Please help: cabinet layout/oven height/pantry options/island size

2 years ago

I am attaching photos of our old kitchen, demolished because of flooding, and a new plan that I am trying to devise. The soffit/bulkhead was torn out, so now the walls go straight up to the (vaulted) ceiling. The west wall runs 154.625" south from the door/opening to the Florida room; south wall is 210.325"; east wall has (30" south wall to door/opening to back hall, 30" for opening, 6" to where tall oven cabinet starts) and then runs 96" north. The entire north end is open to the living/dining area, but had an island with cabinetry dimensions of 24" (N/S) x 60" (E/W) with toe kick originally only on south side and overhang of 12" on W/N/E sides that worked fine for us.

What I liked about the old kitchen:

(1) basic layout with space for rinsing/dicing to right of sink, just enough space for dredging to left of cooktop and for straining/pouring out on the right, and plenty for baking on island;

(2) upper cabinet storage for dishes over dishwasher & silverware in drawer immediately to right; upper cabinet storage for glasses to right of fridge;

(3) bookshelf for cookbooks over the desk area;

(4) corner lower susan for blender, measuring cups, mixing bowls & juicer;

(5) lots of space "in" kitchen so that 3 people could be working at sink/cooktop/oven-island and not be in each other's way;

(6) drawer space on island for tin foil/saran wrap/baggies + baking tools + potholders/placemats;

(7) the height of the wall oven was perfect (unfortunately I don't know how high it was) and the height of the microwave worked for us since we're both tall;

(8) while I didn't use the desk (east wall) as a desk per se, a broken leg & stint in a wheelchair convinced me of the convenience of at least one ADA height surface;

(9) between the end of the kitchen cabinets on the west wall and the door to the Florida room was space to put our dog's bowls--definitely a priority in our house.

What I didn't like was

(1) no good space for spices (I had them in an upper susan in a former kitchen and I liked that);

(2) no vertical storage for cookie sheets/trays;

(3) having to get down on my hands and knees to dig out frying pans and the stand mixer from the lower cabinets;

(4) pantry cabinets to left of fridge were deep shelves that didn't pull out, so things would get lost in the back--I imagine that is easy to solve.

The kitchen is in the middle of the house (dining room to east, Florida room to the west, living room to the north, back hallway to master to south) and has a vaulted ceiling that we couldn't change without rebuilding pretty much the entire house.

I'm attaching my tentative plans. (Note: my measurements on the whole room plan don't exactly match up to the wall plans because I realized after drawing the whole room plan that my old oven was 27" and the new one I had ordered is 30", so the cabinet has to be wider. Also, I don't know what dimension an upper cabinet has to have to accommodate a lazy susan large enough for my spices--in a previous kitchen, it was 24".)

Aside from the measurements and layout of the plan, I am flummoxed by style/color of cabinetry and countertop. I tend to gravitate to contemporary light wood slab doors, Mike likes painted white Shaker, the house style is what I'd call generic brick 80's ranch, and we replaced the former white tiles/carpeting of the kitchen/living area with slate-look porcelain tile. Former cabinets & countertop were a light gray Formica, which although not "in style" we loved. Neither of us likes granite or marble because of the noise it makes. Maybe quartz, but the only one I've liked so far was a honed dark color that looked like soapstone, and I think we need a light colored countertop for our aging eyes.

Thanks for having the patience to read through this and for any advice you have.

Featured Answer

Lynne Om (9A, New Smyrna Beach,FL)
Original Author

2 years ago

@Sena01, yes that type of storage is exactly what I was thinking about for cookie sheets, but do you happen to have a vertical dimension for any of them? I wanted to see if I could fit them under the wall oven without its being too high. The mixer lift…I think probably not; it’s not that big a deal for me to lift it up on the island, as long as I have a cabinet there to store it in. If I add up all the numbers on the south wall, I get 209, at least if I added correctly. There are a couple of places where I sort of randomly put in 2” (like around the fridge) because I wasn’t sure if those sidewalls would need extra reinforcing.

@Joseph Babcock, you are probably right about the position of the sink, but I really dislike them in islands (I know this is a personal foible.) plus I truly use all the available space on the island when I am baking, especially Christmas cookies and I can see the back yard from the sink’s current position.. When the oven door is down & I’m taking something out of the oven, I just have to pívot to my left and the island is right there for hot things. Same applies to the microwave, situated above the oven. Since the front door is on the same side of the house as the garage door/back hall and we have no young children at home, that “back” opening to the kitchen only gets used when Mike and I are bringing in groceries, but I can see how it might be a problem if more people lived here.

@Patricia Colwell Consulting: thank you for your advice. I did not realize that Houzzers such as yourself would think that my previous specific questions on lighting placement and vent adaptation to a vaulted ceiling would be considered as the same subject as the oven height and cabinet layout, although you are certainly correct in that it is the same kitchen. My apologies. I perhaps erroneously assumed that the title of the former posts would prevent anyone from reading a separate question further down in the comments.

I created the drawings posted, not a cabinet designer, so if you want to blame someone for faulty design, please feel free to blame me. This is only the second time in my life that I have done it. I realize that some people prefer their spices in drawers; I prefer mine at eye level in an upper cabinet. I used to have my oils in a narrow upper cabinet by the cooktop, but with the larger hood, I’m not sure that’s possible; I’ll look again. I think I allowed 4” between the hood & upper cabinets, but I would have liked 2”. I’m not sure how narrow cabinets or drawers can be before they look “off”. As it is, the difference in height between the uppers and lowers seems off-balance me, although that seems to be the style.

The space in the middle of the kitchen has worked well for me when I have had multiple people cooking or setting out, as in community Christmas cookie baking and potluck dinners. I would probably feel differently were I the only cook in the kitchen or if I had’t lived with U-shaped kitchens most of my life. I thought I had drawn mostly drawers on the lowers, but perhaps that wasn’t clear or I got confused at the end about how many drawers versus cabinets to have. I need at least a couple of lower cabinets for the tall stand mixer, iced tea jar, and tall dry dog food containers. And maybe for the slow cooker and the tall stock pot? The induction cooktop specified no drawers under it…seemed weird to me. I don’t know if I drew the drawer under the oven tall enough for cookie sheets (14 x 17) but I know that I want the oven high enough so that I don’t have to bend over for the middle rack.

Finally, although you are undoubtedly right about the wisdom of hiring a kitchen designer, between the contractor charging triple what insurance allows, having had to replace my car (totaled by Ian’s flooding) and a failed (but unfortunately very expensive) contract with a designer—not a cabinet salesperson, by the way—I don’t feel that I can risk any more. Right now, we have just gotten drywall. I need to come up with a kitchen plan because even if I turn it in tomorrow, we won’t get it until mid-June.

I understand that what I end up with may not be a kitchen designer’s ideal, but I am working under constraints—on a slab that local plumbers have advised not to rip up for plumbing changes, with a basic layout that should its footprint change much would involve ripping out and replacing the tile throughout most of the open-plan house, and I’m trying to get back in our house before the next hurricane season starts at the end of June. Any help in doing that is much appreciated.

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (13)

PRO
Patricia Colwell Consulting
2 years ago
last modified: 2 years ago
THis is why we ska to not start more posts on the same subject now you ahve answers everywhere . My advice is get an independant kitchen designer and listen to waht they tell you . Cabinet sales people are not the ideal choice for kitchen design anf fo sure not your cabinet maker or your contractor .I never like crossing in front of the range to go from fridge to sink and wahy on earth do you want to have 8' of space in the center of the room? Those are just 2 things there are many more .I like spices in drawers with lables on top and not next to the range but close same for oils not next to the range but close . I have my oils in a narrow under counter pull out and all my spices in 2 drawers I cook a lot.All base cabinets shoulfd be drawers and you can even get drawers under your sink now .
0
J J
2 years ago
Adding a sink on the island and moving it closer to the cooktop would also offer a better working layout. I might worry about people entering from the garage with the double ovens there - there’s not much of a landing zone to put hot things nearby.
0
Related Professionals
Waianae Kitchen & Bathroom Designers · Del Aire General Contractors · Grand Junction General Contractors · Modesto General Contractors · Panama City General Contractors · Palm River-Clair Mel General Contractors · Clayton Architects & Building Designers · Saratoga Springs Kitchen & Bathroom Designers · Southbridge Kitchen & Bathroom Designers · Riverton Furniture & Accessories · Aberdeen General Contractors · Ken Caryl General Contractors · Stoughton General Contractors · Camarillo Kitchen & Bathroom Remodelers · Payson Kitchen & Bathroom Remodelers
sena01
2 years ago
Some storage ideas.

Beautiful Kitchen · More Info

Kitchen Cabinetry, Tray storage · More Info

Transitional Kitchen · More Info

Mixer Base Provides Easy Access to Heavy-Duty Mixers · More Info

I'm confused about your south wall. Would you be using only 194" for cabinets and fridge out of the 210" you have on that wall? I'm no expert, I guess some fillers, panels, whatever are needed but 16" seemed bit excessive.
0
PRO
JAN MOYER
2 years ago
last modified: 2 years ago
I understand the slab/floor issue.

That said? I'd not make a new kitchen look like it was stuck in the dark ages !!

Being "used to" things, can get you old lady, old kitchen inconveniences as well.

Nothing is more convenient than spices facing up at you in a drawer.

Nothing is more convenient than drawer storage, for the most anything......including pots , pans, lids, even dishes and glass ware!

But mostly? Your island configuration needs a change. Sorry. Not a good look. Nor convenient, and you can still make xmas cookies. For the entire neighborhood.

It's you and Mike? Get a counter depth fridge , please. Lot's I don't love, but at least correct these, and should be NO flooring issue at all. Covers the footprint of island cabinetry. You get a 42 x 78 island

BTW........ Consider Dupont Corian for tops. Light, plain, not noisy,,,,,,,,,,,,

Yes......making a come back : )
design inside
2 years ago
One potential improvement to the kitchen layout could be adding a sink to the island and relocating it closer to the cooktop. This would create a more functional workspace for cooking and cleaning tasks.

However, it's important to consider the potential issue of people entering from the garage with the double ovens in close proximity. The current layout does not offer much space for a landing zone to safely place hot items. This could be a concern for anyone carrying hot dishes or cooking materials from the garage into the kitchen. Therefore, it may be necessary to reconfigure the layout or add additional countertop space near the entrance from the garage to ensure safe and efficient access to the kitchen.
0
sena01
2 years ago
but do you happen to have a vertical dimension for any of them? I wanted to see if I could fit them under the wall oven without its being too high.

Sorry, where I live ovens are smaller and so are the trays, therefore I don't have any dimensions. But I found this old post. If some of the posters are still around you may ask them.
Lynne Om (9A, New Smyrna Beach,FL)
Original Author
2 years ago
@Jan Moyer, a definite yes to the Corian; have not yet found anyone near us who fabricates it; shops say they have switched to quartz because it takes them twice as long to do the Corian. Still looking We are old (although Mike is no lady & I’m beginning to wonder about me) which I’m sure affects our ” fashion sense” but also our sight. If you were 6’6”, you would see that a spice label down 3’+is less visible than one 1’ at eye level. in the past I had discounted counter depth fridges because they were not deep enough for pizza boxes or platters, but obviously I should allow space for possible future dimensions. To me, turning the counter lengthwise seems awkward, as it would be between the oven & sink—I thought that was to be avoided. That said, I’ll lay it out in tape on the floor & try it out. We may have enough of the original tile left to piece around the resulting 1’ x 2’ bare spot.
0
Lynne Om (9A, New Smyrna Beach,FL)
Original Author
2 years ago
@sena01, oh thank you so much! I’ll try contacting them through Houzz. I knew I had seen something, but then lost it & couldn’t find it again.
0
YouTube's Mountain Home Rookies
2 years ago
I personally like the island as counter prep space. Like you had it. I think that the sink in there takes away space from that. In our new design that we are working on to build a new home. We are planning on that
mcarroll16
2 years ago
Island placement as Jan has it is incredibly convenient--speaking from personal experience. It doesn't create any obstacle between the cooktop and sink. It does give you prep space that's a convenient pivot from both. When two people are cooking together, it's fantastic, because you can both move between sink and range, one person on the perimeter and one pivoting to the island. You will be amazed how much you like having island space so close to your cooktop. Also, note that Jan's plan gives you a lot of clearance around the island. You will have plenty of space for buffet service or group baking projects.

I use a lot of lazy Susans for upper cabinet storage, but I do get frustrated by items disappearing into the center of the tray. What about spice storage in pullouts? Picture below is just one example. There are people on Etsy who will make custom sizes for you at pretty good prices.
PRO
JAN MOYER
2 years ago
last modified: 2 years ago
You don’t go from an oven to a sink!

You go from an oven to a place to set down!

That oasis of travel space you created is not only inconvenient?!

Its not safe… and sorry, does not look good.

The inches on your own graph paper don't lie.

Also..... for those above not understanding

There's no sink on the island I drew. The walking clearances are noted! 60 " , 48" ,48 "

You don't need 8 feet to pass by a range! This is MORE convenient to Fridge, range, and sink under the window

If I walked in and saw this as below?

I would think the cabinet installer couldn't read a plan......... or went to lunch and had a few too many beers
0
Lynne Om (9A, New Smyrna Beach,FL)
Original Author
2 years ago
I laid out a couple of different island shapes using sawhorses, boxes, and old closet doors. Reconfiguring the island lengthwise did not work for us, because when Mike and our (large) dog were in the space with me, we were constantly bumping into each other (as we also do in the rental house where we are staying, where the counters are 58” apart although only about 6’ long.) Since that configuration seems to work for many of you, I can only conclude that we are either exceptionally wide or exceptionally clumsy or blind as bats, or a combination of the three.

(1). More important now, however, is: if you have a wall oven, how high off the floor is its middle rack? (In the photo Sena01 posted, the cookie sheet drawer would be like the lower gray one with the oven and microwave over it.)
(2) if you have a side-opening microwave, how high off the floor is the revolving tray inside?
(3).if you have a tall pantry cupboard (think fridge height x 24” deep) do you prefer tall skinny pullouts or flat/tray like pullouts and why?
Thanks.
0