Honestly I would not use anything S/P in my home. The product quality, fit and finish, performance and customer service are all below average.

@millworkman Thanks. What would you suggest as an alternative, given the details above?

Marvin Essentials or Elements in Fiberglass. Marvin Ultimates or Kolbe Ultra in wood clad aluminum.

We have the SP H-3 windows (black) and have been very satisfied with both performance and aesthetics.

@millworkman What specific problems have you found with Milgard Ultra c650 fiberglass? Would you mind expanding a bit about the specifics in below average "product quality, fit and finish, performance and customer service" of the Sierra Pacific H3 line of windows. If we do end up going with them, we can keep a look out for the problem areas you highlight here, or your specifics may direct us towards another choice. You (and others who regularly comment in this forum) have a great deal of knowledge and experience and can help us understand by sharing the "nuts and bolts" of your strongly-held conclusions.

Thanks also for your window/door alternatives -- among those, are there better choices for sliding doors, as opposed to the casement windows we're installing? What is it about those companies and lines that gets your thumbs up?

What does anyone think of their claim -- "H3® Fusion Technology™ is the perfect integration of extruded aluminum, vinyl and wood. Its patent pending design and construction gives it an industry-leading seal against the elements." Since we are looking for little or no air/water infiltration against rain and wildfire smoke, this claim sounds very attractive.

@mark1993 Glad you like your choice. How long have you had your H3 black bean windows? What maintenance if any have you had to do? Do you have casements and how is the seal against water and air? Did they arrive for install free of factory defects? Would you mind uploading a photo or two? Thanks so much.

Hi Kaya,

We moved into our new buld in April. of course, it has been a very short time so no maintenence as of yet. Our builder recommended SP and used thrm in his own home. We live in the Texas hill country at a very high elevation on a ridge. We have experienced high winds snd lots of rain in the last couple of months. No issues with water or air infiltration. A SP rep came out prior to our move in and adjusted any doors or windows. No one requested he do this.

We have not seen any factory defects. We have mostly casements with some awnings. There is a slider in the master shower.

Nothing wrong with Milgard. You asked for an alternative and I brought up the Marvin's, they are all good products, typically sold only by solid stand up dealers. Marvin has top notch quality control and customer service. S/P was a mediocre product from all aspects before they purchased Hurd (bankrupt at least twice) and rebranded their mediocre product the H3. Average at best quality control, anyone with a pulse can sell their products and almost non-existent customer service has been the companies m.o. since I started selling windows and doors.

One more photo.

"What does anyone think of their claim -- "H3® Fusion Technology™ is the perfect integration of extruded aluminum, vinyl and wood. Its patent pending design and construction gives it an industry-leading seal against the elements."

Sounds like a nice song and dance but knowing the company not so much.

@mark1993 Your new build looks wonderful, thanks for the photos.

We met with a local Marvin dealer who was very helpful. Getting a quote for a mix of Essentials and Elevate -- the Elevate line of doors are pine interior, which was not our first choice, but due to sizing we can't go with all fiberglass Essentials for our sliding doors.

Very strange that the Essentials casement arm hardware is BEIGE which obviously clashes with a black int/ext look--the dealer said, yeah, they just haven't changed it (meaning the color). We'll see how the quote adds up.

Any Marvin Essentials and Elevate window/doors warnings/info/feedback welcome. Thanks.

None from me. They are a good product from a solid company. Just need to be sure the install team is up to snuff but that goes for any brand window.

How do you measure a company's install team? Especially if they all say they have a dedicated team to do installs.

Vet them with previous customers, word of mouth, look at their previous work, ask to see a couple jobs in progress. Read the manufacturers installation instructions and understand them. When speaking to the install company have them explain how they would install your windows. If you are buying a better product from a tried and true window installation company that has been around a while, read their online reviews. If new construction and the framers are throwing in the windows, it is completely pot luck.

Thanks to each of you for your input. Really helpful.

Three more questions:

1) The Hardie board installer is doing the window and door install as part of the bid--but says he "didn't have a Marvin dealer" -- we got a quote from a Marvin dealer, and are getting a second one today. Instead of the contractor ordering the windows and doors, we would be the ones ordering -- how does this work as far as flagging factory defects upon delivery and during the actual window/door install midpoint and upon completion? Are we (who have no eye for knowing a defect) assuming that responsibility by ordering directly from the dealer? Or do we ask the contractor to put the order in and pay him, making him the better judge of what needs to go back, etc?

We have yet to sign a contract so trying to understand and set up where responsibility sits.

2) Can an existing anodized aluminum garden window be fitted out with upgraded energy windows in an existing frame, or does that condensation mean the frame itself is compromised and must be totally replaced? Since we can't find a black garden window frame, trying to figure out how to fix this one.

3) Are Milgard Thermally Improved Aluminum | A250 an option for our house based on Title 24?

Hello! Update: WIndows/Doors Choice is now between: (A) Milgard thermally improved A250 aluminum 16 windows - mixed casements and sliders, 3 sliding patio doors 96" X 82" and 1 sliding patio door 72" X 82". Quote for those installed is $44,000. or B) Milgard Ultra C650 fiberglass 16 windows - mixed casements and sliders, same size and number doors. Quote for those installed is $65,800.

My understanding is choice (A) the fiberglass windows and doors will comply with Title 24 for my Bay Area home. But as they are $20K more, with fatter sightlines, we are considering hiring a company to provide us with "as built drawings" (floor plans) for our home, and we then hire a Title 24 consultant. My home will then be evaluated for energy efficiency and given a number. By undertaking other energy saving measures (new furnace, R38 insulation instead of more basic, and other measures I know not of, but hope to learn) we can make up the difference for the U value of 0.38 for Milgard thermally improved aluminum, which just misses the 0.30 of Title 24. Milgard standard aluminum has a U value 0.45.

Has anyone else gone the energy survey route with a good result? Are these facts correct? Are these quotes fair for the Bay Area? This second contractor is also installing Hardie Board as I noted in my OP. (The first contractor failed to get back to us in time, and so here we are months later. Marvin still not an option, as he's not a certified installer and we'd have to buy them outright.) We are trying to move fast to avoid yet another price increase. Thanks.

Should I start a new thread as Sierra Pacific is no longer in the running?

Hi Kaya. We are also in (Northern) Bay Area- looking to replace old single pane aluminum windows to keep out smoke and heat - your post has been super helpful and I’m wondering if you could share how you found a window contractor. That’s been our big sticking point.

Plus deciding on affordable windows. We’ve been pushed towards vinyl vs wood interiors with something else on the exterior but don’t really like the look of vinyl much. We had Marvin integrity at our old house and they were great but probably not in our current budget.

Thanks!

Update: We chose a mix of Marvin Essential and Elevate for our new black windows and sliding patio doors. They are being installed over a few weeks, before new siding. The black interior looks great on both. The fiberglass DOES off gas, and it will take weeks for the smell to dissipate. We had to take delivery before an install three weeks later, and the upside was airing them in the garage not the house. There were more finish issues than I expected, and all the doors had pieces bowing out/not flush right out of the packaging. So factory quality inspection was lacking. We have contacted the window seller, and it seems like Marvin will provide replacement parts, including poor rollers for the doors, where needed. I hope to post later with good news from Marvin. (They say it springs eternal.)

After paying more for the thin inside liner to be black in the windows and doors, it seems rude for the exterior piece of the sliding door where water filters out to be an ugly bronze. Expensive black door but brown/bronze thing hanging off the front. They don't mention this, but there it is and now you know.

@bperot1 The siding installer is installing our windows. American Home Renewal. They say they are installing a lot of Milgard Trinsic vinyl in black. But after comparing the vinyl to the look and feel, and durability of Marvin fiberglass for our windy and wet west-facing sliding doors, we chose the wood interior in black and black exterior fiberglass. The 16 all-fiberglass black casement windows look amazing and we hope to lock out wildfire smoke. I hear you on the budget though.

We've been seeing a reading more than a handful of stories of this off-gassing. I can tell you that having unloaded these products before, one of the worst headaches I have had in recent history was after spending an hour inside of a truck that was full of fiberglass windows.