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cjbennett0511

Kitchen Cabinet Layout - Full Overlay and Spacing/Filler Dilemma

5 years ago
last modified: 5 years ago

Hi everyone. I am currently designing a kitchen layout for a future build. I am having an issue with the spacing needed for full overlay cabinets. I want to make sure there is enough clearance for the doors on two of my wall cabinets to open without rubbing or interfering with the tall Fridge Surround End Panel and the Oven/Micro Cabinet. Also, I have the dishwasher in between the sink base and the Fridge Surround End Panel. Will there need to be any type of base end panel between dishwasher and the fridge panel for counter top support? Affecting the total length of the base run would affect the total top cabinet length as well. I believe if I add filler/spacing/support, it will affect both top and bottom cabinets as each issue deals with cabinets butting up against tall end panels/cabinets. I would like to keep the layout as even and symmetrical as possible. I am not a fan of having cabinets of multiple sizes and different door sizes next to one another (I blame it on my OCD). I have attached a picture of the proposed layout idea. Any tips or information would be greatly appreciated!

Kitchen Size: 11'6 (11'9 max) X 13'6 (13'9 max)

Cabinets: Schrock - Pleasant Hill (Shaker) - Full Overlay (1/4" reveal)


Comments (18)

  • 5 years ago

    I have the same overlay as you (different brand) and I did not need fillers where you indicate. I think you might need something for counter support by dishwasher. It won’t look bad to have a matching filler above.
    And I’m with you on the sizes of the upper doors. Mine are also all 24” cabinets/12” doors.

  • 5 years ago

    There’s at least 15 things you are not accounting correctly for in space planning in that diagram. A brand new kitchen that does not yet exist in a house that does not yet exist, should not have that many errors.

  • 5 years ago

    Hire a certified kitchen designer.

  • 5 years ago

    Maybe I should have prefaced this first: this is just me outlining the way I’d want the kitchen to look like. I am no architect, builder or designer. This is just me drawing what I think would look good and what I want in my kitchen. When the time comes for me to get my house plan drafted, then I’ll go to a ‘certified kitchen designer’. Until then, I am really looking for just some constructive feedback and answers to my question. Any advice or tips or suggestions would be appreciated. I’m sure there are errors. I’d be glad to know what they are so I can correct it and get a better sense of what I’m trying to accomplish. Thanks

  • 5 years ago

    Allow more room. Don’t try to crowd everything. You’ll need to know your casings sizes, plus 6”, minimum. Etc. Most people think far too literally, and don't understand clearances at all.

  • 5 years ago

    Celadon- yeah I don’t understand clearances. That’s why I’m trying to figure out if the idea in my head will work in the floor space of our floor plan. I would assume you mean the casing for the window above the sink? I’m not sure what size of sink or window would work best in that situation. Possibly 33” sink? Not sure yet. I will have to do more research on it. And I’m not sure how I’m crowding. Again, not trying to be confrontational. I’m sure I just don’t understand the concept of cabinet placement. I’m pretty much working off a template that a local stick builder uses for their floor plans. Just trying to modify it so I can incorporate a wall oven/micro, and a hood range.

  • 5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    And more comments...

    • You don't have much prep space between your sink and range. More would be better...unless you put a prep sink in the island and use your island for your primary Prep Zone
    • If the refrigerator is up against a wall that's deeper than the refrigerator box, you will need 6" to 12" of filler (or cabinet) between the wall and the refrigerator to allow the refrigerator doors to open fully. With the exception of true built-in refrigerators, the doors must extend out past surrounding items (walls, counters, cabinets, etc.)
    • Island...do you really want that shape of an island? A rectangular island is usually more useful and less of an obstacle.
    • In corner base cabinets, corner susans are usually a better use of space than easy reaches or blind corner (the worst). Items are more accessible. A depth of 24" or more (from the corner) is really not easily accessible in a base cabinet - unless you're OK with getting down on your hands and knees to access the depths. (With upper cabinets, it's different because they are only 12" deep and that's an easily accessed depth.)


    I think the Kitchen Design Best Practices/Guidelines in the "New to Kitchens? Read Me First!" thread would be helpful:


    Does your builder have a true Kitchen Designer on staff? I think you would benefit from one. (Not a cabinet sales person, a true KD.)

  • 5 years ago

    Where's your Dining Room (or table space)?

  • 5 years ago

    Oh, and island seating minimums:

    • 24" of linear space per seat
    • 15" of clear leg/knee space after accounting for cabinets, finished end panels, etc. 12" is too shallow
  • 5 years ago

    Buehl- Thank you for the feedback!

    • I didn’t know that the Hood should be wider. I will have to do more research on the different sizes and specs and the price differential. I’ll also have to look at changing some wall cabinet dimensions to accommodate a bigger hood.

    • I believe the manufacturer (Schrock) does allow for modifications to the stiles on wall cabinets for that purpose you mentioned. The frame of the cabinet is 1.5” with a door overlay of 1.25”. How much more “space” is needed? I feel like another .5” of stile should suffice? Especially if I get the special closing hinges that prevent the door from opening to 90deg..?

    • I am aware the upper diagonal cabinet does generate wasted space, but I prefer a staggered cabinet look to them being all even. Could using a 90deg cut EZ reach corner at a 42” compared to the 36” height for the other wall cabinets look ok? Want to maintain the staggered look if possible.

    • I am not sure if the manufacturer needs more wall space allotted for the bottom corner cabinet. I will have to research further.

    • I never realized 12” cabinets aren’t “useful” in the sense of practicality. I will look at alternate layouts that don’t involve single 12” cabinets. I will also look at combing the 12/24” cabinets. I was caught up on each door should appear similar (~12”) that forgot the practicality and functionality of them.

    • Fridge Surround - I initially had two tall end panels that were L shaped with the front face 1.5” wide and 24” deep on each end of the 36” fridge wall cabinet. That would have given me 39” of wall space for the fridge. I also had the notion that the fridge was going to stick out of the surround. I’m not sure what else I can or should do with the fridge placement.

    • The island is how the stick builder’s floor place is laid out. I think I would prefer a 8ft rectangular island.

    • I have never given much thought to the “prep” aspect. I’ve never had two separate sinks growing up and neither has my wife. And the tiny kitchen we have now has made us use to the fact we use our sink for both cleaning dishes and prepping food. It is something we will have to look into.

    Attached is my floor plan I’ve been working on. Again I am no designer/draftsman. I have literally taken a basic floor plan from one of the local stick builders and tried to modify it within the physical layout of their plan i.e I’m using their dimensions for each room as starting points. I’m basically trying to see if I can take their plan and modify it to where I can get the layout I want of the cabinets without physically altering the foundation and walls and what not. Please feel free to point out any obvious mistakes/errors I’ve made. It really is appreciated!

  • 5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    "I feel like another .5” of stile should suffice? Especially if I get the special closing hinges that prevent the door from opening to 90deg..?"

    Plan for at least 1". Preventing the door from opening to 90 degrees will limit the accessibility of the cabinet. Remember, it's not just the doors, it's also the door knobs/pulls that extend another couple of inches beyond the door itself...you don't want the knobs/pulls hitting the end panels/cabinets next to them.

    "I prefer a staggered cabinet look to them being all even"

    Be aware that the staggered cabinet height is an outdated look. It also creates major "dust catchers" on the tops of the cabinets where it's difficult to clean. It's better if the cabinets + crown molding go to the ceiling. Of course, if you don't care about looking outdated or about cleaning the tops of the cabinets, then do what you prefer. Many people do care, that's why I mentioned it.

    Are looks more important to you than function? If so, then some of my comments may not apply to you -- I believe in function first, so my comments reflect that. [It's easy to make a functional Kitchen look nice, but it's next to impossible to make a nice looking but dysfunctional Kitchen functional without tearing it out and starting over.]


    I'd take down the wall next to the refrigerator in the builder's plan. You'll gain 4.5". Just cover the refrigerator's outside end panel and the oven cabinet's outside side with decorative doors (or have them integrated into the oven cabinet, if your cabinet maker offers it). [I think you've already eliminated the wall, based on the measurements you gave in the first post, but I mentioned in case you did not.]

    Is that a sliding door in the Dining Room? If so, it will make it difficult to put a full-size table there without blocking the door. If it's a window, then it's not an issue.

    Pantries work best when they're close to the entrance you use to bring groceries into the house (usually the garage) and close to the Kitchen without having to cross other rooms. They also work best when they're in the interior so the weather doesn't affect the Pantry's temperature and humidity. Pantries should be dry, dark, and cool at all times. If your Pantry is on an exterior wall, it could heat up during the summer. However, based on your plan, I don't know if there's a remedy for the Pantry's current location.

    The location of the Pantry on the far side of the Dining Room will also need to be accommodated with the table location. You need to get to it easily without having to run around the table every time.

    Here are some thoughts...







  • 5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    You might post your overall layout on the "Building a Home Forum", but be prepared for them to tear it up (or tell you to work with an architect). If you can handle someone tearing it up and don't mind sifting through the comments to determine what you can/cannot fix, then it might be worth it.

  • 5 years ago

    I prefer a staggered cabinet look to them being all even"

    1996 is calling and asking for its cabinets back.

  • 5 years ago

    Shannon - 1996 is calling and asking for that lame ass joke back. But it’s all good!

  • 5 years ago

    Fair enough cjbennett! You made me laugh, which these days is a really good thing.

  • 5 years ago

    I’m glad you’re amused lol. I’m not a snowflake so I take it in stride. I’d prefer some constructive feedback. I’m just a factory worker trying to build a better home for my family. Really just trying to get ideas. You got input I’d love to hear it. Buehl gave me sound advice and I appreciated it. You, on the other hand must be a keyboard warrior. You keep on searching through comments and fighting the good fight! I’ll continue to keep learning and taking the advice from people who obviously know more than I do. But hey if you’re ever in Indiana and want to get all jokey in person, let me know! Glad to hear your funny commentary!

  • 5 years ago

    Your walk in closets aren’t really walk in able. You’d get more storage space from a reach in. Giant no on a 3 car front facing garage. It’s 1/3 of the house. There are other issues that require an architect to solve.