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New Build: Where to invest for greatest house sales value?

JeanHay
2 years ago
last modified: 2 years ago

Hi - was looking for some advice. My partner (a chef) didn't have work during COVID so we thought he could start a second career building houses.

We bought a block of land and just got approved to build 1.5 hours north of San Francisco. One of the things we are struggling with is where to invest to get the greatest return when we sell (hopefully in October). The house size was limited by the small block, but now we have questions like:

- Ikea kitchens or not?

- Skylights?

- Countertops? Is a nice ceasarstone enough?

- Quality of flooring? Or just a nice vinyl wood floor?

- In the kitchen the ceilings will be 12ft. Is it worth investing to put a soffit or something in?

- Bathrooms, do we invest with fancy tiles that go to the ceiling?

- Fireplace or not?

- Put a fancy beam in the big ceiling?

- How much to invest in the landscaping? We want it to look tidy and neat to sell?

- Fence or deck out the back (lots of traffic noise out the back)

Would love advice - we would hope to get good return, but the houses around it (unrenovated sell for about $500K so we are hoping our new build generates a lot more.) But how do you tell where to spend the money? What really appeals to house buyers?









Comments (54)

  • JeanHay
    Original Author
    2 years ago

    Plans have been approved by county. But you are right, I just found out that it's tough to add a skylight after approval

  • suedonim75
    2 years ago

    So your partner is going to be the General Contractor? How do you make the leap from Chef to home builder? My husband works for a multi-million dollar contracting firm that can’t get supplies. And they have long standing relationships with the suppliers. I’m curious how you plan to get them? And you are looking at paying retail or close to retail.

  • tlynn1960
    2 years ago

    Aging in place brings a whole different set of needs so you need to educate yourself on CAPS modifications if your intent is to market this as suitable for aging in place. No steps, excellent lighting, easily accessible storage (kitchen drawers) instead of reaching overhead, extra space to move safely in a bathroom with non-slip surfaces/weight bearing safety grab bars (pretend you're moving around with a yardstick at your waist to visualize adequate spacing)-the list goes on and on even down to lever door handles instead of knobs. Huge emphasis on function and safety over design/decor choices.

  • suedonim75
    2 years ago

    Most retirees don’t want to live in a neighborhood with a lot of young families. And by your description, that’s the neighborhood you are building in.

  • shirlpp
    2 years ago

    Is it the norm in the neighborhood to have a kitchen at the front entry like that?

    You either like Ikea kitchens or not. I personally do not.

    Where would the fireplace go in your plan? Are they the norm for the neighborhood.

    I might have started flipping rather than building.

    Good Luck!


  • HU-161159613
    2 years ago

    I would invest in the kitchen and bathrooms and also use LVP throughout the house. Good luck!

  • kevin9408
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    If a retired couple was out shopping for a house this wouldn't be the one. And if they have 600K to spend wouldn't they want something nicer and farther away to get a better bang for the buck? They can move anyplace they want.

    It's a terrible floor plan, sorry but horrible. NO back door? What are you thinking! It's a head shaker, and you don't need to full baths. A bath and a half at the most, with a small bed room in the front which can double as an office, and larger master in the back and baths in between. The living room/kitchen then runs the length on the other side from front to back with a back door. I'd say invest in a new architect.

    And icky, I mean Ikea is for young ones without any taste who usually need a job and must live close to the cities. I do see the door in the bedroom, biggest mistake anyone could ever do building a house. Oh, good luck.

  • cpartist
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    I'm retirement age and I wouldn't want to retire in that house. Including the fact that it would not be safe for a retiree with only one entrance/exit. No garage. And no backyard? Too small bathroom? Too small closet?

    Who designed this?

    This design shows you don't know what you don't know. Sorry to be blunt, but this is just bad on so many levels.

  • suedonim75
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    I honestly don’t understand how you think this will work. You will be lucky to break ground, let alone be finished by OCT. You have no established relationships with subs or suppliers. Every trade is booked out for months and months. How much experience in construction does your partner have?

    What are the sizes of the other houses in the neighborhood? Why would someone buy your more expensive/smaller home when they could buy a cheaper/larger one and renovate? New doesn’t always mean better. The neighborhood is what determines the sale price, not necessarily what you spent to have it built. Building a $600,000 house in a $500,000 neighborhood is a terrible plan.

  • Marigold
    2 years ago

    I know you are being piled on here, but these are my (non-designer) thoughts. If the back of the house has a lot of traffic noise, could you move the bedroom windows to the side walls instead?

    As a senior, if I was wanting a one level home, I would not buy one that had steps to enter.

    I wouldn't want a closet with bifold doors in my living room. It makes furniture placement more difficult as well. I think I would reduce that second bathroom, and put storage elsewhere.

    I agree with LVP throughout, and I would not do the fancy beam.


  • suedonim75
    2 years ago

    Yes, the OP is getting piled on. But these are all things she needs to hear. You don’t just decide on a whim to start a business building houses. Especially when you have no prior relationship to the building industry. No contacts, and no experience.

  • Mrs. S
    2 years ago

    Ignore the comments crumbing on Ikea kitchens. For a $600K house in Calif, Ikea cabs would be an excellent choice. Although... I have read here the ordering process has been poor lately, and shipments spotty. This is a tough time to take on a build. Yes, you definitely need the advice of a successful realtor, or three. You can check out your competition yourself, on realtor.com. See what sells and for how much. I hope you are in a great school district, because in Calif, those are the homes with skyrocketing prices.


  • NotMyCircus NotMyMonkeys
    2 years ago

    Spend money on better design. The rest is irrelevant fluff when a house is that poorly designed.

  • shirlpp
    2 years ago

    Got it - being a chef the kitchen is very important to your partner, thus....the kitchen at the front entry. Still....your partner is not really thinking about resale only "me".

  • remodeling1840
    2 years ago

    This is a financial disaster waiting to drain your resources. You could end up in bankruptcy. Building without any experience? You are asking basic questions, but investing hundreds of thousands of dollars. You could lose it all. You don’t know your market, you don’t know design, you don’t know construction. You two need to stop. Hold on to that lot if you wish, but you need experience in the construction field before you go a step further. I would be as adamant to a contractor who decided to chuck it all and buy a restaurant so he could be a chef.

  • WestCoast Hopeful
    2 years ago

    Nowhere did they say the have no prior relationship to the building industry and no contacts or experience. While I personally have lots of questions about this idea I’m making no assumptions.

    Questions I have are:
    Have you spoken to local realtors about the area and what you might expect as a return?

    Have you included a designer in the process to make sure the build is suitable for your target market?

    Have you fleshed put budget to ensure you can afford this?

    What skills do you and your partners have that make you feel confident you can take on a project of this size?

    I realize it’s possible to be a chef and have other skills. Giving you tie benefit of the doubt it sounds like a fun adventure and I hope you think it through and make sure it’s all doable

  • 3onthetree
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    Not sure what is defined as "got approved to build," if that means just planning and zoning or if you actually submitted these plans for permit yourself.

    This reminds me of a simple cabin or a manufactured home from a few decades ago, so I wouldn't go large on finishes. But, lots of buyers are awed by fancy tile and good staging a'la their HGTV soaked brains, local realtors can give you a feel for the market. So they may overlook the lost opportunity with the house, buy it, and be posting here on this forum in a few years about how to rearrange the house to make it better and sellable in any market condition.

    It will be super easy (read: cheap) to build. Considering CA prices it will translate to a huge markup for the contractors, whether there is still room for a high profit for you is unknown.

  • JJ
    2 years ago

    The plan is fine. Ikea kitchens are fine. I've done a couple. I guess 600k isn't what it used to be! Crazy.


    But in the end I agree with the others. What on earth do you or your husband know about building? Evidently nothing. Who is financing this? They must not teally care about a return.

  • Architectrunnerguy
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    As noted above, the best advice you're going to get is from local real estate agents, not from folks of unknown backgrounds and design ability who happen to be surfing the net when you posted.

    I don't do speculative housing anymore but FWIW, while it's hard to tell from construction/permit drawings the "feel" of a house, curb appeal is very important and I have a feeling your house won't have much. You want folks driving up, and upon their first look at the house, before they even get out of the car, want them wanting more. Since it's a small house, you want to get the "cuteness" factor going. That's going to go a lot further than "fancy beams in the ceiling". Example:


    Regarding the plan, again I'd defer to local agents, but to me it looks more like a seasonal lake cottage than a year round retirement home.


    And that's advice coming from someone of unknown background and design ability.....lol.....

  • remodeling1840
    2 years ago

    West coast Hopeful-read the entire second sentence of the OP. “ we thought he could start a second career building houses.”

  • calidesign
    2 years ago

    #1 in real estate is location, so if it backs up to traffic/noise, you will need a tall fence and shrubs. All the windows need to be larger. Remove the closet and builtin desk from the living area so your living room arrangement has more options. Change the master bedroom window to french or sliding doors for access outside. LVP would work for floors throughout the space. Put as much storage as you can in the kitchen utilizing the high ceilings. Likely the purchaser would be a first home for a single or couple. Based on the questions you're asking, it seems that you need the advice of a local real estate agent and also a designer. Spending some money for good advice can save you from huge, expensive mistakes.

  • HU-291331155
    2 years ago

    There are 5M mobile homes in Malibu, so location cures all things ugly, awkward, and downscale. But this does need a heck of a lot of reworking to get some curb appeal and usability.

  • Louise Smith
    2 years ago

    Just to add more minor problems. The window in the master bedroom is off center because of the closet. It is a very difficult room in which to position furniture, especially a king bed with two night tables. Also, the window in the shower is less than ideal.

  • WestCoast Hopeful
    2 years ago

    @remodeling1840 when someone starts a second career that doesn't mean they have no skills. You are assuming they know nothing. I'm asking questions and giving the benefit of the doubt. Many people spend time learning a new craft or dabble in it as a hobby for years before taking the official plunge.

  • tangerinedoor
    2 years ago


    @JeanHay Someone like me, I guess, would be your target buyer. There's so much missing here for someone who wants to "age in place". And the layout and aesthetics are making me shudder.


    Even apart from the house, is there a bus service right outside? Where's the library? How do you get to healthcare. And, it sounds like it'll be noisy because of traffic. Retirees are home more hours than non-retirees. Listening to traffic would not be my choice for "home".


    If you're doing a small house, and expect it to sell (not to mention at a premium to the neighborhood), IMO it has to have some INSTANT appeal. The drafter hasn't thought about aesthetics, proportion, filled space vs blank space, etc etc. A two-bedroom house can be adorable, but you gotta have someone design it who is familiar with "adorable."


    It doesn't really make for payback when you have one house in the neighborhood so much above the others in terms of features. The value of the house will be tugged downward by the values of other houses. I don't think you can expect to make a killing on building a house, and investing a lot of money in it, when it will be an outlier: you may very well not be able to sell the home for what you put into it.


    My recommendation would be to scrap the plan entirely. Start over. Decide who your target customer is. And absolutely, GET A NEW ARCHITECT. This one hasn't a clue: it looks like the plan has been put together by someone who has no experience with how humans move through space, what code requires, or aesthetics.

  • PRO
    RappArchitecture
    2 years ago

    Absolutely agree with the above. Find someone who knows how to design houses. Talk to realtors about what local buyers want. And give up on the October deadline. There's a lot of money at stake, so it's far better to do it right than do it fast.

  • C Marlin
    2 years ago

    Another thought, if other comments are correct, you may be able at this time to sell your lot for a profit without risking the build.

  • worthy
    2 years ago

    ^^^^

    Absolutely the best bet!

  • Josie23: Zone 5: WI
    2 years ago

    You say your plans are approved, so I will not comment on those, but I agree with many of the comments here, and if you can you may want to rethink the design.


    Congrats on being brave and going outside your box trying to find a way to continue your income stream during Covid. I hope it works out.


    What to invest in? Look at other houses in the area to see what their upgrades are. A retired couple doesn't need a gourmet kitchen (unless they are retired chefs) but good quality cabinets, and appliances. Soft close cabinets are wonderful, in the bathroom soft close toilet seats are nice, make sure the handles you choose for sinks/cabinets etc are easy to grip for older/weaker arthritic hands.


    If this is a mature neighborhood, put money in landscaping so it matches other homes around you.


    One question.. where will the hot water heater, furnace, dehumidifyer, sump pump etc be going? Is there a partial basement that is not in the plans.


    Watch your budget and what you think the home will sell for, like others are saying prices are up triple what they were just a few years ago when I build my house and it's hard to get materials. My builder told us that if we were building last year instead of 2017-18 it would have costs us $60K more just in wood alone, not to mention it is impossible for him to find help the past couple of years. We got lucky we build when we did.


    I wish you luck maybe you can live there and open a resturant of your own nearby :)

  • JeanHay
    Original Author
    2 years ago

    Thanks everyone. You've got to love Houzz for getting really honest feedback. I do value it and have read it all. Definitely lots to consider. We are going ahead but perhaps I will update the thread on where we landed at the end of the year! Appreciate the advice

  • tozmo1
    2 years ago

    I love irrational exuberance when it's not my money on the line. Let us know what happens. 😮

  • suedonim75
    2 years ago

    In other words, I don’t want any negative feedback so I’m not posting anymore! 👍🏻

  • tangerinedoor
    2 years ago

    Why do people ask for advice and then respond to it with "thanks y'all but no, advice is kinda irrelevant to my project"? I always feel like my time and effort has been ripped off when this happens.

  • suedonim75
    2 years ago

    Its usually only the ones who get told that their ideas are not realistic. There is quite a bit of delusion going on here.

  • cpartist
    2 years ago

    ^^^ more than a bit.

  • cpartist
    2 years ago

    We are going ahead but perhaps I will update the thread on where we landed at the end of the year! Appreciate the advice

    I'm betting you won't be much further along than you are now with the way building is going throughout the country. Best of luck.

  • CYNTHIA JONES
    2 years ago

    I try to only post when I have something positive to contribute. After all, I'm just some person with a life-based opinion, not an expert in the field. But I gotta admit, I love following these sorts of threads.


    I started a law practice with my husband straight out of law school because we believed in ourselves. With 20/20 hindsight, it wasn't the easiest approach. It certainly involved going into and out of debt a couple of times. But 20 years later, we still work for ourselves and are happy with how it all turned out.


    So I always wish the best to those crazy young idealists, even while I shake my older, wiser (aka cynical) head. Sometimes I miss the days when I was willing to take a risk. Sure, it's not an easy path. Sure, they always way underestimate how hard it will be. Sure, there's a real chance at failure (and sadly it is the likely outcome for most). But those are just the odds, you never actually know how it will go for a particular person. You also can't underestimate gumption and perseverance. Worst case scenario, they'll learn an expensive lesson. Hopefully they'll get back on their feet and take that experience forward.


    (I'm not saying the plan is a good idea- I also 100% agree that home building without any experience in the field, particularly right now, is a pretty risky endeavor).

  • WestCoast Hopeful
    2 years ago

    They didn’t say they have no experience. Houzz loves to attack someone who may not have shared all the facts. Someone saying they are going ahead doesn’t mean they aren’t modifying plans and making changes based on feedback here. People are so good at assuming the worst.

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    JeanHay:

    To answer your question, go through some model homes please. Tract builders build what the public wants to buy. If you want to get out of this alive, you'll rip off their designs and their subs.

  • cpartist
    2 years ago

    So I always wish the best to those crazy young idealists, even while I shake my older, wiser (aka cynical) head. Sometimes I miss the days when I was willing to take a risk. Sure, it's not an easy path. Sure, they always way underestimate how hard it will be. Sure, there's a real chance at failure (and sadly it is the likely outcome for most). But those are just the odds, you never actually know how it will go for a particular person. You also can't underestimate gumption and perseverance. Worst case scenario, they'll learn an expensive lesson. Hopefully they'll get back on their feet and take that experience forward.

    I agree with you 100% about the gumption and the idealism. And I too never made the assumption they had no experience at all. To me the big elephant in the room is the floor plan. It's just very poor and not well thought out, especially if they're going after retirees. It shows they don't know what they don't know when it comes to home design, and especially design for those aging in place.

  • kevin9408
    2 years ago

    With every investment there is a risk to reward ratio, the higher the risk the higher the reward, the art is knowing when to take the risk. Look at bitcoin. 59K to 37K in 12 days, late comers were destroyed. I believe the investment by the OP is a late comer with bad timing where the risk level is high but the reward, if any will be low.

  • tangerinedoor
    2 years ago

    IMO the design—inside and out—reflects lack of experience and a misunderstanding of the market.

  • maifleur03
    2 years ago

    I was fine with the idea of a chef building a new home until the design. People have done various things throughout their lives but looking at the design told me that there was little experience both in building and actually looking at house interiors. What really shocked me was when the OP mentioned that it had been approved. Each area is different but would not pass in this area.

  • tangerinedoor
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    @maifleur03 I didn't understand the "approved" thing, either. Maybe they were approved for a construction loan, and the approval is nothing to do with the building? And maybe they were approved for the loan, but the design etc. have not been approved by the lender? Or maybe the town has approved in the sense that "we have permission to build on that lot."

    The house wouldn't pass an inspection, so there's no way that design has been approved. IMO

  • maifleur03
    2 years ago

    For those that are wondering what I saw that I questioned is the front which would be one room does not show the bracing that would needed to be there to protect the roof from collapsing. There are other things but that is the most glaring to me.

  • AllAmericanAmy
    2 years ago

    My advice.... is either listen to Joseph Corlett advice and do as he said OR sell your lot now and run. If you decide to press forward, please do yourself a favor and go TALK to people at Lowe's, Home Depot, wherever that work at these stores. Millwork will tell you they can't get doors and windows. Lumber will tell you the prices are up 3 times normal... on the lumber they CAN get. Kitchen cabinets will tell you their normal lead time of 6-8 weeks is now 4 and 5 months possibly longer. Appliances will tell you there is very limited options available due to severe supply chain issues. Flooring will tell you... well, you get the idea. Don't take our word for it... go ASK the employees in these places and CALL electricians/plumbers/HVAC people and see if they are even taking jobs. Builders/contractors where I'm at in South Carolina are booked through this entire YEAR and well into next year with all the jobs they can handle. I believe this is true in many parts of the country as people have sat home for 12 months looking at Houzz and thinking "I want to renovate NOW". Best of luck to you...

  • bry911
    2 years ago

    Before the pandemic hit I was building and selling plans that looked very similar to this.


    These were small cottages that I sold to landlords for rental properties. I think your design could be improved by someone with experience building small cottages to sell. For example, the walk in closet eats up a lot of space, we install nice Ikea wardrobes with a lot of interior accessories and find people respond to that well.


    We sunk the front door in order to avoid the porch.


    We designed our Ikea kitchen and then designed the structure around that. Essentially the kitchen was sized to accept Ikea cabinets and the windows were placed with the Ikea cabinet design in mind.


    The key to being successful flipping houses is to use your proficiencies to create value for other people by making less money look like more money. Come up with half a dozen premium features that you can economically do and then design your entire structure to showcase those things.


    Good luck

  • PRO
    RappArchitecture
    2 years ago

    The OP seems to have walked, which is not unusual in these types of threads. We are mostly talking among ourselves

  • shirlpp
    2 years ago

    RappArchitecture - The OP did say she will update at the end of the year and thanked us for our honesty.