No idea your ceiling height. I dislike the light quality from those wafer lights, I don’t find that enough of the light goes down, I much prefer a traditional can with a screw in bulb. Almost always 4”, directly over the edge of the counter roughly 4’ on center.

Are you only having can lights?

Can you post a floor plan showing the cabinets? The best kitchen lighting plan is cabinet and task based, not a symmetrical grid placement. You figure out each location where you need a light, and then you count up the total.

I have similar size kitchen, I had installed 4 recessed in size 4” directly over the edge of the counters. Sorry I did that. I should have put in 3" can lights.

I saved the following link when considering recessed lighting for our livingroom. A little math is involved Hope it helps

https://www.google.com/search?q=beam+spread&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari#imgrc=4CexnRWNfBA5JM

@btydrvn @mcarroll16 @HALLETT & Co.

This is the kitchen layout (16x12) with 8' ceilings. Currently I'm thinking 6 4" wafer lights and then 1 4" over the sink. Just having a hard time with choosing 6" with a 4" over sink or all 4" but I am open to all ideas. I plan to purchase extras should any have issues they could be easily replaced. No other lights in the kitchen except a LED light strip under cabinets. My husband is DIY ing it so thought these options would be much easier on him to install.

So I guess my real question is 6 4" wafer lights going to be good enough or is bigger better with the 6". Then I worry the 6" will look too big in the amount of ceiling space. The wafer lights will be the 5 color option ones and dimmable.

(Ensenior 12 Pack 4 Inch Ultra-Thin LED Recessed Light with Junction Box, 2700K/3000K/3500K/4000K/5000K Selectable, 9W 75W Eqv, Dimmable, 750LM High Brightness - ETL and Energy Star Certified)

IMO 6" pots are totally dated and I use 4" LEDs 4000K bulbs and you can replace any bulb with LEDs so get the best price for the cans and do whatever bulb color you like I would not get anything where you can change the color since IMO 4000K is always the best for kitchens I do think you need to share what other lighting is going in there since IMO you need more than 4 no matter what size the cans.

@Patricia Colwell Consulting - There will be no other lighting as there is no island. I will have LED strip lighting under cabinet and top lights inside one glass cabinet but no other area lighting. So I was thinking six 4" with an additional one over the sink. Do you think seven 4" in that space is enough?

Not sure why you are hung up on # of cans. As mcarroll said, you place them for best task lighting, then whatever # you end up with so be it. From looking at the perspective drawing, good placement for your particular kitchen cannot be done without a floor plan.

Don't pick your lights on what is easiest for your husband to install, as I suspect you aren't doing that with your refrigerator selection after spending tens and tens of thousand$ on cabinets, tile, and fixtures. in fact, wafers could even be harder for some because you have no ceiling yet to install them. Electrical is electrical, drywall is drywall, if he knows how to do those then it doesn't matter what fixture or how many. Pick lighting you want that works with your kitchen, style, and level of house.

Here's a very rough stab at a lighting plan. I'm not a pro! Don't follow this plan! This is just to give you a rough idea of what questions to ask, and why you should post a floorplan so the pros here can help you. My best guess is you should have the following cans, all centered over the countertop edge: can centered over the countertop that has the glass cabinets above; can centered in front of the large window; can centered in front of the wall cabinets over the DW; can for the area right of the sink (not sure if this should be 1 or 2 cans), can over the cabinets between range and doorway. In addition, a can over the sink as you plan, a can in front of the fridge, 12" out from the door. Or maybe one can in front of fridge, one can in front of pantry. Maybe one or two cans over the walkway area?

Post a floorplan with dimensions, and someone with real knowledge is likely to help you.

Here is the layout if anyone can help with placement.

I know that I am in the minority but I prefer the 6" disc lights over the 4". My theory is that electricians prefer the 4" because 4" hole saws are cheaper and take up less space in the tool truck. If/ when you need to switch out discs, it is easier to get you arm into a 6" hole to fetch the J-Box. And I like them to look like actual ceiling lights and not like flashlight lenses.

What will go in the empty wall space next to ref, and what are the 4 doorways from (1 split)? Do you have a desire for a pendant over the sink, and further enhance the difference between the 2 windows/counter functions?

@3onthetree - the kitchen table goes in that empty space. The four doorways are three pass throughs, one from dining room, one from front hall and one from the recroom. The fourth is the basement door. I was contemplating a small sconce or pendant over the sink.

I always like pendants over sinks and tables …with dimmers they offer soft ambiance lighting at night..

I got some terrific advice for my kitchen lighting plan from fellow Houzzers here:
https://www.houzz.com/discussions/5796867/critique-my-kitchen-lighting-plan-please

I highly suggest reading it! I learned a lot and am very thankful for the advice I received from the kind people who took the time to respond!

I believe the lights that you first mentioned are the ones that I used. They are the thin discs with 5 color selections with a driver mounted separately. I like them for the following reasons:

1. They are very unobtrusive looking when they are off. They are not our “main” lighting for the room so they are not always used.
2. You can cut the holes in the ceiling after the cabinets are installed and they are more forgiving in placement than the regular cans with separate bulbs. My lights are aligned with the cabinet doors so this is important.
3. If you have a joist right where you want to place a light, this 1/2” thick light fits right under the joist so you don’t have to compromise on the location of the light. Again, my lights are aligned with the cabinet doors so this is important.
4. They are color selectable but as others have mentioned, you can change light bulbs just as easily, although at a higher cost.
   I also plan on purchasing some extras in the near future in case they get discontinued in the future. Surprisingly, with all the recent inflation, these have come way down in price since I first purchased them!

I chose to put the same light over my sink but on a separate switch from the other 9 since I frequently leave this light on when the others are off. We also have a 3-bulb pendant light above our table and 2 semi-flush 2- bulb lights in the middle of the work space. The semi-flush lights are “general lighting” and throw light in all directions, including the ceiling, where it then reflects back. I strongly suggest adding some general lighting such as this as the recessed lights are “task lighting” which serves a different purpose. The task lighting can be turned off when not in use and the general lighting is the main lighting for the space. The general lighting casts a more attractive light around the room as well as onto people’s faces. We also have under cabinet task lighting (also controlled with a separate dimmer switch.) Hope this helps.

This is probably the layout I would do, with 4" lumenaires around 750 lumens each and a baffle. A couple tradeoff decisions, which you always have in a kitchen. Using hold points of the counter/cabinet over DW, the sink, lighting the Pantry/ref, and table. That put a light over the stove, which I usually don't do, but you have a MW hood and the closeness of the Pantry and sink was a tradeoff. Also the large window is unopportunized and the symmetry of the glass cabinet wall doesn't relate to ceiling lighting, but consistency was the tradeoff.

Regarding 3onthetree’s plan, I would only use recessed lights above the counters. For the light above the table as well as the one in the doorway, I would use semi-flush mount lights which give off light in all directions as well as bounce light off of the ceiling which will make the room look brighter. For the light by the pantry, a wall wash recessed light might be good because it directs light into the pantry instead of just onto the floor. Barring that, I would suggest another semi-flush mount light in that vicinity. I think recessed lights are best used for task lighting.

Ceiling mount fixtures (flush or semi-flush) do not provide a good solution to most of today's modern kitchens. Today's cabinets, counters, and appliances are "jewels" and displayed as such; and when in a kitchen, you are performing counter tasks. If not, you would have pendants or ceiling mount fixtures for tables or seating. So very few times would you just need a basic general ambient light from a ceiling mount fixture (which reflecting off the ceiling just raises the ambient level) like if you were sitting in another room looking into the kitchen - but you wouldn't be showcasing your "jewels" like most would want to anyway. So although recessed lights do not reflect off the ceiling, they do provide ambient light for the entire space while giving specific task lighting.

The ceiling plane also has a level of aesthetic design to it, so ceiling mount fixtures should not be interspersed willy-nilly with recessed fixtures. Thought should be put into where ceiling mounts are if they are chosen to be utilized.

@A I have looked at your thread for your kitchen from 2 years ago. There is some really poor advice given by non-pros, and I hope you did not follow it.

3onthetree, I agree that a lot of people prefer a plain ceiling to highlight the “jewels.” For my kitchen, I personally felt like the light fixtures were jewels as well. But I don’t personally care for the ultra modern look and I can see how if somebody was going for that look, the fixtures would be a distraction and take away from the overall aesthetic. Even though my fixtures are not overly fancy, they are not invisible. As far as my plan, I took a lot of the advice, but not all of it. I would be very interested to hear what you would do different and what advice that I received that you would agree/disagree with. I did try to give more weight to the people who seemed to be professionals and the starting point of my lighting plan was an article written by a professional.

@3onthetree - Thanks so much for the drawing! So your saying put them all over the counters like shown and nothing at all in the middle of the ceiling? I have decided I don't really want anything hanging but just wondering if there will be a big empty spot in the middle and if that is normal to have?

Many kitchens have big empty spots in the middle, but no one or anything is placed there nor do you ever stand there. It will not be unlit, the other fixtures will throw over the floor. And you have a table of some size sticking in there too.

I strongly object to the idea of using a single recessed light to illuminate a dining table. Recessed lights are used for task lighting and although eating can be considered a “task,” we also do other things at the table such as talking to one another. If you think you want a recessed light over your kitchen table then I suggest that you find another recessed light someplace (even if in somebody else’s house,) and put a few kitchen chairs or a card table/chairs under it and sit down with a few people to see how everybody’s faces look. I think you will find that it’s very unflattering, especially when you turn up the dimmer. I personally have never seen a dining room where recessed lights are used exclusively, but I’m sure that somebody someplace has made that unfortunate decision because god forbid there is a light fixture visible to take away from the other design elements in the space. BUT, form follows function, not the other way around! If you don’t want something like a pendant light hanging down, then you can choose either a semi-flush mount fixture or a flush mount fixture. I like the semi-flush mount because it bounces light off the ceilings. Your ceilings are 8’ high so I think you could benefit from extra light on the ceiling, which you will not get from recessed lights since they point down. The one pictured is from Home Depot. I have similar looking lights but they have a glass shade and came with a removable metal cage, which I removed so I only have an unobtrusive frosted glass shade, which I think blends in with the white ceiling and doesn’t take away from the other elements of the room.

I would agree, as would most everybody, with having a hanging light over a dining table. However, in this kitchen there is a Dining Room adjacent and the Kitchen doesn't really have a truly defined space for a breakfast area, it is sort of a "left over" space. This table will have to be small to fit in the <5' between the door and refrigerator, and I would expect that after some time, it will be considered in the way and removed or used as drop storage up against the wall. So having a hanging fixture there would probably be worse than the flexibility of continuing the recessed lights. But the exact table/space designation and how that interacts with the circulation would need to be clarified.

@3onthetree @A

So here are a few pictures of the kitchen. Thank you guys both for your suggestions and ideas. It is a mess as we have started demo on one end already. The table space in the kitchen is technically supposed to be under the window, however, our family of 5 didn't fit there to get in and out from the table easy. We moved it to its current location so that no one was "trapped" in their seat. The dining room is currently being used as an office but that wont be forever. The kitchen table is my Grandmom's vintage 1940-50's table that I am restoring. I love it even if it won't really fit into the new kitchen style wise. The table I had there previously was the same length but much wider. This one fits better for sure and I expect I will always have a table in that location. We do plan to recess the fridge into the wall.

Gluing down the table laminate that separated? You can buy some bar trigger quick clamps from a big box store for reasonable $ (like a set of 4), then clamp a long piece of wood down over the laminate. You'll get much better adhesion from a stronger squeeze than the office clips can impart on it.

@3onthetree - The top is still intact and I am regluing the side piece on just one half the table. Not sure if what I did worked yet. Thanks for the suggestion though. I imagine the top piece will come loose at some point.

Since you plan to always have a table in the space, I would put a pendant light over the table. With a vintage table in a new kitchen, there is an opportunity to pull the two styles together with a light fixture that is inspired by the mid-century aesthetic but is new so it doesn’t look dated. A light with a drum shade came to mind so I searched the Home Depot website for ‘drum pendant light’ and I think there were over 1,000 results but I put a few pics below. The photos that you posted are very helpful because I can see that the floor plan is staying mostly the same except that you are adding additional cabinets to the corner where the table used to be located. I would suggest adding blue painters tape to the floor to mark out the new cabinets. And maybe fill in the space with some boxes so that you can visualize the floor space (and air above it) that will be remaining for the table. Then try the table in different locations over several days, making sure that it’s still comfortable when everybody is seated and getting up/down from the table, etc, and that you can comfortable open the fridge, etc. After you know exactly where you want the table, you will know where the light should be located. You can even try one of the plug-in type pendant lights over the table to see how you feel about having a light there (see last pic also from Home Depot.). If you ever decide to eliminate the table, you can always change this pendant light to a recessed light since the wiring will be there. The only negative is that it will be on a separate switch, assuming that’s the plan. You could also consider a smaller matching pendant over the kitchen sink to further coordinate the vintage table with the new kitchen. Regarding the table repair, that looks like Formica, which is generally glued using contact cement. A coat is rolled onto each surface and then after it has dried to tacky (not stringy) the two surfaces are carefully pressed together, and then rolled with a j-roller (a rolling pin might make a good substitute in a pinch.). There is no need for clamps afterwards because the bond is extremely strong. Usually when new countertops are fabricated, the Formica is cut big and after it is adhered to the surface, it is trimmed with a router. It is tricky to re-glue something that is already cut to size but it can be done. I haven’t checked, but I have no doubt that there are YouTube videos showing how it’s done. You can probably look up videos for new countertop fabrication as well as videos showing repairs.

Not a fan of a pendant or semi flush over that table. It's a very casual, improvised placement. Sometimes we do that, because it fits a need we have! But putting a distinct fixture there is going to highlight it in an uncomfortable way. Assuming there is a dining table nearby, I don't think the kitchen table light needs to be flattering (although I've never seen recessed lights really wrecking anyone's appearance). The kitchen table is likely a work area--prepping veggies, doing homework with kids, reading the paper with morning coffee. It just needs good task lighting.

mcarroll16, I see what you’re saying about it not necessarily looking like a truly dedicated dining area, but there is not another table nearby because the dining room is currently being used as an office. KW said that they do use it to eat, otherwise they wouldn’t have had to move it from its intended location under the double windows which is only about 6’ wide (give or take) because in that location, with 5 people all using the table at the same time, some people couldn’t easily get up and down from the table and felt trapped. Also, the dining room is separated from the kitchen by a solid wall. And assuming that some of these 5 family members are children, I can see why they would use the kitchen table for meals even if they had a dining room table. KW also said that they always plan to have some sort of table there, so what is the harm in putting proper lighting above said table? Not only will it be functional, but it will help the location to look more like a proper dining area instead of an afterthought. As I said, it can always be converted to a recessed light in the future since the wiring will already be there. I’m all for planning for the future, but I also think they have to plan for how they will be using the kitchen right now and in the near future. P.S. If the dining room is behind the wall where the new cabinets are being added, as opposed to behind the range, then careful planning of the cabinets on that wall can allow for it to be opened up in the future. For instance, the cabinets can be planned so they can be relocated next to the refrigerator. Or, they can be planned to be used as a peninsula in the future. A wider doorway from the kitchen to the dining room would be helpful, so maybe some of the cabinets could be relocated while the remaining can become a small peninsula. This won’t work if the dining room is behind the range.

@A

The dining room is behind the range. The room behind the new cabinets is a small family room which is two steps lower than the kitchen. We do the best with the space we've got. :) I always thought when all the kids moved out, I'd shrink my old table back into the small circle it started out as and put it back under the window but when we decided to do the kitchen I went for more storage and counter space instead.

KW, interesting. Your current floor plan (at least kitchen/dining room/family room/foyer/basement stairs) is basically a mirror image of my new kitchen, except that my kitchen is slightly bigger at 19x12 so I was able to keep the table along the outside wall. My family room is one step down from the kitchen and we cut the wall in half there. It was a load bearing wall so no small undertaking, but well worth it. I also slightly enlarged the doorway so it’s easier for 2 people to pass each other in the doorway. You could consider that too in the future, if you plan the wall cabinets so they can be eliminated on that wall without the remaining wall cabinets looking awkward, and plan the base cabinets for a wider doorway. I could have easily completely removed the wall to the dining room because it is not load bearing, but I needed someplace to put the range after I cut the other wall in half, plus, I like the idea of not looking at a mess when in the formal dining room. However, if you plan ahead and relocate the range now, it may be worth it to open the wall to the dining room in the future when it’s no longer being used as an office. How big is your dining room? Mine is only about 11x12 which is pretty small and could have easily been incorporated into the kitchen, but then I thought the kitchen would have been too big at 30x12, plus I would no longer have a formal dining room, just one big kitchen. Also, unrelated, how do you mention somebody in a reply so that their name is highlighted? I haven’t figured that out and it’s nice to acknowledge somebody by name who has made a contribution to the discussion. Thanks

@A Not sure if your on the phone app but on the computer just type an @ and then the list of the people who have commented will pop up and just highlight the person. If you don't see it right away type the first letter of the name.

My dining room is 12x12 so also pretty small and there are sliders on the wall to the backyard so unless that was closed in wouldn't be much wall space to gain. There is only the depth of the wall and maybe two feet into the dining room then the doors start. The quote to put build a wall and put a large window in there was over $7500 so just not worth it for us at this point. The cost of just what we are doing already is pretty absurd considering we are doing all the work except the floors. When I got the quote for the cabinets I was glad my kitchen wasn't any larger. LOL.

@KW, okay thanks! I’m on the phone app and it didn’t work. I’ve noticed that the website works best on a computer but it’s more convenient to upload pics from the phone. I think you are misunderstanding me. What I was suggesting is that maybe in the future, if you were willing to give up your formal dining room, you could have your kitchen table relocated to the space that is currently your dining room/home office. I wasn’t suggesting having any cabinets in there. Only that you can plan your current cabinet placement so that sometime in the future, the wall between the kitchen and dining room can be either completely removed or cut in half (in which case you could keep your base cabinets on that wall and just eliminate the wall cabinets above.) A table requires no wall space and I think it would be nice to have the sliding glass doors to the backyard from the kitchen table, for bringing in food from the grill, etc. I actually added sliding glass doors to my kitchen right by the kitchen table because, just like you, we had no door in the kitchen previously. I think it’s a great improvement. If the wall is not load bearing and there is no plumbing or major electrical located within, and you’re doing the work yourselves, it would not be very expensive, but I was only suggesting that you plan for this future improvement with your cabinet and range placement now, not that you actually undertake it now since you are currently using the office. And as far as not needing a big table in the future once the kids are grown, you may be surprised when they come back to visit with spouses and kids!