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I’m at a loss of words.

Feda Alhammouri
last month

We got custom cabinets, gave him dimensions for everything. Today we went to insert the cooktop so that we can finally do the backsplash, and this happens. Has this happened to anyone? The guy recommended getting the quartz guy to close that gap but I feel like that will just look awkward. Apparently the cooktop is not pushing all the way in because there is a stainless steel small bar causing it to stop where it’s stopping. Also who’s fault is this and who should be responsible for fixing this? We paid a lot to get a custom kitchen to avoid the issues we are having now. Also my husband doesn’t seem to think it’s that big of a deal. Plz help.

Comments (54)

  • Feda Alhammouri
    Original Author
    last month

    I’ve literally browsed hundreds of photos on here and all the cooktops are flush to the wall. As they should be. I could lift it up a bit and slide it in al the way, but then it’ll be higher than the counters. 😫

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  • dsgts
    last month
    last modified: last month

    ILoveRed: There is a small gap between range and wall. It should not have happened, but I am not going to demand that all the cabinetry be rebuilt. Everyone involved in my remodel worked hard with best intentions. This was a minor mishap and it can be dealt with.

  • Fori
    last month

    What is the stainless steel bar that is preventing proper installation? Why not just remove that?

  • Feda Alhammouri
    Original Author
    last month

    I might have described it incorrectly. Here is a picture of it.

  • Fori
    last month

    Oh. The cabinet was made incorrectly unless you got a weird rangetop that is supposed to stick out that much.


    It's not a bit acceptable. If you raised the whole thing, wouldn't it be resting on that lip and unlevel? Compare it to the manufacturer's installation measurements so you have a strong argument.


    Cabinet maker should be able to cut out that shelf thing and install something lower if that's what it takes. Does the drawer even close as it is?

  • Feda Alhammouri
    Original Author
    last month

    So here Is a picture with it raised over the part that is causing the problem and then pushed all the way in. I do like this better and agree with @foodonthestump. Obviously the back would have to be lifted to match the fronts height. I honestly think the cabinet guy took the measurement for the whole cooktop without taking into account the front area that’s supposed to be sticking out. If that makes any sense.

  • foodonastump
    last month
    last modified: last month

    Whoa - Forget the rangetop for a second what’s with that flexpipe???

  • JuneKnow
    last month

    You bumped it out, so of course there is a space at the back. It cannot be pushed to the back wall because it’s designed to sit forward, as shown originally. Fill the space with a stainless strip and call it good.

  • foodonastump
    last month
    last modified: last month

    Disagree. Cut a piece of 3/8 ply or whatever to size and slide it in. Get the look you’re going for.

    ETA - But I have to reiterate, what’s up with that foil duct? Absolutely unacceptable for range hood exhaust, if that’s what it’s there for.

  • FinallyHome
    last month

    Following.

  • wdccruise
    last month

    If I'm reading the Dimensions Guide correctly:

    • The control panel, excluding the knobs, will stick out 3-5/8" from the cabinet (O - N on page 3)
    • If the wall behind the cooktop is noncombustible, there is supposed to be a gap of 1-3/4" between the cooktop and the wall (F on page 5)

    The installation instructions say a backguard (possibly this one) can also be used to fill the gap at the rear.

    P.S. Don't listen to Fori.

  • foodonastump
    last month

    Don’t listen to me either as wdc has a point about those clearances. I’ve got questions about the requirements but I’ll bow out.

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC
    last month

    foodonastump:


    Don't bow out please. This isn't the first time we've seen someone post on one problem and have another presented to them that they didn't even know they had. It's what makes the site so valuable. Stick around please.

  • wiscokid
    last month

    Seconding what’s with the flex duct?!?! That needs to be replaced with rigid ducting. Did the cabinet guy do that?

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC
    last month
    last modified: last month

    Here we go again. Another job where the designer, homeowner, GC, cabinetmaker, or whoever failed to read and comprehend the installation instructions of the appliance manufacturer, which in this case are quite clear. "...the cabinet guy was in charge of everything. All I had to do was supply him with the model numbers of our appliances." At least you know who's at fault here.


    Under no circumstances will the appliance be pushed back to the wall. The "steel bar" is designed to prevent the appliance from being installed too far back when it touches the cabinet even on a noncombustible wall.


    You can redesign the layout, get new countertops so you can pull the cabinet forward to get the required 7 3/4" clearance to the rear wall, or you can remove the cabinets, remove the drywall, remove the studs, replace the studs with steel studs and the drywall with cement board to get the required noncombustible wall. No, installing a noncombustible surface over a combustible wall does not turn it into a noncombustible wall at least according to the NFPA.


    This is a gargantuan fire hazard screw-up. If your local codes require appliances to be installed per the manufacturer's instructions and you've got a conscientious inspector, I see a giant red tag in your future.

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC
    last month
    last modified: last month

    Feda:

    More bad news. The inside radii of the bump outs on your countertop at the range are nonexistent. Again, not reading and comprehending the manufacturer's fabrication instructions. Page 10 where you'll see the 3/8" radii you needed. When that 90* inside corner cracks, the manufacturer is going to say 'We told you so."

    Improper range top installation, improper countertop fabrication, and improper ducting. What a mess.

  • PRO
    Patricia Colwell Consulting
    last month

    The cooktop was made to have the space at the back and I also noticed the flex venting that is a no no for sure.I also have no issue with it a bit higher than the counter . No custom cabinet maker I know would not come to the site and check out for himself all measurements and get all install directions for builtin appliances .BTW quartz behind a cooktop is also a very bad idea. You really needed to spend your money on a kitchen designer , BTW that is who designs the cabinets to work with the applinaces you choose

  • wdccruise
    last month

    @Patricia Colwell Consulting: "BTW quartz behind a cooktop is also a very bad idea."

    From the Installation Instructions page 7:

    "*NOTE: If back wall is constructed of a combustible material and a backguard is not installed, a minimum clearance of dimension A + 6" is required for all models [where A = 1-3/4 inches]."

    So if she just installs the backguard, she should be good. And it won't matter what the wall behind the range is made of.

  • JuneKnow
    last month

    People don’t read. Inexcusable in a GC. But he isn’t even a good cabinet maker. Much less a GC.

  • Feda Alhammouri
    Original Author
    last month

    Looks like the cooktop isn’t the only issue. Thank you to everyone that pointed out the insert problem. So it is not supposed to be this type. We did not insert this ourselves so I have to speak to the cabinet guy as he did. Looks like I might have chose the wrong type of people.

  • kaseki
    last month

    And when the cooktop vs. fire hazard situation is corrected, please come back for a discussion about hood requirements imposed by actual cooking (and breathing and keeping the walls clean).

    Is this cooktop intended to have a riser back there which would protect the wall and fill the gap?

  • PRO
    Norwood Architects
    last month

    So, what is causing the cooktop to be pushed forward? You said it was a small stainless steel bar? Can that be removed? Have you checked with the manufacturer to see if that is possible?

  • foodonastump
    last month

    Thanks Joe. Then I will say what I’m unclear of:

    On page 1, the difference between grate depth (B) and depth without control panel (C) is 1.25”. So I’m thinking this is essentially the depth of the back overhang.

    The 1.75” cutout to non-combustible wall depth (F) on page 5 is shown as not including the lip.

    Am I correct then that from the back-most piece of the rangetop to the non-combustible wall only needs to be about .5”? That would mean only a very small portion of filler would show. If correcting to a non-combustible wall.

    I do agree with your definition of a non-combustible wall. Could maybe make it work without taking everything out if it’s not a load bearing wall. Looks to me like a backguard would be the easier option.

    Disagreements welcome, I’m not pretending to be a pro.

  • foodonastump
    last month

    Feda- Re the duct, I wouldn’t let them “correct” it to this, either:

  • homechef59
    last month

    The flange that you call a "steel bar" is doing it's job exactly as intended by the manufacturer. It keeps you from sliding the range top in too far and too close to the back wall. That's as far back as it's supposed to go.


    There is probably a stainless steel back piece that corresponds to this range top unit. It's meant to be inserted into the gap. If there isn't or you can't find it, you can have one fabricated to fit the gap. A metal shop can bend it for you. Quartz doesn't like high heat.


    You still have a big problem with that flex ducting that some knucklehead has tried to pawn off on you. It's not just unacceptable, it's downright dangerous. Stand you ground and make them do whatever it takes to FULLY replace the cheapo dryer vent ducting with a proper metal flex duct material. That's the sign of someone who either doesn't know how to do their job properly or is too lazy to do it properly.

  • wdccruise
    last month

    @Joseph Corlett, LLC "...failed to read and comprehend..."

    Applies to commenters who don't read what others have written as well.

  • foodonastump
    last month

    The flange that you call a "steel bar" is doing it's job exactly as intended by the manufacturer. It keeps you from sliding the range top in too far and too close to the back wall. That's as far back as it's supposed to go.


    But that’s based on 24” cabinetry. In Feda’s case the base cabinet is bumped out, so I’m thinking the rangetop can be slid in further, “overriding” the flange, as long as the rear clearance requirements are otherwise met.

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC
    last month

    "@Joseph Corlett "...failed to read and comprehend..."

    Applies to commenters who don't read what others have written as well."

    It appears to me the manufacturer has muddy or conflicting specifications with the National Fire Protection Association with the use of the word "backsplash".

    Fred S, using a different manufacturer's specifications, makes the issue more clear in the 50th post down here.

  • wdccruise
    last month

    Kitchenaid uses the word "backguard" not "backsplash" and is referring to an accessory it sells, probably the Whirlpool accessory I linked above.

  • mama goose_gw zn6OH
    last month
    last modified: last month

    As someone who's never had a cooktop, rangetop, or a gas range, I'll defer to those who are quoting mfr specs--but looking at the pic the OP posted, I think Fori and foodonastump both have good ideas. It seems to me that the flange is not meant to be visible, and should sit just behind the face frame/rail. If the rail is no deeper (front-to-back) than 3/4", the cooktop should be moved back so that the flange is behind the rail, and cooktop is resting on the rail. The cabinet could be altered to move the rail down far enough to make the cooktop level with the countertop. If that's a solid shelf between the drawer and cooktop, maybe it could be moved down and routed to recess the flange. The remaining gap at the back could then be filled with a SS piece. The drawer front might have to be remade if it's too tall to close against the lowered cooktop. Ducking my head, but if I'm in trouble, I'm in good company with Fori and foas.

  • JuneKnow
    last month
    last modified: last month

    The specs show exactly how far the range top is supposed to protrude from the plane of the cabinet face. You cannot install it against manufacturer’s installation instructions and pass any form of inspection. Manufacturer’s instructions are directly incorporated into code. Bumping it forward means the whole thing bumps forward, with a bigger gap at the back. Because it cannot be shoved back.

  • wdccruise
    last month

    @mama goose_gw zn6OH: "I think Fori and foodonastump both have good ideas."

    No, they don't.

  • foodonastump
    last month
    last modified: last month

    wdc - Please elaborate. My suggestion is that as long as the required rear clearance is maintained, the front can be recessed further into a bumped out cabinet. What part of that do you take issue with?

  • Celadon
    last month

    You cannot move the rangetop back into the bump out. It’s built to try to proof it from those who don’t read the specs in that regard. It must stick out from the cabinets, as the diagram shows. It’s not just about rear clearance for that requirement. It’s also about front projection.

  • homechef59
    last month
    last modified: last month

    I missed the information that the base cabinet was deeper than a standard cabinet. That means this unit will not fit as designed and there will be a gap in the rear. The flange on the front will prevent it from being recessed further. The profile on the front is correct.

    Because of the extra deep base cabinet, the filler piece of stainless bent to provide a filler for the gap is the simplest, cheapest solution.

  • foodonastump
    last month

    I’d love to hear the rationale for why. I tried to ask Kitchenaid but they could not connect me with anyone to answer a technical install question. They told me to contact a builder or installer. Well the internet shows that countless installers will recess it so that’s no help. I admit my opinion is just that and nothing more, so I won’t waste more of anyone’s time!

  • foodonastump
    last month
    last modified: last month

    Ok one last thing. For the record Wolf specifically allows for flush installation in cabinetry deeper than Wolf specifications, with the caveat use your head re heat and disclaimer check local codes. What would make KA different?


    https://www.subzero-wolf.com/assistance/answers/flush-install-ranges-wall-ovensor-rangetops

  • PRO
    Debbi Washburn
    last month

    I will admit up front - I did not read all the comments.

    This is a kitchen aid cook top. It does not install like a Wolf range top does. It installs more like a slide in range. The countertop needed to be cut like this


    With the notches in the front.

    Then the sides of the cooktop are supposed to lip OVER the countertop - not within it


    Sorry I couldn't get a good clear picture.

    The width of the cutout is 35 1/4 and the width of the cook top is 35 3/4 so it goes on top of the counter ( overlaps it ) . The notch is for the front where the controls are.

    It is designed to have a piece of countertop behind it. This piece of top is usually seamed in place because it would break in transit. Yours will be larger because you have bumped out the cabinet.

    Now the headache - how to remedy this and at whose expense...

  • foodonastump
    last month

    Ouch

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC
    last month

    After the fundamental problems are addressed, I would fill the gap with matching engineered stone with all edges abraded slightly to smooth and set in place with color matched silicone, not methacrylate. As long as you don't transfer any heat by using oversize pots in the rear, it should be fine. If not, pull it and install stainless steel.

  • wdccruise
    last month

    @Debbi Washburn: "Now the headache - how to remedy this and at whose expense..."

    Install the backguard: Whirlpool W10115776


  • mama goose_gw zn6OH
    last month

    The backguard is 1" deep (according to the specs). What goes behind that?

  • PRO
    Debbi Washburn
    last month
    last modified: last month

    @wdccruise that back guard is meant to go on the wall - the picture is showing it laying down. There is about 3" or so behind this cook top - it just needs a cleat screwed into the wall and the proper sized strip of countertop put in with a seam on each corner.

    The bigger problem is the top was not cut with a notch so the opening is to wide where the unit should be just lipping over the top about 1/4"

    This is a picture of what I was told would happen when I did mine ( this is not my stove pictured )



    And that is how my slide in range was in my previous home. Except it had the side that lipped over the countertop ( this picture it meets the side of the top )

    I just hope the OP can get this rectified.

  • wdccruise
    last month
    last modified: last month

    "The backguard is 1" deep (according to the specs). What goes behind that?"

    Holey socks, Bee Gees cassettes, Original Spam, "welcome" doormats, Hillary campaign signs, pennies, Lumia cellphones, shag carpet, pet rocks, children's peas, The Munsters VCR tapes, silver bells and cockleshells, burnt toast, anything Chinese.

  • foodonastump
    last month
    last modified: last month

    Just curious, Debbi, given your experience with KA do you have an opinion on making that notch longer so that the rangetop can be slid further into a bumped out base and counter? As the OP intended, and as a Wolf would allow?

  • mama goose_gw zn6OH
    last month
    last modified: last month

    @wdccruise that back guard is meant to go on the wall - the picture is showing it laying down. There is about 3" or so behind this cook top...

    I guess all of @wdccruise's treasures will have to go in front of it.

  • PRO
    Debbi Washburn
    last month

    I would never stray from the installation details of an appliance. If something should happen, you could void the warranty and not be covered.

    The problem here starts with the kitchen designer and the internet. Then trickles down to you , the GC, the countertop people. There are alot of hands in this problem.

    You cannot install this cooktop the way the wolf ones do. The "side" of the cooktop is not thick enough - you can see it in the picture you posted


    That is a lip - it is on the sides and the back. It is meant to sit on top of the countertop.

    Was this cooktop not installed when they templated??

    The only other option you MIGHT have is to go out and purchase a Wolf cooktop. BUT a Wolf sticks out as well


    You have it bumped forward - I do not know if you can just push the Wolf back either.

    So sorry you are dealing with this now. This should have been dealt with before the cabinets were even ordered.

  • foodonastump
    last month
    last modified: last month

    I understand the lip issue since you mentioned it yesterday. And I understand that the OP’s counters were not cut correctly. I was just questioning if in “an” installation with a bumped out counter you think lengthening the notch would be ok. That said, I’d understand that the conservative approach is to follow the specs to the letter, even if there doesn’t seem to be a hazard and even if the manufacturer specifically approves adjustments subject to common sense.

    Me, I’d consider swapping the KA for a Wolf to be a reasonable solution, if the customer is happy with the appliance and the measurements work.

  • JuneKnow
    last month
    last modified: last month

    I‘d get rid of the bump out that shouldn’t have been done, and install the backguard.