I am looking to put a swim spa in my garage. I havent read this entire thread but i dont see any mention of SwimSpaManufacturers.com why is that?

It’s a jet style swim spa which won’t provide adequate current for even slightly serious swimming.

Wow, what a thread. I feel like I should get a masters degree after reading this. Great job!

I am an architect in New England and am looking to install a swim spa at home below grade. Can you point me in a direction that would offer some guidance on this? My intent was to pour essentially an insulated concrete slab and retaining walls with a retractable cover. From there I have about a thousand questions:

• Should there be a sump with pump
• Are there other than the obvious electrical concerns such as GFI, shunt trip, clearances, etc.
• Would the additional insulation from this surround void the manufacturer's warranty
• Would the additional insulation from the surround improve or shorten the life of the pumps / heaters
• Would the vapor barrier of the surround create similar issues
• Would the vapor barrier of the surround create issues with the general function of the spa
• Are the manufacturer's specified clearances sufficient to perform annual maintenance
• Is it acceptable to provide an enclosure cover over the spa with a spa cover
• Is there a way to automate the spa cover with the removal of the enclosure cover

If there was any group that would have knowledge on this, it would have to be this one.

Thank you

Dave

I think those are definitely questions for the manufacturer. However what you're trying to do sounds pretty complex and it sounds like you would have a real challenge if you ever needed to replace any of the spa's components. If you're going to that trouble, why not just do an original endless pool or a Badujet installation?

Hi Dave, I do have information to share with you, and I'm trying to find time to post it all here on Houzz, so please keep checking back, as I will try to post information with illustrations. The number one thing I would say is that, yes, you do need to be concerned with more than just a grounded electrical connection. Equipotential bonding is the name of the game when it comes to safe pool installations. Ideally you would want to put a bonding grid underneath whatever unit you set down, and if you are doing this below grade with a cavity, you will ideally want bonding of the steel reinforcements inside the concrete in case water soaks through to the steel and also bonding of any conductive materials within 5 feet of the unit to prevent deaths in case of a short that cannot clear which may unknowingly energize your water. As Mike Wrob already commented, a SwimEx or Endless Pool Original (modular) are the two pre-manufactured units that best fit the scenario you described, however those may last up to 20 to 30 years before needing total replacement, and a BaduJet Turbo Pro installed in a regular in-ground gunite or fiberglass pool (from a high-quality producer like San Juan) would be basically a lifetime pool with perhaps mechanical upgrades over time. Knowing your use scenarios like how much you plan to actually swim in the swim current and how long you plan to live in the home would help in answering questions. I have more material to share with you to answer your questions, so please check back for an additional post from me. Thank you!

Thank you both Mike and Aglitter, very lucky to find this thread. Lot's of deep knowledge here.

Mike you said my plan was complex, I'm afraid to tell you the second half.

My intent is to construct the recessed concrete slab and retaining walls (insulated, waterproofed, and grounded) just above grade. The shell would be oversized in both directions by the manufacturer's work clearance requirements (I'm assuming 3'-0" or so in two directions) and the spa would be craned into place inside the shell. THis would provide me access to two sides of the spa from inside the shell, the ability to position the spa during installation, and the ability to service the spa once installed.

A removable wood deck would be installed around the spa to finish it and prevent falling into the shell. Again, 3'-0" or so on two sides and just to close the gap on the other two sides.

Here's the truly complex part. I want to cover the concrete shell with the spa inside with a rolling wooden deck. My thoughts are this deck would be motorized. My thoughts also are that this rolling deck would roll under the adjacent deck which is one step higher. This would put the spa out of site when not in use, cover the spa (of course a manufacturer designed spa cover would be sit on top of the spa and be had removed once the deck rolled off) for safety and heating, and kind of jst be neat.

Too much?

@S.T.O.N.E Thank you for answering additional questions by direct message yesterday. In considering which next steps to suggest for your swim spa project criteria, I think a numbers analysis might work based on an overall budget at or about $200,000 USD in 2024, as follows:

• $120,000 for a SwimEx 1000 S Model delivered to the street in front of your house with dual paddlewheel, added therapy jets (that you said your family wants), and added sprayed insulation. This number could dip to under $100K if you choose a smaller SwimEx model with no jets or insulation, and it could rise higher depending on other features you request like a deep well. You will probably want to avoid the entry-level Triton propeller model given your training needs as an Ironman triathlete, but a good next step is to set up a wet test appointment for you and your family, if possible, at the SwimEx headquarters in Fall River, Massachusetts, and swim in both the paddlewheel and propeller models to see which you prefer and whether the noise level of the swim wave generator is tolerable for you. SwimEx seems to be the best swim spa brand for you based on your criteria which is: 1) you want to crane-in a pre-built unit to a below-grade installation, which eliminates building an Endless Pools Original from components, 2) you want the pool to be open to the air when in use and last as long as possible, which eliminates the non-renewable acrylic shells of virtually all other triathlete-level swim spa brands including Master Spas and PDC that will degrade about twice as fast--max life of 20 years with some users getting not much more than 10--in your wet, cool Northeastern climate than the recoatable, fiberglass SwimEx shells, the 30-year lifespan fiberglass construction being one factor why pricing is so disparate to other brands, 3) SwimEx is the only brand to my knowledge at this time that comes standard without an exterior cabinet and is designed to be installed below grade in most instances; yes, it is possible that installing another brand that comes standard with a cabinet designed to be installed above grade in most instances could create the problems listed in 4 of your questions from your first comment, though the overall inferior longevity of acrylic-shell brands compared to the fiberglass SwimEx models would be the prime concern. Here is a photo of a SwimEx 1000 S Model:

• $15,000 optional fee for a SwimEx network provider to move the swim spa from the street to your prepared landing pad. This fee is in addition to the delivery cost included with your original quote of transporting the unit from the factory to the street nearest your house. In most cases, this additional fee would go toward a crane, but sometimes overhead barriers require the spa to be rolled in. This cost may be reduced if you contract a crane yourself, but make sure the crane meets or exceeds the distance and weight requirements of the spa. You don't want a crane crushing anyone's home. YouTube is full of videos of pool moving crane mishaps if you care to see one.
• $10,000 approximate electrical fee to upgrade your panel or run new conduit from the pole to meet your new amperage requirements and bond all horizontal conductive materials within 5 feet of the spa including the steel concrete reinforcements from your spa enclosure to the SwimEx's bonding lug. Overhead conductive materials may require bonding at beyond 5 feet per the NEC. The electrician usually needs to be a pool specialist in order to have the experience to meet the current NEC for pool and hot tub installation safety, and the electrician should be consulted prior to concrete pouring. Not all electricians will know to do this, but the safest swim spa and hot tub installations utilize a wire bonding grid placed underneath the unit. While this amount is an estimate, I think it is conservative based on prices I found to be typical in the Southwestern USA several years ago with upward adjustment for recent inflation, your location, your auto-retracting pool cover/deck, and the 3-dimensional nature of your enclosure with a large amount of steel reinforcement that will require bonding. Here is a photo of hardware such as may be used in pool bonding:

• $30,000 for excavation and creation of a swim spa enclosure with steel, gunite, interior waterproofing, and a drainage system. Being an architect, I am sure you must be aware of the potential for water seepage into below-grade structures, so if this will be an issue in your yard, you will need to install a rock bed or other drainage system leading from underneath the cavity to an approved drainage area, and you may also need to waterproof the interior walls of the cavity or take other measures to prevent vapor from accumulating. Note that your city's code may also require proof of a sanitary drainage location for the swim spa's twice-yearly drainage and cleaning schedule. As to your questions about clearances, SwimEx supervises these types of installations all the time and provides guide manuals for architects. See more here: swimex.com/design-resources-architects
• $25,000 for retractable swim spa cover. The most popular automated swim spa covers on the market currently are from Covana, and the cost of a Covana for a SwimEx 1000 S Model would probably run around $20K, so I believe $25K would be a conservative price for a custom-designed, retractable wood cover such as you have described. My question would be how you plan to deal with snow or rain, two weather conditions prominent in your area. If it were to be a rolling cover, debris from the top of the cover would inevitably contaminate the bottom of the cover which would then make its way into your swim spa water. A completely flat retractable swim spa cover may not be logistically possible given that you already have a deck in place. I might recommend thinking of making the swim spa installation only partially below grade and setting it a step up from your existing deck so that you can use a standard thermal cover for it and build a stationary deck around it to match your existing deck. A rolling wood cover over the thermal cover won't help that much with heat retention anyway and may exacerbate water retention in the cavity if it is less than watertight and prohibits evaporation. Here is an example of a semi-inground swim spa with matching deck surround:

That brings us up to a $200,000 USD build in 2024, and at some point there will be a question of "opportunity cost," which is the value of what you could have gotten for the same investment. A portable swim spa unit will rarely provide much return-on-investment to your home and may even decrease your home's value in some markets due to limited lifespan (30 years at most for a SwimEx, barely 20 for most other brands), while a built-in pool rarely decreases a home's value. You could probably hire a reputable local builder like Luxgen Pools which is based in Trumbull to create a custom, BaduJet Turbo Pro pool that would meet your training needs for the same or less than a SwimEx build. It appears that Luxgen does free consultations, so it might not hurt to have them on site to advise on your electrical bonding needs, if nothing more. As you know from my direct messages yesterday, I highly favor a covered swim spa installation for your Ironman triathlon training needs as well as the typical climate in your area to provide you the most cost-effective heating scenario for a year-round swim season. Here's an example of a covered SwimEx that has been designed with an indoor/outdoor feel with sliding doors, and please let me know if you have more questions that have not been satisfactorily addressed:

@Aglitter
@Mike Wrob
@HU-700553381

Holy smokes. What an incredible compilation you have created here! Wow!!! Super helpful! Thank you for all the effort you have put in here.

I am hoping you might share some of your opinions on best approach to a swim spa for my needs. I am looking for a hydrotherapy unit to be placed outside in the Pacific Northwest. Following a surgical error, I have had a weak and painful right leg for a few years (glutes and calf muscles most affected). I can walk but not far on land. I have limited hip flexion on the right so running in place in still or moving water is not doable. Can’t squat or sit normally. A lay down when most people would sit, keeping that hip pretty straight. I can do breast stroke some as the legs go out - but I have to modify to not flex at the hip much. It hurts but I want to keep trying Freestyle is a no go (at least how I do it as an inexperienced swimmer).

I miss exercise so much and I’m realizing if I’m not proactive about this my overall longevity and health will suffer. I used to be highly athletic. I’m desperate to create an accessible (without driving, which is painful) way to keep this body moving. Walking in water is comfortable and wonderfully tiring. It seems to use quads and psoas more than my weaker spots and the bouyancy is great. I love heat, am often cold. I don’t love electronic noises/ whirring. Hot tub noise and bubbles kind of bug me and my leg 😂 - I prefer just a pressure on my leg bc of all the nervy sensations. I also am a single mom of 3 kids so happy, playful entertainment is wonderful. Lots of neighborhood friends in and out of the house regularly.

I’m renovating my house and realizing the massive cost of a swim spa may be worth it if I can find the right fit. I’m trying to get into formal hydrotherapy to expand my hydro-PT vocabulary but we are relatively rural and it’s a struggle. Also hard for me to travel to try a lot out. I’m hoping to narrow down my choices and then see what I can go we test at a reasonable distance. Costly decision (money and space) given how little trying on I can probably do. But I can try an EP I think 700 easily.

So here is where you may come in! My needs are very different than yours and maybe your experience but you have clearly all spent a lot of time thinking about this. I think this is what I need:

• Current of some kind - I think non-air jet would feel better? Solid push against my legs instead of frothy??? But maybe I’m making that up.
• Treadmill?
• OK for some non-expert breast stroke
• Ideally quieter
• Energy efficient - Can be kept at 95 maybe
• Therapy jets with at least one lounge seat
• Will need automated cover - may do sliding wood panel like the creative architect above.

I love the idea @Aglitter had of a round pool with the Badu jet. I realize they want that as an expert swimmer, though and don’t know how important the current quake will be for me. But it would be awesome if that round pool could be a large “hot tub” with one lounge seat and a treadmill in the middle. Ha!! So quirky! And not realistic probably. But I am going to go investigate that possibility

From this incredibly thorough review I think the best straight forward bet may be:

1. Master Spa H2X challenger - I can’t remember if they do treadmills and will research outside this thread! Would forgo lounge seats.
2. Maybe jacuzzi or Marqui (better lounge seats than artesian you said) - make something with a current
3. EP post 2017 - give up lounge seat
4. Build own pool to get flow AND lounge seat …Ugg …but then won’t have therapy jets or treadmill.

Ha.

Ideas??
THANK YOU

@audreycw It sounds as if corrective surgery is not a possibility for you, or even if it is, hydrotherapy would make a significant difference in your quality of life. I'd even recommend that you put some of your home renovations on hold until you make sure everything you need in a residential hydrotherapy unit is affordable for you, because the cost may exceed what you expect.

After reading your wish list, I'll have to say that a built-in reclining lounger isn't available in a swim spa that also supplies a good treadmill system. Artesian TidalFit Fitspas which are dual-temp units have a swim current and a lounger but no treadmill. Master Spas produces a couple of Therapool models that have a swim current and a lounger but no treadmill. Endless Pools, as you already seem to know, is the clear leader in the present market for underwater treadmills. I've tested an Endless Pools treadmill, and it is ideal for someone who plans to use a swim spa primarily for water walking.

Note that some of the acrylic Endless Pools models may be too restrictive for you to successfully do a breaststroke kick without hitting barriers, but if your kick is as narrow as you say, if you aren't extraordinarily tall, and if you take care not to drift too far backward, you could probably do breaststroke in any Endless Pools acrylic model. Note that treadmills are also available for the Endless Pools Originals, but an Original won't offer you the level of insulation you need to keep your temperature up with energy efficiency.

You mentioned living in the Northwestern USA, and knowing that you'll want to be doing hydrotherapy 4 to 6 times a week for maximum benefit, I would highly recommend reconsidering setting this unit outdoors unsheltered. A shelter for the unit, even if it's an inexpensive one, would expand your swim season much further unless you live along a temperate coastal region, in which case you may be able to swim outdoors most of the year.

You have a mom's heart wanting to entertain not only your own children but the neighborhood children as well, however, I recommend if you sink as much money as you will need into this project to make it a customized hydrotherapy machine for your medical needs that you keep children out of it for the most part--definitely children who are not your own. An underwater treadmill must be used appropriately and treated gently; inexperienced children may get tangled underwater in that type of machinery, and you also don't know how clean guests will be who may want to frequent the swim spa. Extra bodies in the water will require more chemicals and possibly even more frequent drainings, cleanings, and refillings. If you go forward with this purchase, I recommend sending the children to another pool to swim where lifeguards are on duty and delicate, mechanical equipment such as a treadmill isn't present in the water.

Endless Pools acrylic models are on the quieter side relative to many other swim spas when your ears are above water. I found a high-pitched noise to be annoying only when swimming with my head within the Endless Pools current. Since you will be mostly using the treadmill, the noise should be tolerable for you. If an Endless Pools acrylic is too noisy for you while swimming in the current, then almost every other brand will be as well, including a BaduJet Turbo Pro which setup is ill-suited to your needs, anyway. A Master Spas Challenger may be quieter for you than an Endless Pools acrylic, but the Challengers don't offer treadmills at this time, to my knowledge.

The Jacuzzi and Master Spas Michael Phelps hot tubs offer more laid-out loungers than the Artesian Elites, but the Artesian hot tubs are quieter by far since they use switchless motors which no one else in the industry is using for hot tubs, to my understanding, in 2024.

If you are committed to the idea of a lounger with high heat plus cooler treadmill excercise, then we need to discuss a swim spa plus a separate hot tub. Remember that a swim spa is usually kept in a temperature range from high 70°F to low 80°F for safety during exertion and over longer periods of use. The temperatures nearing 100°F in a hot tub are unsuitable for exercise and can quickly expand blood vessels as the body attempts to offload heat which can induce medical emergencies, especially in anyone with a pre-existing heart condition. Please let us know if you have more questions, and best of success with your therapy efforts!

Thank you, @Aglitter, for your thorough, thoughtful, and quick response. It is quite helpful. I had a feeling I can’t get all the parts in one and just need to figure out what are my top 2 priorities. Your insight is quite helpful. I will research a bit more and may come back with more specific questions later. Thanks!!!!! Enjoy your day!

Hi All, any thoughts or experiences on a TidalFit EP-15? We're looking for a ~15' swimspa with a good seating setup for the spa and still have flexibility and depth (60'') for the swimming portion of it. Thanks.

@dpovieng With TidalFit being an Artesian product, you can hardly do better in terms of comfortable spa seating matched with a relatively affordable price. The problem with the TidalFit Pro-EP 15 is that it is not a dual-temp unit (with the spa area separated), thus your best swimming temperature will be far too low for heat therapy, so if you are looking to use the unit like a hot tub, please reconsider. Also, this is an air jet system so unsuitable for serious swim training. I would recommend reading this thread in full to learn more about all your options.

If you choose to go forward with TidalFit, I would advise trying to set up a wet test appointment first, and you may need to travel to the company's factory showroom in Nevada to do so, as the dealer network for these swim spas is limited, and few dealers who carry TidalFit swim spas have them set up for wet testing. Also consider whether you have access to a covered location for this spa. I've been doing some lap swimming this winter in a covered pool in North Texas USA, and even our mild winters are still cool enough to prohibit comfortable swims outdoors at water temperatures at which a swim spa would normally be kept. Unless you are in a very warm location, you will obtain a much longer swim season out of a covered swim spa.

The same does not apply to small hot tubs, as the high temps capable by small, high-heat units are usually enough to offset very cold outdoor temperatures. Many swim spas max out the heat setting at or around 89 degrees Fahrenheit for safety reasons during exercise and also sometimes for meeting state ratings for energy usage for the larger tubs of water.

@Aglitter, thanks for your detailed response!

@Aglitter, do you have any thoughts on this pump system (upgrade from Artesian) https://artesianspas.com/wavs/?

Thanks for drawing my attention to the new WaVS wave generation in Artesian's TidalFit swim spas. It is impossible for me to give a 100% accurate assessment without testing the jets myself, but I can give you a few observations based on the marketing material: 1) the top WaVS selling point seems to be speed variation--16 speeds--but by comparison, brands like Master Spas and PDC TruSwim offer 100 speeds with their swim spas plus programmable workouts with automatically varying speeds on some models, so 16 set speeds is hardly a winner, though it may be better than what TidalFit offered previously 2) another selling point of WaVS is that it is the "quietest pump in the industry," but remember that turbulence equals noise, and the turbulence created by these pumps appears to be off the charts just looking at the promotional video they made--which has music instead of live sound you'll notice, an odd choice to display the supposed quietness--so even if the pump itself is quiet, the amount of noise reaching your ears via the excessive turbulence will be significant, not to mention make side breathing hard with some strokes like freestyle with all that water turbulence, 3) it always bothers me when swim spa manufacturers cannot be troubled to find a real swimmer to demonstrate their swim spas, but at no time in the promotional video do we see a swimmer maintaining a competition-level stroke nor a kick with feet high in the water, and drag at the foot level is a huge problem area for almost every swim spa on the market with the exception perhaps of the SwimEx paddlewheel models, so it is a pity TidalFit does not clarify whether foot drag is resolved or, in fact, whether any training-level stroke is fluid at all, 4) and finally, it is clear that WaVS is an air-injected, jetted system, and the amount of air bubbles directed at your head when swimming at the upper speeds with WaVS will be uncomfortable enough for most people to prohibit extended swim sessions in addition to the generally true observation that air-injected jets do not provide the strong swim current level needed for serious swimmers.

Hope that is helpful. I appreciate the fact that Artesian is attempting to upgrade the TidalFit experience, but WaVS doesn't look like anything that is going to bring these swim spas into the league of SwimEx's paddlewheel models, Master Spas' H2X airless VIP jets or Michael Phelps propeller models, PDC's TidalFit propeller models, or Endless Pools' propeller models with exquisite turbulence elimination grids. If you want a swim spa that supports lap-swimming type exercise for hour-long sessions or however long you swim for training, you probably need to keep looking. Wet testing the spa would be important if you do wish to go forward to make sure that the capacity of the swim current is sufficient for the max speed any of your users will need.

Thank you for the excellent reviews here. And I really appreciate the video that one user included. Very helpful to see the unit in action!

Hope people still visit this site. We are retired and are going to downsize and build a 3600 sq ft single story house. Spouse has arthritis. We would like to build a room in the house with a swim pool. I am an amateur swimmer, for excercise only. Spouse wants to be able to do “deep water running” excercises. She is 5 feet 4 inches tall. Any suggestions on what pools to look at? Healthy budget.

How serious is the swimming? You may be satisfied with a water jet style current.

@Mike Wrob. Is there a place to read your original Badu Jet Pro review? I don't see it here. Thanks in advance.

SwimEx installed in 2008. Still in good condition. It doesn't have seats so is more for swimming and exercise vs soaking. The current can be adjusted easily. I don't find the sound from the paddle wheel current too noisy but have noticed it is noisier when the water level is low. The mechanicals are under the floor.

@HU-700553381

Overall the Turbo Pro was as expected. The unit was very quiet, I’m sure it would satisfy even the most discerning user. You only hear the flow of the water past your ears, no motor sound at all. It was also quiet out of the pool, so you would not disturb the neighbors. The current was very smooth. Visually there appeared to be a slight chop on top at high speeds, but it was a non issue while swimming. The current was very easy to stay centered in, with one caveat. The current starts fairly narrow where it exits the nozzle (8 inches in diameter) at fans out the length of the pool. The test pool was 20 feet long and 12-15 feet wide. The current slows down as it fans out as would be expected. My sweet spot was with my head 5-6 feet from the nozzle with the my hands entering the water 3-4 feet from the nozzle. I don’t know if it would have been hard to stay centered if I got closer to the nozzle but I suspect it would. If you let yourself drift back, the current slows and it is a good way to catch a breather. I’m not sure if the current would fan out quite so much in a narrower pool. This widening of the current is not a problem, just something to be aware of. I like having the control buttons on the grate, to me that is best location of any of the pools I looked at. However the current varies from 650 gpm to 1500 gpm with only 10 steps. If you need finer control, you can vary your position in the current. You can also control the current at the control box in one gpm increments, but you have to get out of the pool to do that. You can also vary the current in one gpm increments using their app. The current at the highest level was faster than any of the pools I tested and I’m sure it would satisfy most competitive swimmers.

So, am I going to get one? Right now I would say I’m leaning toward the PDC TSX17. While the current of the Badujet was better for serious swimming, the PDC was more than adequate for me. The PDC was a bit smoother, and wider from the beginning. The Badujet was quieter and stronger. However, the big advantage to me of the PDC is that you can just set it in place, connect the electricity and go. The Badujet would require building a pool or installing a fiberglass pool. Don’t get me wrong, the Badujet itself is very easy to install. The challenge for me is getting the pool itself built. Plus, the Badujet would require a larger pool. They recommend a minimum of 10 ft wide and 20 ft long. The width recommendation is in case you want to do butterfly but he said you could do 8 ft if you’re comfortable staying centered in the current. The 20 ft recommendation is to keep the current from going over the back wall at higher settings. This could be solved with a higher back wall. However, since you’ll be swimming a ways back from the front wall, I think 16 ft minimum, probably slightly more, with no seats or steps at your feet. BTW, the unit is flush with the front wall, so there’s that.

@HU-700553381 If you were unable to read the original Badu Turbo Pro review in this thread, then you have probably missed dozens of other comments as well that would be helpful with your research. Make sure you are logged in, then look for a button near the top that says, "See more comments," and click on that to view the full thread.

When your spouse says "deep water running," two versions of that come to my mind with different pool requirements. My first thought would be a deep water well (around six feet for someone of her height, deeper for someone taller than that) for use with a flotation belt where she could do a running motion and other aerobic-style deep water exercises without hitting the bottom. The second scenario would be chest-deep water used with a long walking lane or a treadmill such as Endless Pools offers. If you could clarify which she had in mind, it would help with our recommendations.

You also seem to indicate you would like a pool in which you could swim but that you don't need to do so at competitive speeds. To be honest, there is a HUGE range of "amateur" speeds that we could be talking about here that would point to several different pool requirements. For instance, would you be swimming 10 minutes at a time a couple of times a week with your head mostly above water? If so, an air-jet pool might work fine. On the other hand, are you swimming a full hour at a time several times a week with strokes that keep your head underwater most of the time? If so, you will require an airless jet, propeller, or paddlewheel system to be comfortable. You may even want to consider building a static lap lane if you plan to swim that much.

People who have arthritis such as you said your spouse does respond well to warm temperatures, so you might want to think of looking toward a smaller pool that could stay well heated in order to help with the arthritis issues. However, if you are planning to do a lot of activity in the pool, you may want to look at a separate hot tub because you can only keep a swim spa temperature so warm before it becomes prohibitive to very much exercising.

By way of update, a few months ago, I found an indoor lap lane pool at an area facility that is working perfectly for me, so my thoughts toward a pool in my own yard have been put aside for now. I realize few people live within driving distance of an acceptable, year-round lap swim pool, however, so the search for most of us continues. What resonates with me doing laps in a traditional 25-yard lap pool is the quietness and lack of turbulence compared to my swim spa tests over the last few years. Also, there is no interference from odd currents to using proper stroke form like in my swim spa tests, some worse than others. The yearly fee and effort for using this pool are less than the cost of a swim spa would be for me, and the temperature at this pool is kept around 84°F which is warmer than many of the 78°F to 80°F lap pools I've had access to in the past and helps keep me more comfortable than I have ever been before while lap swimming, though on days the air temperature is also warm, 84°F can be a bit too warm even for leisurely laps. Air temperature and water temperature work together to create an ideal swim environment based on the individual and level of activity, though the water temperature makes the bigger felt difference with changes of just a couple of degrees.

A final comment on SwimEx: the facility where I am swimming laps in the traditional pool also has a SwimEx, my first unit to see in person, though I haven't been able to test the current because the paddlewheel feature is broken and has been for quite some time despite regular maintenance and intermittent repair efforts, according to a therapist with whom I spoke who has worked at the facility for about 20 years. The SwimEx is still kept filled and used as a static therapy well with a temperature near 100°F. I haven't been able to learn when this SwimEx was installed, but SwimEx has only been manufacturing spas under that name since around 1987, and this model appears to be consistent with standard SwimEx designs, so I'm guessing this unit may be beyond its expected 30-year lifespan but not by much (with this comment being written in 2024).

A huge pool enclosure has been built around the SwimEx plus the lap pool, and it appears impossible now to replace the SwimEx with a new one without destroying part of the building. Of course, the old unit could be demolished into pieces small enough for removal through the building's doors, and a modular replacement could be assembled, such as an Endless Pool original built from mostly flat parts. I do feel it would be wise for anyone considering enclosing a swim spa of any brand to think about how a replacement procedure might work were it to become necessary.

I'll end this story with an interesting tidbit, that a physical therapist told me the floor of the SwimEx flexes when you step on it because of the channel designed to circulate the water current that sits underneath the main water well. The paddlewheel itself sits to one side of the water well.

thanks

Hi! Any thoughts or experience with a DYI swim spa from Medallion Pools? Ultra Swim Spa 11. This would be kept in our sum room for relaxation and teaching my kids to swim. This thread of helpful information is smazing! I am now leaning towards no Badu Jet and just a swim tether for peaceful exercise.

Hi all, very informative thread but I wanted to know if anyone has experience using the Fastlane Pro vs BaduJet Turbo Pro. From the information I can see online it seems the Fastlane Pro is very quiet and creates a smoother current. It also has more powerful currents if needed for competitive swimmers. I'm building a new 17' x 30' pool and need a system that is quiet yet powerful enough for conditioning + competitive swimming training for my daughters.
Does anyone have any advice between these two systems? Thanks!

I have an old style Endless Pool which is essentially the same propulsion system as the Fastlane Pro. It’s been a couple years since I demoed the Badujet, but from what I remember it was quieter and definitely produced a stronger current. You just need a big enough pool that you can swim a ways back from the Badujet.

@Mike Wrob Thanks for the reply. Do you remember if the BaduJet Turbo Pro propulsion was as smooth or better than the Fastlane Pro? I've read some comments complaining about the currents not being smooth and steady with the BTP and felt more like the jets were forcefully pushing water on peoples heads which made them uncomfortable. Apparently, the Fastlane Pro is really good at keeping the current evened out and many pro swimmers love the system for their training.

I found the current to be very smooth, but I think the key is that you have to be a few feet back from the unit. Here are the notes from my swim test.

Overall the Turbo Pro was as expected. The unit was very quiet, I’m sure it would satisfy even the most discerning user. You only hear the flow of the water past your ears, no motor sound at all. It was also quiet out of the pool, so you would not disturb the neighbors. The current was very smooth. Visually there appeared to be a slight chop on top at high speeds, but it was a non issue while swimming. The current was very easy to stay centered in, with one caveat. The current starts fairly narrow where it exits the nozzle (8 inches in diameter) and fans out the length of the pool. The test pool was 20 feet long and 12-15 feet wide. The current slows down as it fans out as would be expected. My sweet spot was with my head 5-6 feet from the nozzle with the my hands entering the water 3-4 feet from the nozzle. I don’t know if it would have been hard to stay centered if I got closer to the nozzle but I suspect it would. If you let yourself drift back, the current slows and it is a good way to catch a breather. I’m not sure if the current would not fan out quite so much in a narrower pool. This widening of the current is not a problem, just something to be aware of. I like having the control buttons on the grate, to me that is best location of any of the pools I looked at. However the current varies from 650 gpm to 1500 gpm with only 10 steps. If you need finer control, you can vary your position in the current. You can also control the current at the control box in one gpm increments, but you have to get out of the pool to do that. You can also vary the current in one gpm increments using their app. The current at the highest level was faster than any of the pools I tested and I’m sure it would satisfy most competitive swimmers.

Looks like we have two new commenters in the thread, @HU-1970953433 and @Ricardo Bedoya -- @Mike Wrob has aptly answered your questions, and I wanted to pop in and give a few additional thoughts. The first commenter asked about a Medallion Ultra II Swim Spa, and I had not heard of this brand before, but looking at the website, it appears to be modular pool construction (meaning, flat pieces you assemble on site) similar to Endless Pools Originals with the exception of using BaduJet air-injected jets for propulsion instead of the Endless proprietary propulsion units. My expectation is the cost would be lower for Medallion than Endless simply because Endless pricing tends toward the high side. The Medallion propulsion with an air-injected BaduJet would be inferior to Endless with smooth, propeller wave generation, at least in the opinion of many test swimmers, but both would be loud. These Medallion pools do not appear to be long enough to utilize the newer BaduJet Turbo Pro units that are quieter and smoother than the older BaduJet air-injected jets but that require swimming as much as 6 feet back from the source.

So, in summary, would I recommend a Medallion DIY swim spa? It depends on your needs. You mentioned wanting to teach the children to swim and using a swim tether instead of a swim spa setup, but as a former lifeguard, I cringe when I see anyone talk about tying themselves in the water to anything. There are so many potential horror stories with someone getting panicked and caught in the wrong position in a tether in water. For safety reasons, I'd reject a tether, especially with children. You also mentioned that you wanted this pool to be placed in an existing sunroom, so that limits you to modular pool construction unless you have a large side that could be opened for placement of an acrylic swim spa. To teach children to swim well, you need either a static lap lane or an environment where there is a consistent current that runs the full length of the body with no drag on the feet, and most swim spas of any style introduce this foot drag factor. You also need to be considerate of the children's hearing protection, and so many of these swim spa propulsion units are loud. I would refer you back to the previous posts in this thread for evaluating other options like perhaps placement of an acrylic swim spa outdoors like the Michael Phelps propeller swim spas by Master Spas which have a decent current with minimal foot drag and are relatively quiet at lower speeds or perhaps an in-ground pool build using the BaduJet Turbo Pro which is reported to be also relatively quiet. You could do an in-ground acrylic shell build with a quality shell from some supplier like San Juan or Thursday Pools with a BaduJet Turbo Pro as long as the acrylic shell was long enough to accommodate swimming up to 6 feet back from the current source as described by @Mike Wrob above and as shown in multiple video examples of swimmers using this unit.

Now on to questions from @Ricardo Bedoya -- If it were my pool, I would be focusing more research toward the BaduJet Turbo Pro for your new pool rather than the Endless Fastlane Pro, and here's why: 1) Cost between the two units is roughly the same, and for as many resources as you are putting into this build, you should have as many swimmers as will be using the pool test the current generators you are considering, and a choice may become evident from that which I suspect may show the BaduJet to be quieter in an overall comparison of all frequency levels even if it produces a bit more turbulence; 2) Based on marketing materials listing measurable current data, both the Fastlane Pro and BaduJet Turbo Pro are capable of producing currents strong enough to satisfy the needs of competitive swimmers, so there seems to be no difference there; 3) The Endless Fastlane produces a smooth current, but it does so with a high-pitched hydraulic whine which can damage hearing over long periods of exposure, and the strong rush of water from Endless is just as capable of bothering someone's head as the BadjuJet Turbo Pro current to anyone who is sensitive to that type of thing, and complaints you've seen about the Turbo Pro may be from swimmers who are not swimming far enough back from the current's source due to pool length limitations (your 30' length should be fine) -- the idea that the Endless Fastlane Pro is relatively quiet comes from the fact that it produces almost no turbulence in the water, but the high-pitched whine is still a problem, and you would need to test one of these units to hear what I am describing; 4) The BaduJet Turbo Pro's propeller is completely disconnected from the electricity source, so there is a safety element that puts this unit ahead. Once again, I'd strongly recommend testing both units beforehand and taking with you a list of things to look for during your test so you don't miss anything. Best wishes on your new pool build!

I would just like to second the idea of traveling to try the units out. It might seem excessive, but when you consider how much you're going to be spending on the pool, I think it's worth the investment.

Thank you @MikeWrob and @Aglitter for the great input. It all makes sense and I've contacted both BaduJet and Endless Pools to see if I can try their systems. I gotta figure out how I can get that done before the pool construction begins in the next couple of weeks considering i live in Northern California.

The noise is certainly a concern and if I can only test one I'm actually going to try the Turbo Pro first. I like propeller being disconnected from the electricity source and how the unit is not so bulky like the Fastlane Pro. That was certainly something I dislike about the Fastlane Pro. That big box is hard to miss even if it's wall mounted.

One last concern is the vibration these units make when attached to the walls. Can that potentially create cracks or leaks?

@Ricardo Bedoya I have never heard of a wave generator vibrating cracks in a gunite pool. Pool builds are usually done with a lot of interior rebar and very thick concrete, so I would think any vibration against that would be negligible, especially compared to earthquakes that run through your region on occasion. If you are doing an acrylic shell, that has intrinsic flex in it, so I wouldn't think there would be damage, but your pool builder might have more experience to give you a professional response, as would the wave generator companies themselves.

Endless Pools has a robust system of regional demonstration where existing owners of whatever unit you want to test will be paid a reward if they allow a potential customer to test their pool and that test turns into a sale. With as many pools as there must be in Northern California, I wouldn't think you would need to go far to test a Fastlane Pro with a willing owner.

The BaduJet Turbo Pro might be harder to find locally, mainly because it is a newer product, though I believe BaduJet USA headquarters in Florida does work with some existing regional owners for test opportunities. You'd need to fly a long way to test the Florida setup at headquarters that @Mike Wrob tested a while back, but if that's your only option, then definitely send someone there to test, perhaps the person in your family who will be swimming against the current the most.

I've heard from Endless Pool owners that its wave generator does require routine maintenance, and as you noticed, it is much more bulky and unsightly than the BaduJet Turbo Pro which is mostly maintenance-free. When I tested an Endless Pool, it was one of the acrylic models, and though the wave itself was magnificently smooth, the power of the water rushing against my head was quite uncomfortable for me. In terms of how water hit my head, I much preferred my Michael Phelps Master Spas test with a propeller current that was more turbulent than Endless Pools but hit my head in a more diffuse manner with less force. It may be a matter of personal preference to each swimmer as to what is most comfortable to swim toward.

My guess is the noise is going to be more of a problem with the Endless Pools Fastlane Pro than the BaduJet Turbo Pro. Turbulence equals noise, and the BaduJet Turbo Pro is going to have more turbulence than the Fastlane Pro, but there is something about the way Endless Pools runs its wave generator that creates a high-pitched whine, and those high-pitched noises are more dangerous in terms of potential hearing damage than lower frequencies. With all of those factors taken into consideration, my feeling is that BaduJet is the winner when it comes to the safest noise level. A tech at headquarters told me the Turbo Pro is "very quiet," but that may partially be based on comparison to previous BaduJet products which were notoriously loud. I've never tested a Turbo Pro, so you'll need to ask @Mike Wrob if you have more questions on noise.

Some people would argue you can just wear earplugs regardless of the noise level of a swim current, but truly not everyone can. I have a limited time frame of being able to wear earplugs before I start feeling nauseated, and I usually lap swim for an hour once in the pool which far exceeds my comfortable window for earplugs, so a tolerable noise level in a swim wave generator would be one of my most important qualifiers.

@Aglitter. Thank you so much for your expertise. You are correct, Medallion is not comparable to EP in cost or swim current. A modular design is ideal for easy install, and easy removal and being able to customize with seating and stairs. Outside pool or swimspa sadly isn’t practical with snow and ice. And yes, our sunroom only has french doors off the bedroom., so that limits for modular design. If you know of other modular options made in the USA, please advise. Or of non restrictive swim cords for 4 ft water level. And you are correct, noise level is concerning. I will research further before taking the plunge.

@Aglitter You have given me a lot to consider before I take the plunge. You are correct with noise level concern, price difference, and tether/swim cords for approx. 4 ft of water. I will research it all. With our sunroom and climate our only option is modular.

@Aglitter And i was able to change my user nane from HU-1970953433 assigned by Houzz. Thanks again for this incredible and helpful information!

I just thought I would add a note about Swimex pools. I recently replaced their early generation speed control with a later generation (but not the latest) and the current is incredibly smooth now. I had no idea what I was missing.

Just a note about Swimex. We recently replaced our early generation speed control with a later generation unit (but not the latest). I couldn't believe how much smoother the current was with the later version. I had no idea what we were missing.

@Art How old was your SwimEx Spa and what model?

We had it installed in 2011 but I bought it from someone who had it laying around uninstalled for several years because they had an incompetent contractor and they gave up. I'm guessing it was from 2008. Originally, the only way to adjust the speed was some buttons built into the side of the pool. The speed control we just had installed is programmable and on the wall. (The latest is a tablet, and my Swimex contractor tells me it is even smoother than the one I now have.) It is a 500 one piece. I went with Swimex over other brands because I learned they were used commercially for physical therapy. I figured if they were used commercially they would last forever. We use it 5 hours per week.

@Art SwimEx is indeed known to last longer than many other brands mainly due to the fiberglass construction of the shell on the higher-end models, but just because SwimEx units are used commercially does not mean they are order of magnitude more durable. I realize yours is working well for you; my comment is mainly for other people who may come to this thread. Be aware that issues such as paddlewheel warping and swim generator breakdowns (described previously in this thread) can still be issues anywhere from relatively early in the life of these units to mid-way through. I swim at a facility right now that has a SwimEx that has a paddlewheel that has been non-functional for most of the time it has been installed despite multiple attempts at repair according to a therapist to whom I talked. It is still used as a hot water well for therapy without a functional swim generator. All that said, many users will get up to a 30-year life with a SwimEx swim spa with proper maintenance and use, and the newer generation models may have a better longevity record. Just be aware these will not be lifetime units, so you shouldn't build a building around them without some way to replace in the future when needed.

@elkhorn10 I've never seen a swim tether I thought looked safe, especially for children learning to swim. You need freedom to roll and move in the water to swim properly, and there are so many potential dangers tying yourself to something static like a tether. As a former lifeguard, I've been through American Red Cross training that makes me very cautious about water dangers. For instance, people have been known to drown in water shallow enough for them to stand up in. Panic causes all kinds of bad things to happen, and getting tangled in a swim tether is a recipe for a fatal disaster. It takes about 4 minutes for all hope to be gone of resuscitation in a water emergency, and unless parents are watching children in the pool every second (which they should be) and/or trained as lifeguards, it is likely that much more time than that would pass before anyone realizes a child is even in distress. Please don't risk it. If you don't want to put in a swim wave generator, children can still learn to float and tread water in a static water well, and when the time comes, you can take them to the local YMCA or other facility with full swim lanes where they can practice strokes. Signing them up for a swim team is also a great idea.

@elkhorn10 The more I learn about your setup, the less I think you'll like having a swim spa in your sunroom, particularly because it is so close to a bedroom. A swim spa will evaporate water when it is uncovered--gallons of water routinely--and if it is close to any rooms with sheetrock, you may end up with moisture damage to the walls and ceilings. Swimming in a swim spa is very messy. Water splashes way outside the perimeter of the spa. I've even seen a person install a shower curtain around a swim spa that was located in a garage to keep water off other exercise equipment. You asked if I knew of any other brands of swim spas that are modular, and yes, SwimEx produces a modular style of swim spa that can be brought into close quarters, so you might check with them.

@elkhorn10 Many people in cold climates utilize swim spas outdoors with various covers. If the water is kept well heated and a thermal cover is used when the swim spa isn't in use, the air temperature doesn't need to be particularly warm. The least expensive of these covers is either an inflatable type of plastic dome or a greenhouse-type geodesic-style dome. Endless Pools' acrylic swim spas are the best energy-rated swim spas of which I am aware and are so well insulated that the electricity bill to run and keep them heated is quite low. My personal opinion is that the swim experience in an acrylic Endless Pools is inferior due to foot drag, but it might work for you, and you need to test one to determine how you feel about it. If you were satisfied with an Endless Pools acrylic or any other plug-and-go acrylic swim spa, then you could set a dome over the spa either permanently or just for your snowy and icy months. Years ago, I participated in a swim team that utilized an inflatable pool cover during cold months, and it worked well. I will include a few inspiration photos of swim spa covers below:

@Art Thank you.bI was curious about the age of your system since our SwimEx is 2008 vintage with the buttons to adjust current. So far they are working well.

I have a budget of about 40-50k. I swim long distance crawl and sprint butterfly. I'm totally overwhelmed on where to look. Any suggestions for brands and models? I'm in the Dayton, Ohio area.

MasterSpa, with H2x and Michael Phelps swim spas are made in Fort Wayne. They have a testing showroom. Worth the drive from Dayton.

Thank you!

https://youtu.be/mdn6IEw89Xs?si=GxxsXWqRjKadFdcn

Is endless pools the only option if you want a treadmill with the swim spa?

Swimex has a treadmill option. At least they used to.

@ Mary W Our Swimex is about the same vintage. We were using buttons until about a year ago when someone upgraded to the latest tablet and we inherited their older programmable one. It is a pleasure not to use the buttons anymore. We can have, I think, 99 programs with varying speeds in each so you can start slow, go fast, and end slow. Plus the current is much smoother now with the new speed control. It is supposed to be even smoother with the newest tablet version but basically if you can find someone upgrading to the new tablet version and inherit their programmable version, definitely go for it. We also had some issues with our back wall vibrating too much. I came up with an idea to reinforce it. I don't know who did your installation but Christopher with Rubadubdub has done hundreds of them and he is the best for Swimex service.

@ Aglitter Our Swimex was installed in 2011. I bought it on Ebay from someone who bought it and never installed it so it is probably from 2008. They do require maintenance. Christopher with Rubadubdub has probably installed and maintains about half of all Swimex's installed worldwide. He does our maintenance. Last year our gearbox started leaking oil and that led us to replace the motor and gearbox after 13 years of use. They could have been rebuilt but we decided to replace them. I should add that the new gearbox is an improved design and the oil only has to be replaced once every 10 years. If you have a maintenance guy who knows what he is doing, a Swimex pool can probably last forever. The bearings have to be replaced occasionally, and it needs to be installed correctly. The Swimex pool is designed to carry the weight of the gearbox and motor but some builders ignore installation instructions and place a platform under the motor for extra support. When the pool is filled and settles slightly, the platform restricts the movement of the motor and gearbox, bending the axle for the paddle wheel and breaking seals. People should read installation instructions.

@Art Thanks for the insights on your SwimEx. I'm currently lap swimming at a local gym facility that in addition to the 25-foot main pool has a SwimEx used for therapy, and it is needing a major overhaul with the paddlewheel having been out of commission for most of the last 20 years from what I hear, despite attempts at repair. Due to the limited lifespan of just about any swim spa, with Swimex's fiberglass line being one of the longest of all swim spas on the market today, I think if the choice were up to me, I would still be very interested in the BaduJet Turbo Pro that can be installed and maintained as a separate unit in a traditional in-ground gunite or fiberglass pool.

@HU-477749948 To my knowledge, Endless Pools and SwimEx are the two main USA-based suppliers of underwater treadmills, however, I would be interested to know why you are desiring one because a working current in a swim spa is strong enough to jog against without the extra expense, maintenance, and space that an underwater treadmill takes up. I've used an underwater treadmill in an Endless Pool, and they are indeed very nice to have, but your swim spa options will greatly expand if you would be able to get enough exercise just jogging against the current or learning to swim in it which is more of a whole-body exercise than just the treadmill work.

@sschinde In reply to your inquiry several months ago, I'd be interested to know if you've found what you wanted in a swim spa. Not all that long ago, $40K to $50K could have gotten you quite a nice swim spa, but with today's inflation, once you add the base cost, tax, site prep, electrical work, and delivery, that budget is somewhat limiting. Also limiting is the fact that you swim butterfly. Depending on your wingspan, you may have a very hard time finding a swim spa wide enough to accommodate your natural butterfly stroke. SwimEx dimensions can be customized, but a custom SwimEx is one of the most expensive swim spas on the market and several times your budget. An Endless Pools Original might be wide enough for you, but it isn't as easy to set up as some of the newer plug-and-go acrylic swim spa designs. You might try the Michael Phelps swim spa line by Master Spas. One of those still may not be wide enough for you, but the Michael Phelps line will certainly be powerful enough for both your long distance and sprint drills. If you have the opportunity to test one of the more powerful Master Spas H2X Challenger series (power varies among Challenger models), you might also find that strong enough for you, though it's likely that line won't be wide enough for you.