Sorry, but 25-30 minutes is A LOT more time than it takes to get gas. And the novelty of having to plan for and navigate around charging stations would get old fast - especially when you have to consider traffic, construction, or inclement weather that can require different routes, not to mention proprietary chargers. We're making progress, but we are nowhere near there yet, especially in the "flyover" middle of the country.

The expense of charging stations used by the public will not be in providing the electricity, but in providing the bathrooms.

@Mark Bischak, Architect and snacks...

Snacks, of course!

CA checking in here. (translation for Canadians: "California")

We've been installing "future conduits" for a few code cycles. Adding the circuit, #6 copper, and receptacle likely $650-800 with today's copper prices and labor, depending on length of run from a friendly panel. That's about doubled since a year ago. Installed a pair 8 months ago and guessing all EV receptacles will be completed from here forward unless it looses the competition to another extra a client prefers (upgraded quartz, shoe shelving, etc.) They can race over to Costco for the lunchtime charger rush.

@Flo Mangan I'm happy TX has figured out its electrical supply. ;-/

No, Texas bought into wind power, as you probably know, and that failed big time in February. Many don’t understand the difference between baseload and back up. ERCOT (Electric Reliability Council of Texas) has responsibility for ensuring reliable power supply. They failed terribly on this over the past 10-15 years sadly. So lots of changes going on there.

We're building a house right now. We don't own an electric car, so I don't think it makes any sense to put in a charging station. But it may be the table in the future, so we're running 220v to the garage in case we go electric down the road. I think it'd be silly to do otherwise.

Jeffrey Canadians know CA means California. The original post references Canada directly.

That said the west coast of both the US and Canada often have more in common than us their parts of both countries do with their western province/states.

I regret not putting a 220 line in our garage when we built 3 years ago. Now DH regrets it too since we are absolutely considering electric for our future cars. And we just installed solar backup for our house. Our bills went from $250/month to $50/month and that's only because of the fees the electric company charges. We're not using any of their electricity.

@cpartist, I'm curious to know how much was initial cost of the solar backup? We are considering our options here but our electricity isn't all that expensive. I'm wondering how long the payback period would be.

LOL at the thought of 25-30 minutes being too long to charge. I've used a supercharger probably 3 times in the last two years. I'm sure much more time is spent stopping for gas!

I wonder if there was this much hand wringing by the horse and buggy owners a century ago? Most likely, but that didn’t stop the internal combustion engine from taking over either.

And blaming wind power for the Texas grid failure is ridiculous. Iowa gets 37% of our electricity from wind in far colder temperatures. If any state should have had problems, it would be Iowa. Instead we had a 30 minute outage.

@Casa Bella Designs - you didn't say accumulated time, you indicated that it took 25-30 minutes to get a full charge. That is longer than it currently takes to stop and fill a tank with gas. Even if you do go in to use the restroom and get some snacks too.

@sandk The internal combustion engine took over for a variety of reasons - one of which was Standard Oil, and their desire to essentially force us down the path of gasoline reliance, which made them boatloads of money, another was the US highway system, which was a federally funded project. If we really want to make this happen sooner than later (or at all), we need greedy capitalists coupled with government projects.

Re: charging stations in flyover country: I live in a small town (population 15000) in flyover country, and we have 2 EV charging stations in town, One is at a hotel and one is at Walmart.

Our town is at the intersection of 2 interstates, so that's probably why we've got them.

If the US adopted this, which I highly doubt, we will just buy a new gas car close to the cut off date.

Thoughts on this avoidance technique:

- As the cut-off date approaches, gas cars will certainly become more and more expensive as people who don't wish to adopt new technology try this same idea.

- I'd expect that as gas cars become fewer and fewer, gas stations will become fewer and fewer -- and gas prices will go up.

- What happens if you wreck your last-ever gas engine car one year into ownership?

- Many of us are too young to buy into this idea.

My folks have a Prius and as my sister also has a hybrid vehicle, my folks have two charging (I don't know the terminology) thingies in their garage.

So they have a dual port.

One of the cords reaches out the garage to the driveway so my sister can plug in and charge (so no post).

So nothing special for guests ... just a carefully positioned Charging Station.

One of my concerns (we do not have an electric vehicle) is if we take a long road trip, refilling the gas tank takes what -- 10 minutes, tops? Re-charging a vehicle mid-trip is a concern, both the time that would be required and finding a place to do so.

Apparently recharging time depends upon the voltage ... you can charge slowly during the night /spend less when demand is lower, or you can charge faster with a higher-level Charging Station.

We postulated that restaurants, etc. will put in Charging Stations so you can charge while you eat or shop.

You plug in and where does the power come from to charge your car up? From the local power company. Does that power company have enough power supply to accommodate this additional requirement? Right now, the answer is no. So this is a idea that has not been fully thought out.

Agree that's a concern. I also think it's one of the reasons Canada is giving itself 14 years to prep for this.

I ran appropriate wiring to 2 bays of our 3 car garage in our new build just in case.

That's the kind of thing I'm wondering about.

Technology changes so fast. I still have my portable transistor radio with the leather carrying case! Remember the first computers? Is Pong like the latest game? By 2035, we might be fueling our vehicles with banana peels like Doc in Back to the Future.

Good point.

I believe we can do this.

I think it won't be a choice.

the other two don't have garages.

I know you don't have to have a garage to have a Charging Station:

- My mom has a hybrid, and she has a Charging Station on the side of her house.

- Lots of people live in apartments, and they'll need access to Charging Stations.

- Hotels will need to provide Charging Stations.

Not sure they’re going to do that too readily since the gas industry has a lot of power and leverage .

The gas industry won't die out. People will still have old gas cars, and large vehicles like 18-wheelers and bulldozers will require gas.
Home charging is really slow charging. Overnight will do it. All modern 200A boxes will handle it, no problem. Your car coverts the AC to DC to charge its batteries.

Interesting facts.

All modern 200A boxes will handle it, no problem. Your car coverts the AC to DC to charge its batteries.

When you're travelling use an app like A Better Route Planner. Put in your location and destination plus info about your car and current charge level. It maps your route, lists the charging stops, time to charge and cost.

We are currently keyed into watching our gas tanks /being aware of gas stations. Sounds like a different version of what we do now.

That does it! I am quitting architecture to start a business to charge electric cars while driving down the road, just like those jet fighters get refueled in the air.

That exists! Or, so says my husband who is retired after 30 years as an engineer in the Nuclear Energy industry; I can't actually tell you anything about it except you have to drive in a certain lane -- and I suspect a fee is involved.

I’d be curious how many homes are “modern” though. I’ve never lived in a house with more than 100A service (newest one is my current house which was built in the 60s)

Yes, I live in an old house, which doesn't really have "enough juice" for our lives now.

I suspect we'll see tax breaks for "shoring up our electrical structure" before the deadline.

We charge over night about every 2-3 days. Our future plan when we have 2 EVs is to install solar and a power wall.

So if you only need to "charge up" every 2-3 days, one Charging Station per family would be enough.

What is a power wall?

Sorry, but 25-30 minutes is A LOT more time than it takes to get gas. And the novelty of having to plan for and navigate around charging stations would get old fast

Yes, 25-30 minutes is a lot more than the 5 minutes it takes to pump gas; that's why I suspect restaurants will put them in ... people who are on the road will plan their fuel charge-up to coincide with their meals.

I don't see the planning /navigating to be a big deal ... we already plan /navigate around the gas stations we like best.

We've been installing "future conduits" for a few code cycles. Adding the circuit, #6 copper, and receptacle likely $650-800 with today's copper prices and labor, depending on length of run from a friendly panel. That's about doubled since a year ago.

Are materials really skyrocketing forever ... or is this a temporary jump in prices because of Covid and weird stuff going on in the shipping industry?

I wonder if there was this much hand wringing by the horse and buggy owners a century ago? Most likely, but that didn’t stop the internal combustion engine from taking over either.

Change is always hard.

https://news.yahoo.com/californias-electric-car-revolution-designed-100041571.html

@Flo Mangan

"Texas bought into wind power, as you probably know, and that failed big time in February."

It was actually loss of electricity generation from natural gas that contributed the most to the outages.

Referring to Vin's article....

If that's how they're gonna do things (mine the oceans???), I hope we *don't* convert to electric cars! :-O

There are lots of problems to solve all across the country. One of our biggest problems in Texas is the lack of sufficient “back up generation”. Right now, supply only exceeds demand by a small margin. Too small IMO. Second, sufficient transmission capability across the whole state especially north to south in State. Very challenging times.

Truth is we will need a lot of power from all sources to keep our basic standard of living. Hospitals and care centers need reliable energy, so many needs across industry, commercial and residential needs.

Truth is we will need a lot of power from all sources to keep our basic standard of living.

I really like this idea, of not overextending any *one* source -- Spread those eggs over as many baskets as possible.

Maybe I should get a Clydesdale after acquiring acreage. lol

Once our current cars are done in probably five years or so (we tend to drive ours into the ground), we'll likely be replacing both with EVs. Our roof will need to be replaced in a couple of years, and the plan then is to add solar panels, upgrade our electrical panel, and add two charging stations in the garage. We have a gas line, and as our appliances and mechanicals age out, we're gradually switching them over to electric. Our gas range was replaced by induction when it bit the dust last year.

But I would also bet decent money that as (if?) autonomous cars become the norm, many people will move over to a car share service so you won't even need to own a car. I would love to not have to store and maintain two vehicles, and I think that change could present a lot of interesting re-imagining of architecture and neighborhoods.

I was thinking the same thing as Flo and Devoted Dame "Truth is we will need a lot of power from all sources to keep our basic standard of living."

It appears that some want everything to be electric. I find that dangerous. Who ever controls the power grid controls all aspects of our lives, transportation, communication, etc . Even the water pumped to our homes could be cut off. It could be hackers or an enemy country or even our own government. Look at the mess when the east coast pipe line shut down and the mess when the power grid failed in Texas. "Spread those eggs over as many baskets as possible" Let the people have the choice of what energy source or multi energy sources they prefer to use . Why the urgent need to force it on us? Fossil fuel engines were not forced on the pubic. They didn't outlaw horse or animal power and make everyone use fossil fuel engines. There are still people that use animals for transportation today. All energy sources have pros and cons.

@Mrs Pete

A power wall is a solar powered battery back up system, basically. It can power the whole house if there's an outage or something. The drawback is the price, I think around 10k....but over the long run between solar panels and power wall, we will be saving so much in our utilities. Our electricity is $400-500 a month, so I see it all as a worthwhile investment especially with rebates.

Are you saying your reduced bill is 4-500 or current?

Oh no, that's our current bill! I expect it will go down significantly.

Phew! Our bill is less than that right now for a 4400 square foot house with a suite. Was worried you thought that was savings

Late in the game here but we have a 2 car garage and we had two 240V receptacles put in. We have 2 Teslas. It isn't a big deal either way but of course I had in done during the build.

Just drove 350 miles to the mountains. 10 minute supercharge was what I needed to arrive with 100 left in the tank. Plugged in at 120V while at a rental house. Will need a 10 min stop on the way home but I could probably make it - downhill and all.... So for the 700 mile trip, it was 10 minutes of on the road charging.

There are a lot of posts here that are misinformed. The grid will need a few upgrades here and there and capacity isn't much of an issue either. And nearly zero oil is used to generate electricity in the US (sometimes on islands and when hospital backup generators are tested which can be timed to peak demand). Renewables will gradually dominate the grid - certainly in the lifespan of a new car - let alone a new house.

Remember when you buy a gas car, you are expecting/hoping that gas will be cheaply available for about 18 years. You may not keep the car that long but the writing will on the wall when you go to sell....

We built in 2018 and though we don’t have an electric vehicle, had it wired for a charging station.

I am in Canada. On Vancouver island. We have 1 electric car and installed the charger in our garage. Our home ( spec house) came with solar on the roof. If we buy again we would install 2 car chargers and do the solar roof. Granted, our weather is not harsh here the majority of the time. We did have a heat wave recently. Our portion of the electric bill runs around 500 Canadian per year with solar covering the rest. Our last electric bill was $28. Worth it to us

The best part for me is not having to stop at gas stations anymore LOL - Yes! This is exactly the reason we bought second plug-in car much earlier than planned.

The reason that both of our cars are plug-in is that we live in the middle of nowhere so needed to accommodate for non-existing infrastructure.

I am really hoping next ones will be fully electric. Even if we get infrastructure with existing technology - 300 mile range at a fast charge station in 20 mins - to be as common as gas stations i'll be buying EV without hesitation.

For right now we are really happy with our plug-ins even though we still do not have level 2 charges installed ( business, laziness, COVID). Both fully recharge plugged into regular 100v outlet in about 8 hours. For everyday activities we rarely run out of charge. On long trips we charge if we can find charger and need time for bathroom, coffee. Otherwise we pump gas and go. I'd say 90% of our driving is electric. I can recommend both cars highly ( Volt and Rav4) .

I cannot envision the line of cars waiting to plug in on road trips if the bulk of vehicles go electric. The wait to charge will be more like 2 hours vs 20 mins.

Nothing happens overnight. By the time everyone has an electric car infrastructure will be better.

I regret not putting a 220 line in our garage when we built 3 years ago.

Everything can't be on your radar.

I think this is a safe assumption: It's always cheaper to install while you're building rather than to add on later.

I'm curious to know how much was initial cost of the solar backup? We are considering our options here but our electricity isn't all that expensive. I'm wondering how long the payback period would be.

I'd also like to hear more about this ... partially for the cost of the bill, partially to be more self-sufficient.

Truth is we will need a lot of power from all sources to keep our basic standard of living.

Yes, our appetite for electricity keeps growing.

But I would also bet decent money that as (if?) autonomous cars become the norm, many people will move over to a car share service so you won't even need to own a car. I would love to not have to store and maintain two vehicles, and I think that change could present a lot of interesting re-imagining of architecture and neighborhoods.

We only had one car for the first three years of our marriage (and we lived way out in the country -- 45 minutes from work, most shopping, all restaurants). It was hard occasionally, but it allowed us to pay down our house and start our savings -- it was a good choice.

Especially with more ride services available /more people working from home, many of us could downsize to one car per family today.

I'd use public transportation if it were available to me.

Who ever controls the power grid controls all aspects of our lives, transportation, communication, etc . Even the water pumped to our homes could be cut off.

Agree -- and, yes, we just lived through an example of how this can bite us in the butt.

"Spread those eggs over as many baskets as possible"

Makes sense, though we as individuals don't have unlimited ways to make this happen. One thing we can do is build reasonably sized houses -- this board tends to pretend that 3000-4000 square foot houses are "average sized". They aren't, and giant houses eat up a lot more resources than modestly sized spaces.

Let the people have the choice of what energy source or multi energy sources they prefer to use . Why the urgent need to force it on us?

More of us exist today, we are running out of resources, and we are damaging the planet. If we do nothing, we (and future generations) will suffer long-term.

A power wall is a solar powered battery back up system, basically. It can power the whole house if there's an outage or something. The drawback is the price, I think around 10k....but over the long run between solar panels and power wall, we will be saving so much in our utilities. Our electricity is $400-500 a month, so I see it all as a worthwhile investment especially with rebates.

Interesting. Thanks.

Remember when you buy a gas car, you are expecting/hoping that gas will be cheaply available for about 18 years.

That's a good point. We've had gas stations all our lives, so we don't tend to stop to think about availability of gas when we're buying a car.

Nothing happens overnight. By the time everyone has an electric car infrastructure will be better.

Yes, that's why Canada is wisely giving themselves more than a decade to prepare. Our R&D guys can do a great deal in that time.

Hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles were and are the safer more environmentally protective and economic way to go. If only they had a genius huckster like Elon!

We're putting in a hydro (electric) line for a charger in our new build, only because high-end buyers love to show-off their "social responsibility" via six-figure plug-ins. (Maybe moreso with a coming 10% "luxury" tax on cars and light trucks with pricetags exceeding C$100K.)

Everything can't be on your radar.

I think this is a safe assumption: It's always cheaper to install while you're building rather than to add on later.

Except it was on my radar but I couldn't convince DH.

shead, I messaged you.

My county mandates that new houses have 240V service in the garage. I imagine that contractors will probably just install 30amps. The cheapest way to go is usually to install a standard NEMA outlet in the garage like a 14-50. Then you can use adapters to plug in to each car.

My electrical installation was $700 for a 100' run, 60 amp breaker. The electrician also installed the wall unit. My Model 3 charges at over 13 kw (44 miles per hour) using a tesla wall unit.

My neighbors are buying EV's and learning that charging is a disorganized wild west. There are so many standards for the physical plug on each car - J1772, tesla, chademo, CCS type 1, etc. Each car charges at different rates 7 - 13kw, depending on the amperage of the outlet.

We just started building and have planned for 2 charging stations in our 3-car garage. We don't currently drive electric, but do have a hybrid and will most likely replace my current gas mini-van with an electric vehicle in a few years.

There is a Tesla charging station in my local Target's parking lot (adjacent to the interstate). As I drove by today, about 3pm on a Friday afternoon, all 8 of the slots were in use and there were an additional 3 Teslas waiting in line to charge. Of course, there were more cars than that in line at the Costco gas station around the corner from the Target.

"Of course, there were more cars than that in line at the Costco gas station around the corner from the Target."

At least the cars at Costco won't be waiting as long as the EVs to fill up once they actually get to the pump ;) I'd be pissed if I were having to wait for someone to checkout of Target and come back to their car before I can have my turn to charge :/

I cannot see how this is even remotely feasible for the near future here in the US. Not everyone lives in a nice suburban home with a garage. There are so many congested cities with on the street parking and zero ability to recharge. And many in town homes don’t even have driveways let alone garages. They all park on the street. Just drive through Queens or the Bronx or Brooklyn NY or the immediate outskirts of Manhattan. Explain how this will work. This is no small matter. We’re talking hundreds and hundreds of thousands of vehicles (maybe millions…I dont know ….there were 276 million vehicles registered in 2019) that wouldn’t have access to any possibility of recharging their cars overnight. If phasing out gas vehicles is even a thought, there are myriad of huge obstacles that need to be overcome before it becomes law. I mean seriously, we can’t even fix our roads and highways and we’re going to phase out gas vehicles making electric cars a reality for every driving citizen in the US?? A LOT needs to take place before electric cars become law.

There MIGHT be a detachment from reality in the current regime.

(hope the is not too political of a statement)

I think you will see some cities and then states/provinces embrace it faster than others and in time infrastructure will develop. Setting targets or goals is good forward planning and shoes thought toward climate change etc. In reality nothing will happen id goals aren’t met other than some upset. People need not fear change. It’s coming whether you like it or not, how quickly you embrace it is up to you, but like all major changes it will happen, in time.

Let’s also remember that electric cars are powered largely by fossil fuels, you are merely not burning them directly. Point source pollution is reduced by electric cars, but not necessarily overall emissions.

You know, every street in an urban area already has electricity. Putting a charger in for street parking is pretty easy. My city has some. Go to Amsterdam, every street has some charging. I have some friends who park on the street in front of their house (no driveway, small urban lot) and they literally run the cord over the sidewalk. Not ideal in any way (they do have one of those commercial rubber ramps to protect it and prevent tripping), but it works.

Electricity is everywhere. Chargers are incredibly simple devices - we all have a version for the computer we are posting from (or the phone). In volume production, they are stupid cheap.

Every reasonable study has shown overall emissions are down compared to gas cars. Even taking in count emissions from production.

Fossil fuels represent 60% of electricity production in the US - it that "largely"? I suppose a matter of debate. Either way, the trend is under 50% in less than 5 years. And in the 18 year life expectancy of a car, fossil fuels will probably be 10% of electricity production.

Except it was on my radar but I couldn't convince DH.

Can't win them all. Being married to to a retired energy engineer, this is the kind of thing my DH loves. You don't want to know how many remotes we own, and -- yes -- he's a Star Trek. It's not just a stereotype.

My neighbors are buying EV's and learning that charging is a disorganized wild west.

I believe that. Again, that's why Canada is allowing itself 14 years "to get there".

I cannot see how this is even remotely feasible for the near future here in the US. Not everyone lives in a nice suburban home with a garage.

Don't you think Canadians live in cities and apartments too?

I'd assume city dwellers own fewer cars /rely more upon public transportation.

You don't have to have a garage to have a charger. My mom has a hybrid, and she has a charger on the side of her no-garage house.

A LOT needs to take place before electric cars become law.

Agree, but we have no control over whether it becomes law ... the discussion is how to prepare your own house: if, when, what, how? Those are the questions.

My point is that in 20 years, the US will not even be close to the possibilty of making this law. Way too many obstacles. We can all check back here then :)

Solutions for charging are being developed all around the world. Some areas do not have to use fossil fuel for generation. Norway is 90+% using hydro. The UK has wind power now at times with other renewables meeting all the demand. As we move forward less and less fossil fuels will be used every day.

Hmmmmm…a quick search on the web puts the US at over 20% nuclear energy for electricity…hydro is not zero impact to the environment…wind turbines have environmental costs associated with construction and disposal…etc, etc….there is no easy answer. And yes, we do have control over lawmaking, we thankfully have free and fair elections.