I don't have a answer, but this video might give you some ideas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJNCDVAaPzg

Thousands of retrofits have been done like that and #1 complaint is wider temperature swing than in-slab. Second most common complaint is added cost for electric/gas to overcome swings. The Mother Earth crowd uses wood stoves for which they harvest their own wood for supplemental heat.

I could link you to 6 months worth reading on the subject but I assume you could have found that on your own.

@PPF. Thank you for your quick response, I was actually in the middle of watching that video before posting here. I don't know if it's because the local plumbers I've spoken to haven't heard of this system/company but I'm really being discouraged from going this route and am being steered towards a forced air system, mini-splits with portable electric heaters for back-up, and/or if I insist on in-floor, a geo-thermal system with concrete over-pour. I really have my heart set on in-floor heat for a number of reasons (cold feet due to poor circulation being at the top of the list) I don't have a local Arctic Heat Pump rep here so haven't heard any reviews on the company or the system's performance. I'm really hoping to get good feedback/reviews as I'm nervous to commit and don't want any regrets!

The reason I don't want concrete is I live with someone who falls often and even though I will have an engineered hardwood over the subfloor, I feel the concrete is just too hard with no give (maybe this is not right?) Besides, when I asked my builder about a concrete over pour he said that that decision should have been made in the design stage, before the floor trusses etc were built.

If I have aluminum plating completely covering the tubing on the staple up would that be enough for even heat distribution? Will there be enough heat come thru the flooring?

I don't want to sound stupid but have been trying to make sense of a considerable number of articles etc and it's just way above my comprehension

If the heat does eventually pass thru do you mean that it just takes longer to heat up? If so, would the heat continue to radiate & be comfortable if I just left it alone? Is there any scenario where staple up is acceptable (ie under tile) or is it just not practical at all.

*The quote from Arctic Heat Pumps (air to water infloor) and the quote I rec'd from the company installing the forced air system were very similar...around $30K, with Arctic coming in under.

Well, that's disappointing. I've been watching all these Youtube videos of staple-up installation and figured that it must be ok. Thanks for your help everybody!

While you consider options let me throw this out. There are comercial carpets (maybe residential also) that can be scrubbed twice a week and look new after having all kinds of stuff spilled on them. When I say scrubbed I mean commercial floor buffer with course brush and soap dispenser. The stuff is expensive but more comfy on feet than hard surfces,plus soften falls better than hardwood.

Oh, ok, so still do the staple up but carpet instead of wood will work?

Since this is new construction and you’re requesting information on in-floor hydronic radiant heating, I would suggest above joist subfloor aluminum panels as they are more efficient than staple-up that might be used in a retrofit. You can install whatever flooring you choose on top of it.

Keep in mind that the lower the supply water temperature you design for, the more efficient the system can be and the lower your energy costs will be going forward. Lower supply temperatures also usually mean closer on centre spacing of the in-floor tubing.

As you mentioned that you live in the Maritimes (Atlantic Canada), your first call should be to Maritime Geothermal that is a ‘local’ company that manufactures Geothermal and air source air-to-water heat pumps. They have a long and proven track record. Speak to them, they can send you in the right direction to design and install what you’re asking about.

There are also federal and provincial grants and subsidies that might be available.

Be warned that these systems cost a lot more to install. They can provide the greatest comfort, greatest efficiency and easiest most effective zoning - with air-conditioning and Domestic Hot Water.

Only you can decide what you want and how much you want to spend.

Below are links that might provide more information than you might ever want. These system are designed for all climates - especially yours !

EcoWarm radiant Board

Nordic Water-To-Water Heat Pumps (Heating/Cooling/DHW

Energy Distribution

Nordic Air-To-Water Brochure

Nordic Air-To-Water Full Details for builder, installer, designer, home owner

IMPO

SR

Concrete will be your most efficient transfer component. But no one says you can't put something softer on top of it. I'm thinking there should be choices engineered to go on top of radiant concrete floors.

Carpet Padding

Most experts agree that the slab foam rubber pad is the best choice when it comes to carpet pads. The 3/8” 90 oz. slab foam rubber pad is sold for about $4 per yard where the less costly, lower quality 3/8” 6 lb. re-bond pad can be purchased for approx. $3 per yard. Regardless of cost, slab foam rubber is more popular because most customers who have opted for the luxury of hydronic heating are willing to pay a little more for the carpet pad.

Slab foam rubber pads may be more difficult to find than the more common re-bond pads but are well worth the extra effort. An enthusiast at the Radiant Panel Association (RPA) message board kindly provided these links to related websites; If you contact the two US manufacturers of slab foam rubber pads they will direct you to local distributors:
Sponge Cushion, Inc.
FXI - Foam Manufacturer

Carpet And Heated Floor

The Carpet and Rug institute commissioned a study on Carpet and Heated Floors. Although the study dealt solely with hydronic heating, the findings are also applicable to Electric Radiant Floor Heating.

Hydronic radiant floor manufacturers recommend that total R-value not exceed 4.0. This limitation includes the carpet pad that often reduces the heating efficacy of Hydronic systems.

An industry sponsored carpet thermal study by the Georgia Institute of Technology found that R value was related more to the actual thickness of the carpet than to the carpet fiber itself. An estimated R-value for carpet was calculated to be 2.6 times the total thickness (inches) of the carpet.

Padded carpeting would not be a good choice with in-floor hydronic radiant. A better idea if hydronic distribution is chosen would be low water temperature panel radiators.

IMPO

SR

For what it's worth,when I suggested carpet I meant carpet alone and forget in floor heat. The carpet isn't warm as in floor heat but it's light years better than sitting bare feet on unheated hard surfaces. The added benefit is better footing and softer landing for a fall prone occupant.

It is good to note that a new house (hopefully) will feel warm without some of the temperature disparities that you might be used to in an older house. The other thing is that in floor radiant heat in a tight house is not particularly warm to the touch. In a less than tight house, the floor gets warmer as it tries to keep up with heat loss. But when there is not that much loss, the floor doesn't get particularly warm.

Obviously, I don't live in your feet. But I would think you would wear socks most of the time. A cold floor is not appreciated by anyone. That is primarily a house design/insulation issue. I have no tile in my house for a reason (not to mention the hardness). Ok - I do have tile on the shower floor but the hot water fixes that really fast.

It would be great if you could stay in 2 houses for a night. One built nice and tight with forced air and then one with the same build qualities with in floor heat. Maybe you have. But I suspect most people have stayed or lived in poorly insulated structures and that drives a lot of these decisions.

@fsq4cw Thank you, I did check Nordic and my local installer but I think geothermal is looking like it will be out of my price range...especially if I have to add warm boards etc for radiant heat. His quote was for a concrete over-pour so I'll check back with him with a change to forced air but I'm thinking that will be higher still. Otherwise, if all else fails, I will be going with Nordic forced air.

@dan1888 Thank you. I guess I blew it...if I'd known that I couldn't do the staple up for infloor heat I probably would have opted for slab on grade with 'cushions', had the best of both worlds and not bothered with a basement/floor trusses at all. I just figured if Arctic Heat Pumps offered it and there were just so many on Youtube doing it that I didn't think I needed to ask about it and assumed it was normal practice. (live and learn!)

@David Cary Thank you, and yes, that's what I'm hoping, I'm going the extra mile on a well-insulated, tight house so perhaps the forced air will be more than enough. The bonuses will be cool AC in the summer and no worries of ruining my wood floors.

Thanks everyone for taking the time to help me out here...I think you all just saved me from a very costly mistake

Remember that you can use any hydronic technique like Warm Board for under floor radiant tubing method. You don‘t have to do in-slab if you don’t want to. Nordic air-to-water is another option if you don’t want to do geothermal. The advantage of any Nordic air source heat pump is that there is less equipment outside. That contributes to a longer life cycle and it is ‘local’ for you. I believe the federal government will contribute $5k for geothermal so that covers a lot of the drilling cost.

You might also choose a geothermal triple function HP with forced air heating & cooling AND full capacity hot water for radiant heat and DHW production if your budget permits.

You didn’t mention any details of your new home as to sizes or floors or your electrical rate.

BTW: We have a Nordic geothermal heat pump (Montreal) for almost 20 years. Hasn’t failed yet and I don’t know anyone with a similar size house that heats for le$$!

IMPO

SR

@fsq4cw Thank you, I was looking at different possibilities...Uponor, Thermalboard etc and did call the warmboard company in the US for pricing and it was over $8sqft...by the time I paid the exchange and shipping the extra expense is getting up there for me. The house is 3000sqft, 1 storey, plus 2 car garage (also advised to include in-floor tubing in the concrete) I did call a supply store in Halifax looking for pricing on Watts SmartTrac Panels and am waiting on a call back but I'm guessing the pricing won't be much different than the warmboard. I imagine geothermal would be the ideal, it's the initial outlay that's a hard pill to swallow. With all the increases in building costs I was over budget before even starting.

Geothermal can at times work with a horizontally buried ground loop. DIY Geothermal - What You Need To Know - YouTube One of several good videos he's done.

@dan1888 Thank you, I checked the video and although this is way beyond my pay grade, it may be helpful for someone else reading this thread

What I like about his videos is the simplification of an hvac option that's outside the 'normal' forced air. Most times anything outside the norm becomes an opportunity to charge whatever the contractor feels like. This is because there's little competition and the homeowner doesn't know enough to recognize what would be a fair charge for the work. IME, if you become completely familiar with the product and installation you are then capable of getting a fair estimate and finding a quality contractor. For this reason, I would urge you to explore fully the info available on any non-standard hvac system you are considering. You will see significant rewards for your effort.

Re: dan1888

Just to respond to your last 2-posts for any future readers, Horizontal ground loops always perform well when properly designed and installed.

I watched the, ‘DIY Geothermal - What You Need To Know’ that you linked to. First off this person’s installation looks like a dog’s breakfast with no ‘Best Practices’ instituted from what I viewed. Will it work? Probably but for how long? He’ll have plenty of challenges with how it’s been installed. He’s an engineer so he’ll probably figure it out and repair it. He also said he owns his own 2-foot wide bucket excavator - that’s a good thing, he might need it - this is a total hack job!

The free market system and competition keep prices in line. Get multiple quotes. Ask lots of questions. Ask for references and proof of certification.

I would not recommend geothermal as a DIY project.

If it’s beyond your financial reach, then look to another technology.

Caveat Emptor!

IMPO

SR