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lilyfinch

How shade tolerant is sally holmes ?

I hate to start over on my arbor behind the pool but if I don’t get a good show I’ll admit defeat and try again. Note for anyone who does not know .. before I get told roses don’t grow in shade .. the wall was full of red landscape roses in perfect bloom when we moved in . I assumed the moving sunlight was strong enough and planted a ton of roses of my choices back there . They only give a spring bloom with that amount of sun so they have all just about been dug up and potted . I did plant Lyda back there as a test and because I so wanted roses!

if this isn’t the year I may try sally holmes. I’d mostly be thrilled with a spring show but repeat would be great too. shell get dappled sun and sun at the top of the arbor too.

thanks for your insight! Also any shade recommended roses I’d love to know . vapor already gave me one I’ll be using to replace the Leonardo da Vinci .

how will penolope do ?


Comments (32)

  • Ann-SoCalZ10b SunStZ22
    last month

    I’m hoping Tammy from Ontario Canada will share more pics and info on her Sally Holmes... she has one of my favorite specimens of a Sally Holmes rose growing in her enchanted garden. I really wish there was someway to tag people on Houzz. Houzz people... if you’re reading this... will you please work on this feature. I see some people on here able to do it... but I can’t seem to get it to work for me.

  • K S 8b Seattle
    last month

    How is Lyda doing? That's a rose that is supposed to be OK with some shade... You could train Madame Alfred Carriere along that wall and she would probably do OK. I hope someone gives you good news about Sally Holmes! That rose would look lovely in your garden. :)

  • jc_7a_MiddleTN
    last month

    I have 2 Sally Holmes I believe, both planted at the base of very large cedar trees.

    They are struggling, as anticipated.


    I think it has now been two years in the ground and there is not much to report. They definitely aren't dying. just very very slow. One has given me a single round of heavy bloom (one cane) and the other has done almost nothing at all.


    They have a lot going against them:

    - Heavy root competition

    - Heavy shade. Very very little direct sun. Maybe 2-3 hours direct?

    - I do not water regularly or often. Two toddlers makes my evenings very busy.


    The blooms I did get look like the ones in Tammy's pictures.


  • Lilyfinch z9a Murrieta Ca
    Original Author
    last month

    Wow Tammy ! Yours look great . They really do ! I have the same arbor for two other pairs of roses , it’s a great arbor.

    I’m so glad you also mentioned ghislane! I’ve been dying to grow one myself. It is such a beautiful glowing rose . I don’t know why I haven’t ordered it yet to be honest! I’ll look for it and see what else can be shipped with it .

    Krista , I just planted Lyda this January at hebes feet . I really hope she pulls through. I’ve tried trimming all the trees the best we could. Unfortunately there is a pine on the other side of the wall, that is just so massive and even though we trimmed our side as much as we could it’s still shading so much . Slowly I am replacing with part shade happy plants but I really want some roses to work out !

    JC , I hear you on the kids keeping you so busy ! It’s a good thing the rain is pretty good in Tennessee with only a month or two with out a lot . Sounds like your Sally’s will get there slowly .

    Thank you for the lovely pics Tammy!

  • dianela7bnorthal
    last month
    last modified: last month

    Lily I do not have Sally in a shady spot so I can’t comment on her shade tolerance. I wanted to let you know that according to Rogue Valley roses the hybrid musk dr. Robert Korms/ Aptos rose does well even under a pine tree and almost no direct sunlight. Here is mine facing east.

  • Katherine OK zone 7b
    last month

    I have two Lydas under a pair of live oak trees So root competition, dry soil, not enough sun, the works. They only get about four hours of morning sun each day and last year they had at least a few blooms almost the entire growing season, and the spring flush was fab. They both ended the season at about four feet tall. Mine were slow to start, but I think they will work out for you there! I actually planted Sally right next to the two Lydas last fall, so not much to report yet, but I also have a Hebe statue under the oaks so it sounds like we are mind melding when it comes to shade solutions haha

  • Katherine OK zone 7b
    last month

    Also, I feel like I remember reading somewhere that “Secret Garden Musk Climber” was shade tolerant, everblooming, huge, and smells amazing. I‘ve been wanting to try that one but it’s tough to find and I’m not sure my zone is ideal, but maybe that could work?

  • Lilyfinch z9a Murrieta Ca
    Original Author
    last month
    last modified: last month

    Oh wow I totally forgot about secret garden musk !!! I’m going to email burling and ask her thoughts . I had it in Tennessee and it smelled like necco candy wafers . I loved it but it didn’t love our cold snaps . I bet it would be very happy here . And whoops , Lyda being four feet may be tall for me . Maybe I should move it . I thought the shade would keep it short and she is on a slope so one foot of growth is technically brining the rose to her feet. I better figure this part out quickly. Lol I’d love to see what you do with your hebe Katherine. I’d always loved this statue and was so happy to find one inexpensive. I bought it and when she was in my suv , not ten minutes out from where I bought it , she rolled onto her arm and damaged the arm holding the bowl! I couldn’t believe it. Lesson learned for sure .

    dianela , that is so beautiful. Thank you for bringing that rose to my attention!! I had never heard of it .

    Thank you , now I’m feeling a little more optimistic about this bed !!

  • Katherine OK zone 7b
    last month

    Lily, Lyda is four feet but not really “dense” in the shade, if that makes sense? Her airyness might work because you’d be able to see Hebe through the bush. I don’t know about Cali, the land of monster roses, but if I wanted to keep Lyda shorter here it wouldn’t be too tough, just pruning back more when she’s deadheaded would keep them pretty small.

  • Kes Z 7a E Tn
    last month

    Lilyfinch, I don't know how my experience will help you but Sally Holmes did not do as well in shade as some of my other musk roses or even some of my polyanthas. It got sun only after noon for several hours (3 or 4, maybe). Some roses seemed to do well enough but SH eventually faded away. You are in Cali- your sun may be more intense so SH may appreciate the extra shade.

  • Lala Idaho Zone 7a
    last month

    The Sally Holmes in my moms garden is seriously amazingly beautiful but it is in full sun. I will take a photo of it this spring, the huge clumps of flowers are gorgeous.


    I had Tess D Uberville in almost full shade that got a little dappled sun a few times a day. It bloomed very well all through summer!

    I am not sure it would be tall enough to go over a trellis. If I remember correctly I don’t think red is one of yours favorite colors?

  • sautesmom Sacramento
    last month

    I have Don Juan in mostly shade. In Winter it gets no sun at all. It's constantly blooming.
    Carla in Sac

  • susan9santabarbara
    last month
    last modified: last month

    My Sally Holmes is on the north side of a wooden fence, so doesn't get sun in the winter at all, but half sun in the spring and fall, and pretty much full sun in the summer. Maybe 15-ish years old. Her spring bloom is beyond spectacular. I keep hearing that she re-blooms, but not so much here... maybe a few here and there. Even the person at the local nursery said she's a once-bloomer here when I bought her. I'm not a huge fan of once-bloomers, but her spring bloom is so beyond amazing that I'll always keep her. I don't post pics here, but I'm almost tempted to drag out my pics of her, so that's saying something! The other roses on this same fence are Eden and William Allen Richardson, both of whom re-bloom well.

  • Mischievous Magpie (CO 5b)
    last month

    Since you all are talking about shady conditions, can you help me place a rose? Which is the better situation for a "shade tolerant" rose: 4ish hours of morning sun and maybe 1 hour or so of evening sun, or 5 consecutive hours of only afternoon (hot) sun?


    Actually, Lilyfinch, the rose I'm asking about is Roald Dahl, don't you grow that one? What are the sun conditions you have it in and how is it doing?

  • Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
    last month

    Please remind me of what I suggested! LOL!

  • dianela7bnorthal
    last month
    last modified: last month

    mischievous-magpie: it probably varies by location. I am sure 4-5 hours of hot afternoon California sun would burn many roses. In my humid zone most roses would prefer the morning sun but do ok with just afternoon sun. The morning sun dries the leaves and prevents blackspot. My RD gets morning sun before getting shaded by a tree and then gets some evening sun also. It gets blackspot but recovers well and blooms great.

  • Mischievous Magpie (CO 5b)
    last month

    Thanks dianela, that's helpful!

  • jc_7a_MiddleTN
    last month

    Carla I have Don Juan growing around a cedar tree trunk and it’s actually doing pretty well.

    This is starting its third year so I’m hoping for more blooms.


    I had always read it needed all the sun and heat it could get.

  • Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
    last month
    last modified: last month

    In good sun my Sally Holmes is a constant bloomer; I imagine she could take more shade in California. Gdf only gives me one flush per year in quite a bit of shade oh, but I suspect I may get at least a fall flush when a shading tree is removed. I might also suggest Phyllis bide. This Rose does well in shade as does another Rose called Chuckles. Chuckles maybe too bright for you though. I have a few on my slightly faded hill that do well so far such as Applejack and Wilhelm and of course Darlow's Enigma. For a small single I would suggest the Tooth Fairy. You can ask Burling about it since I got mine from her. Marie Pavie also comes to mind along with an all-time favorite, Pink Pet.

  • Feiy Lo (PNWZ8b)
    last month

    Country Dancer is one of my most shade tolerant rose. She gets only 2-3hr sun yet still gives me lots of flowers. Lovely raspberry fragrance, not overwhelming. I choose her because RVR says she's very shade tolerant. I'm in Seattle so it's very impressive.


    Pictures taken last June before she got into the ground.



  • Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
    last month

    ! Wow wow! I will have to look into that one. I think that's a buck Rose. Somehow I just always think they're a black spot a mess here so I ignore them but yours looks quite healthy. Do you spray?

  • Feiy Lo (PNWZ8b)
    last month

    Vapor, she is clean here. I don't spray. The first year she didn't do much for me, but last year she might think she's ready and grew to a 4 ft tall decent plant. I grow her with Lyda, New Face and Doctor Robert Korns, these 4 are all wonderful in shade. (Thank RVR's hint.)

  • Feiy Lo (PNWZ8b)
    last month

    New Face


    Doctor Robert Korns (Aptos)


    Lyda with Country Dancer on the back


  • Mischievous Magpie (CO 5b)
    last month

    Wow Lyda is so pretty!

  • Ann-SoCalZ10b SunStZ22
    last month

    Feiy Lo: WOW! The roses you grow have such a special and unique bloom form. I’m especially Fran to Lyda.

  • Ann-SoCalZ10b SunStZ22
    last month

    I was so smitten with Lyda that I had to do a bit of research... according to Heirloom it blooms profusely in shade.

  • Ann-SoCalZ10b SunStZ22
    last month

    Another roses that will bloom profusely in shade... but it’s not a climber... and just a small to moderate 3-4 ft size shrub rose... is Bolero.

  • Ann-SoCalZ10b SunStZ22
    last month

    Thank you Feiy Lo. Lyda Rose reminds me a bit of dogwood blossoms which I adore and would look forward to seeing every spring when I lived in New York.

  • Ann-SoCalZ10b SunStZ22
    last month

    Apparently Lyda’s blooms are more white in hot climates. Maybe this would be a good option once it has a similar look to Sally Holmes in its bloom form.

  • Ann-SoCalZ10b SunStZ22
    last month

    If you’re looking for a shade tolerant shrub rose... then I can personally vouch for Bolero. It was nearly just as prolific in the open shade as it was in full sun.

  • Feiy Lo (PNWZ8b)
    last month

    I have Bolero and it does well for me, too. There are some other roses also do good job in my part shade yard: Secret, Midnight Blue, and Poseidon. My garden is very young, and I hope more roses can take off this year.