Sorry to hear you're going through this. Yes, it's almost certainly a result of improper waterproofing that is causing all the trouble.

It's a little difficult to tell what your expert intends to do, but generally speaking, yes - you'll need to remove the bottom half of the shower. Fix any water-related damage. I would recommend a topically-applied liquid water-proofing membrane over the pan, walls, bench etc. You'll be looking for them to use products like Hydroban, 8+9, Aquadefense, or RedGard.

"durarock cement-then just tile the shower WITHOUT covered with the liquid waterproof membrane,"

Say no more. That is the cause of your water issues. You are finding out grout is not waterproof. The cracking is movement. Expansion, Unfortunately you are looking at a rip out and do over.

Ripped Jeans Construction

The bathroom expert will demo the floor and bench. They will apply the rubber membrane 2 tiles above the bench and 2 tiles above the floor and curbs. then apply that liquid membrane waterproof, then tiles. They will not demo the whole tiles, the top tiles wont get too much water- we just need more dilligently for the grout- do you think this acceptable? Should I stay with the mosaic style for the floor? someone told me those have a lot of grouts- absorb more water. Thank you for giving me the name of that liquid membrane.

"we just need more dilligently for the grout- do you think this acceptable?"

Nope. The pan (floor) & curb requires a completely different process than the walls. The waterproofing needs to be behind all the tile. Look the issue is already that you are getting water, mold and eventually rot. Fix it once and for all. Stop with the Band-Aids. Grout is not and was never intended to be waterproof. This needs to be gutted to the studs. THE ENTIRE SHOWER!!!

millworkman

we will try to get the estimate for total gutted out-

Id get the Full gut and rebuild estimate from A tile professional, not the crew that was willing to take your money for the supposed patch repair. Thats def not who you want.

Just wondering why the original contractor insisted that he has been installing his system, never had any problem- he kept telling us the water came through that cracked grout under the marble threshold but could not explain why the wall behind the bench have the same issues. He has been in business for a long time, just do not understand since it is a basic requirement that using a cement board/durarock still absorbing water, is still need a waterproof membrane such as Hydroban, 8+9, Aquadefense, or RedGard, Did he make mistake and forget to use this membrane? With my situation, which ones should I choose?

Ripped Jeans is correct. There are multiple systems that are acceptable and within industry standards. The actual qualified tile professional will have his or her preferred system and will not need the client to advise them. While you can receive some helpful advice here, diagnosing your problem and recommending an industry approved correction requires and onsite consult with a real professional. And yes, sadly, there are many unqualified people doing sub-standard work. The "been doing this for 30 years..." response is kind of an industry "meme" if you get the point. The professional industry is working on furthering our education to the consumer for these reasons. Improperly built showers are a thorn in the consumer experience and for the professional industry. Hire wisely. A few places to "start" the process of hiring a qualified installer: https://www.tile-assn.com/search/custom.asp?id=2759 and: https://www.ceramictilefoundation.org/find-certified-tile-installers

Ripped Jeans Construction and Dragonfly Tile & Stone Works, Inc.

We just want to understand, learn and gain some knowledge of this waterproof membrane- We placed our trust to the contractor - assuming they will know what they are doing, The only thing we dont understand how could he skip the most important items " waterproof the Durarock? " The sadness is he get away but we are doing the best thing we can to survive financially . We are not rich-this is our saving of 20 years to get our dream kitchen and bathroom.

Unfortunately your dream bath will need to be completely gutted. One doesn't need tile or grout to shower in a properly waterproofed shower. If done correctly, you could shower in it before any tile or grout goes on. Meaning tile and grout are NOT waterproof. The only way to correct it all is to gut the whole thing and start over with a tile guy who follows the tile foundation standards. That will probably also cost you more money than you paid your hack.

Good Morning Everyone, Thank you all of the advises. My contractor decided to DEMO and WILL do the right things but unfortunately he admitted he never seen/ faced this problem by using the cooper pan nor needing using the waterproof membrane. He will give us his best TILE guy ( HE/the owner installed the tile at the beginning)to get this right and he apologized that we had to deal with this issue. He asks so many question on how to do so - waterproof the bench and flash /connect tight this WProof membrane to the copper pan. We told him that we were clueless and only learned recently. We need some advises or knowledge what is the best solution regarding the Copper Pan-since last conversation with the owner- there was no WEEPING HOLES when the plumber told us HE should be the one to do so? We thought the weeping holes were done by the manufacture? if we leave the copper pan -cement board and cover it with plastic waterproof membrane on top, do you think this is the right thing or we need to demo the floor/ take out the cooper pan? The last expert told us it is nothing wrong the copper pan since the water is over flooded-but we were worried about none of them place the weeping holes that in the long run we will have the same issue or create mold? -we dont have any knowledge at all but we have google a lot. If someone can give us a direction / solution what is the correct way to solve this - I guess I just find out only few states ( MA and NY?) that the UNION insists the plumber to use Copper Pan. From the bottom of my heart- We are able to breath when the contractor is willing to take care his mistakes.

You’re just setting things up for a second failure if you’re using the same crew with the same technology.

You need a professional tile installer and not the hack who has no clue what he's doing. You are not saving yourself money by using the same guy because when the walls behind the shower are rotted, the cost to redo it correctly will be double what it would cost you to do it right with the right people now.

Do not be penny wise and pound foolish.

We are trying to figure out and understand the correct way to build this-at least when we talk with the tile guy - we are not being duped again. He is going to claim to his insurance and pay for all of the materials - at least we should give that - Unless both of us agree that he is willing to have someone who has more knowledge to do the job. It is a gut job -We are not trying to teach any contractor on how to do it- but would like to have the knowledge- He is old fashioned contractor - I guess he did not update his knowledge with the current trend. We did not expect that he would take care -but we cant be relieved until the demo is done correctly.

Good Morning again,

Went to the special TIle store- I understand each store will sell their product in the store. There are several ways to build the shower using: Kerdi, Wedi, plastic membrane etc- I also aware Wedi is having problem in the California but not kwon issue in Massachusetts. Please if anyone is willing to give us any input since we prefer to take out the copper pan out- gut out job, so we want to make sure which ones will last a little bit longer. Thank you so much for your help

@hkwan Did you find another contractor to do the work?

I think we mentioned this before; it's not useful for you to decide on the system, only decide on a contractor you trust. The contractor will have a system they use - ask about it, and that's when it's time to do the research. All the systems are fine when done properly.

Ripped Jeans Construction-If we did not go asking / getting this knowledge- we will not find out that all of the 3 expert would plan to fix the shower- are done the right way. Trying to flashing the plastic membrane to the existing copper pan or just cover up the copper pan with the plastic membrane ( not sure if water can going btw-maybe this is the way to fix it to minimize the cost). If we have known the correct way-we would insist to apply the waterproof membrane. Honestly all we are trying to do here- what is the best/ right system to build the shower-we feel iit will demo- Unfortunately we have a feeling- it will get done by B's trustee/ tile's expert-HE will not touch the job and we have not met this person and would like to ask some question to find out if he has the knowledge if we decide to go to a different system -WEDI or KERDI. that is all.

Every contractor deserves the chance to correct his mistakes. I'm pretty sure a judge would agree with me. The fact that you've got a guy willing to own up puts you miles ahead of most who post here.

@hkwan both Wedi and Kerdi are good systems with solid warranties. Schluter and Wedi also both have good Youtube channels with installation information, so you can see a shower actually being built.

@hkwan I would post photos, your story and your query over at the John Bridge tile forum, which is where professional tilers offer advice to the homeowner on all of these questions. There will likely be a professional over there who is familiar with the exact waterproofing techniques best implemented with a copper shower pan. (It sounds like a specific regional practice.) Best of luck!

Here is the direct link to the advice forum:

https://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1