climber. Her blooms are more open than LoS. Frogs like her :P

    Both LoS and Pat foliage stays clean here.

    Lady Emma is a vivacious orangy lending to coral with beautiful foliage and red stems. Her fragrance is much stronger/better than Pat or LoS. Lady Emma gets a little Black spot here but I dont spray so YMMV.


    B _zone5b thanked sultry_jasmine_nights (Florida 9a)
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  • Stephanie, 9b inland SoCal
    5 days ago

    My LoS has similar blooms as Carding Mills at the Huntington Gardens near my house. CM has better fragrance and is a short shrub. LoS has a harsher myrrh fragrance and is huge throwing 12 foot canes in the second year and needs to be treated as a climber in my climate. Her colors in my garden sometimes look the same as pictures posted by sultry but usually I see more pink undertones.

    B _zone5b thanked Stephanie, 9b inland SoCal
  • rosecanadian
    5 days ago

    Sultry - I was looking at your roses...and I thought, "green?" Must be a frog!!! And it was! You always have such cute frogs! I adore your LoS blooms!!! Oh my goodness!!!


    Stephanie - wowza for your first bloom!!! Oh my!!


    All I know about Lady Emma Hamilton is that I killed 3 of them. LOL

  • B _zone5b
    Original Author
    5 days ago
    last modified: 5 days ago

    @sultry_jasmine_nights (Florida 9a) + @Stephanie, 9b inland SoCal They're all so beautiful, thanks for showing your photos! The frogs!


    I'll see what happens when I plant them all together....maybe they'll form one giant mass of color or maybe I'll notice the variations more in person. It doesn't seem like any of them are bad or ugly options :) Carding Mill is my favorite plant right now....so I'm hoping these will have similar form/color. It seems like they will. Thanks again! Stephanie, great to know about the long canes. I don't know how it will too in my colder zone, but I'm giving LOS space in case she decides to become bigger.



    @rosecanadian oh no! Did they die from winter kill or just random deaths? I don't know why but LEH's strange colorations draw me in more than Pat Austin. I think I'll give her a shot and see if she can survive here. If not, I'll put Pat in

  • Krista_5NY
    5 days ago

    Lady Emma Hamilton is short here, good for the front of the border. Mine are just under two feet tall. They brighten up the landscape with vibrant color.

    One of mine did not survive its first two winters, but the other one has survived. I replaced the one that died, as I think it's worth growing, even thought it does not seem as hardy as other Austins.

    They are wonderfully fragrant with a fruity tangerine scent and notes of rose perfume.

    I would plant them in an area with plenty of sun.






    Young Lycidas on the right


    Mme Isaac Pereire on the left



    B _zone5b thanked Krista_5NY
  • Stephanie, 9b inland SoCal
    4 days ago

    Krista, Your Lady Emma Hamilton is luscious!
    B, I think a bed of peachy orange roses sounds fabulous! You must post pictures next year.

  • rosecanadian
    4 days ago

    B - they came to me in pretty decrepit states over different years. Then they withered away over the summers.


    Krista - yeah, your comments about the fragrance and your lovely orange roses show why I tried 3 times. But I'm done with it. LOL

  • B _zone5b
    Original Author
    4 days ago

    @rosecanadian -Oh no :( It's a lot of work digging for new roses....I don't blame you. I usually don't replace plants very quickly...only if I see a perennial at my nursery that I really like. My main garden beds are stuffed with plants so I don't notice quickly when they "disappear".


    If all these roses die, I might just end up letting the garden have lots of empty holes everywhere to avoid having to dig out and re-dig holes for roses hah. I'll throw some boulders around and make it look intentional. "and this here was my rose garden......Look at all the beautiful giant holes everywhere....I dug those!"


    @Stephanie, 9b inland SoCal I'm hoping it looks nice and pops in my yard a bit. I never really knew that roses came in such a variety of colors, which I know sounds ridiculous, but whenever I saw them at the nursery the ones blooming were usually red or white and never really caught my attention. These orangey mixes are interesting...they kind of have a tropical look for me and my garden which has been mostly lavender/whites/pinks/yellows.


    @Krista_5NY Krista, thanks so much for the beautiful photos and tips on LEh. I love the color on yours! Orange/salmon with a tint of yellow that makes the purples in your companion roses pop. Beautiful. Little worried about size for our zone. This spot I was going to put 2 of them is next to a 3 ft. tall patio wall....so I need whatever rose I choose to clear 3 ft in height so I can see it (from above). Hmmm.....maybe Pat is better for that

  • oursteelers 8B PNW
    4 days ago

    I know it’s different in every yard but for what it’s worth my LoS is more vibrant than Carding Mill. Carding Mill is more in the peachy camp with an occasional vibrant look while LoS has more deeper colors softening to a more....sherbet look I guess you could say.

    Sizewise LoS is definitely going to be bigger. Watching the canes this fall I’m thinking she might start her climb into the photinia next year. Carding Mill seems content to be a shrub especially since he doesn’t like my alkaline tap water he gets in the summer.

    B _zone5b thanked oursteelers 8B PNW
  • Krista_5NY
    4 days ago

    B, I don't know if Pat Austin will be vigorous enough in our area to grow over 3 feet tall. Evelyn grows taller.

    Pat Austin in Philadelphia, photo from Helpmefind

    B _zone5b thanked Krista_5NY
  • B _zone5b
    Original Author
    4 days ago

    @oursteelers 8B PNW - Thanks for this color info. I think I am going to plant Carding Mill next to LOS and Lady Emma and see what happens.....worst comes to worst, I'll move one if it won't grow. I wasn't interested at all in the colorations of LOS or LEH last spring when looking for plants....but after falling for Carding Mills red/yellow combos, I want to give the other two a try. My plants all got my well water and seemed ok, although I have nothing really to compare them to since I'm new to roses. I did notice that one out of the three carding mills I got, grew much thicker, taller canes (tallest about 5 ft) in soil that had about 4 inches of looser top soil. The other two are in soil that is rockier clay and they grew into 3.4 ft rounder shrub shape, versus the taller guy in looser soil.


    @Krista_5NY Thanks for that link...I think I'll stick with LEH and see how she does. She doesn't have to get giant, but hopefully I'll be able to see her over the 3 ft wall she'll be in front of over time. If not I'll just swap her out in a few years with another Carding Mill or something else.


    Have any of you grown Christopher Marlowe? @strawchicago got me hooked on his beautifully strange colorations, and I'm debating whether to try him (own-root) for this area. Can't tell if he'd clear 3 ft. in height....but his strange pink-orange-red tones might compliment LOS/LEH nicely too.

  • rosecanadian
    3 days ago

    B - and those rocks will "grow" so quickly with the wonderful job you've done with those holes!! LOL

    B _zone5b thanked rosecanadian
  • Diane Brakefield
    3 days ago

    B, I know a rose that will grow taller than three feet and has orangey tones (it's a solid soft orange like Just Joey)--Abbaye de Cluny, a hybrid tea Romantica from Meilland. Mine may be huge, but in your zone, it should be a lot smaller. Hopefully, it could withstand your cold (I'd better check its cold hardiness), but here it has zero dieback pretty much. That doesn't mean much in your case. The blooms are huge and totally consistant in color and size all summer long. It doesn't so much have the overwhelming spring flush as much as constant bloom all season. I don't know about black spot since we don't get it here. I've grown Abbaye for about 13 years. Diane

    B _zone5b thanked Diane Brakefield
  • Diane Brakefield
    3 days ago





    B _zone5b thanked Diane Brakefield
  • strawchicago
    2 days ago
    last modified: 2 days ago

    Diane: Love all the pics. you posted, very pretty !! How's the scent of Abbaye de Cluny compared to Evelyn. And does it last long in the vase like Evelyn? My only 1 problem with Evelyn: color fades, so I hope to find something with deeper color that doesn't fade in my alkaline clay. Thanks for any info.

  • Diane Brakefield
    2 days ago

    Straw, thanks for your comment. Abbaye is kind of an unusual rose in color and looks. And I don't think she has much scent, so probably would not be a good replacement for Evelyn because of that. I think the Evelyn blooms you've shown in photos are gorgeous, and their color is outstanding. My Evelyn roses fade badly as the heat comes on--way worse than yours. In fact, I'm surprised you say your Evelyn fades at all. I think of Abbaye as an outside rose that blooms in an area which needs some color. I've never use her for bouquets. I'm sorry that's not more helpful to you. Diane

  • rosecanadian
    2 days ago

    Diane - your first pic of AdC looks like a huge rose that would be worn on a woman's hat years ago! Awesome!



  • B _zone5b
    Original Author
    2 days ago

    @Diane Brakefield Beautiful orange tones. I love that second picture with your fence. You can see the interesting coral tones....they're so soft. I love them. Thank you for posting about her. I checked HMF and it seems she's for zone 7 and up, but I have to google a bit more and see if anyone has luck with her. It's a great color though, one of my favorite types of color where you can't really describe it. "Not quite coral, not quite orange, not quite peach". When I make my paint colors, those are my favorite types because they're intriguing and change easily when next to different, more concrete colors.

  • Diane Brakefield
    2 days ago

    Yes, B, Abbaye's color is pretty unique. I can only think of one other rose with that color, Just Joey. You could check its hardiness, but I think it's about the same as Abbaye's. I'm surprised she isn't a little more hardy because I never see cold damage on her, and we would be on the edge of her hardiness zone. Do you ever paint roses, even in the abstract? Diane

    B _zone5b thanked Diane Brakefield
  • B _zone5b
    Original Author
    yesterday

    @Diane Brakefield I've seen Just Joey for sale at my nurseries around here. I didn't get it because online I think it said 6 or 7...but maybe I'll give it a shot and see how they do. I think Life of the Party is technically 6 or 7, but when I bought it on a whim a few years back, I had no clue. It's still out there in my garden planted too high above the ground but comes back every year. Next year I want to try a little zone pushing so I'll look for Abbaye.


    I haven't ever painted roses, no. I have been thinking about it though :) The only thing I've really done with my plants is made some photography work with them. If you want, you can see some of them on my page below...they're a little further down on the timeline if you scroll. Next year I want to try some photo work with the roses, once I get them all in the ground. Maybe even incorporate them into some paintings since I like them so much :)


    Link