I don't think that's the date the tree was started from seed, a 4 year old conifer, pine or not, would not require a 10 gallon pot (maybe a 4 year old tomato plant :-))

Don't know what else the date could be :-(

Your tags are much, much nicer, BTW :-)))

I wonder, if this is a grafted cultivar, could it be the graft date?

Don't know about the date...

But that's a really nice tree.

I grew one years ago starting at 1gal. and up potting as the seasons came around. After growing it to around 4/5 ' took it to one of my daughter's house and planted it out for her yard.

Unfortunately a buck shredded into nothing in no time...

Just by looking at the tree, it could be 5-6 yo already, hard to say exactly.

It's 40" tall and imo, way overpriced.

The nursery was 100 mi north of me so the tree looks like it's still dormant.

It was a 'Bird in the hand' moment. ;-)

I was relieved to find out that the tree hasn't been in this #10 pot all that long. Once the pot was off, there were no big, woody roots circling inside and for the most part, the roots around the circumference were of the finer variety and didn't travel sideways more than a few/several inches. I took a hand cultivator and raked the outside of the root ball some, to loosen any roots and it wasn't very bad at all.

I needed another tree to fill a gap in the screening of the new apartments and wanted something different. :-)

Update: 6-1-2023

Tree settled in well. Some new growth and even making cones.

Looks great. That's a handsome tree !

8-5-2023: Update.

DW commented today on how much the P. cembra has grown since planting. So, I askied her if she wanted me to go measure it.

Here it is, 49" tall. 9" total growth this season (I'm getting to like this tree). :-)

It's a toss up between cembra and koraiensis as my favorite non-native pine. If you paid less than $200 for it, you did well. A #10 P. cembra 'Prairie Statesman' at Gerten's is $250.

Yeah, price of trees has gone through the roof. And just because you live 'up north' doesn't mean that the prices go down either.

But it's a nice tree and I did have one like this in mind for some time now.

The koraiensis to me looks a little rattier in form, more like p. banksiana, but in the right setting it's probably fine.

I like the tightness of the branches on Cembra and is it a stiff little tree! Try to rock it in the ground, it will hardly bend or budge. ;-)

I added a P. resinosa, 2+ ft. tall, to a weakness in my screen, Summer 2021, when I heard the adjacent lot sold and they were putting up apartments.

I'm glad I did, it's 40" tall already and should only take a couple more seasons to start helping.

These things put on 2-3 ft. annually so next year lookout! :-)

Taken today. 8-5-23

Here's the view of the apartments from my deck. Each apartment has a 12'x10', or something like that, cement patio. The far right is covered up completely by spruce trees and the far left by the pine grove.

You can see how the P. resinosa along with the p. cembra, will pretty much take care of the center patio and windows in just a short time.

The Q. ellipsoidalis behind the p. cembra will eventually help also but it just isn't growing in the directions I would like it too, yet. But a guy needs a new tree once in a while anyways. :-)

The place I bought from was north of park rapids had a $289 price tag on the P. Cembra.

There were only 2 left. I asked it she'd take $200 and she immediately said no.

Then I said, how about $250? She thought a minute and then said she had to go check on something. In about 10 minutes, she came back and told me yes, that would be fine.

;-)

But a guy needs a new tree once in a while anyways. :-)

Lol That's right !!!

Al, you're a tree enabler. Thank you! :)

Where I am located the common problem with grafted conifers is the scions being put on stocks that have been made into corkscrews or yarn balls by sitting in small bands or pots too long. So, the outside of the roots on a purchased specimen is not where to check for deformities at planting time. With the problem being so pandemic that I pretty much quit buying grafted stock - including broad-leaved kinds - some time ago. Except where I can see that the roots are okay. Like with material sold bare-rooted.

Thanks, Embo,

I agree with the outside roots not being the only place to look.

Mine looked great when I pulled the pot, but I failed to mention that after finding the root flare, and raking the sides with the hand cultivator, I also took a knife and slit the sides of the root ball then sliced the bottom several times too.

My BIL was in shock when he saw me do that.

It ended up the tree was essentially bare rooted because most of the barky mix that came in the pot was lying in a pile, that I raked up and put in a pail.

Not that I couldn't still have problems.

Time will tell.

My cembra has done next to nothing for three years now. It's getting frustrating .

P. Cembra 'Prairie Statesman' is grafted onto a P. Strobus root stock, from what I've read.

The reason is because P. Cembra is such a slow growing tree.

I really don't know enough about the science behind all this but Lane, is yours a straight species P. Cembra? That could explain the reason for the slow progress.

Mine is ’Algonquin Pillar’. We had really bad weather (horrible early and late freezes) for pretty much its entire life with me. Maybe they are sensitive to that. it puts out some new growth each year, but grows like two inches. Yours looks very nice

Thanks L.

As long as it grows 2" each year and appears healthy, you've got to glad about that.

I've heard of a lot worse results in tree planting, some pretty close to home, my home. lol

From what I can find, mature height of Algonquin Pillar is approx. 20 ft. while Prairie Statesman is 30-40 ft. in cultivation. So, probably no point in comparing the two, where annual growth is concerned. Described as 'Slow Growing' your Algonqin is probably closer to being on course than you might think.

A curious point, from what I can find, both species, are propagated by grafting. From what I understand, that would mean they need a 5-needle pine for rootstock. I found that my P.S. uses P. strobus for rootstock but for the life of me, I can't find what rootstock they use for Algonquin.

AFAICT: There aren't that many 5-needle pines to choose from. Well, maybe someone here can tell us what they use.

And give us an update of your Algonquin Pillar sometime, :-)

Bill - here is the tree

Pretty sparse

Salt spray may be a factor. From a study in the Journal of Arboriculture…

Salt tolerance (best survival, least foliar symp- toms, and least growth reduction — i.e., Pinus thunbergii, P. ponderosa, P. nigra) accompanied low internal chloride and sodium. The highly susceptible species (with poor susceptible high foliar injury, and great growth reduction) were P.

strobus, P. banksiana, P. cembra, P. peuce, and P. densiflora.

The whole article…

https://joa.isa-arbor.com/request.asp?JournalID=1&ArticleID=2173&Type=2

tj

Hmmm, yeah, if salt/sodium chloride is used on that street and the speed limit is 6/mph or greater, salty mist coming of off the tires of cars, through centrifugal force, will drift considerable distances with wind direction playing a big part in that.

My thoughts, when seeing the picture, showing a 6-8 ft. wide boulevard, with cement sidewalk on one side and asphalt pavement on the other, was that this would likely qualify for what is known as a 'Hell strip', where heat is absorbed both ambiently from the air and through solar radiation.

Both these materials above, are capable of storing heat over periods of many hours.

High temperatures alone can affect trees' root zones, reducing its optimal growth potential.

The rock(s) laid around the outside of the edging, would not help this issue,

My conclusion: the area shown, although not ideal for growing trees, which could survive for decades, will never becoming as good of specimens, as they would under better growing conditions.

All my other pines in this strip are doing well. I have two austrian pines and a mugo, as well as two weeping norway spruces. This is why I'm perplexed. They do not use salt on our roads, either.

That is puzzling, when you figure all the varieties you mentioned all grow at near the same altitudes in their native range.

Have you done a soil test? Ph?

One other thought.

Cement can raise the soil ph radically. This is another factor of a 'Hellstrip'.

Not so much the installed cement of curb and sidewalk, although that alone can raise ph to alkaline levels over time. And as you mentioned L. Clark, that the other trees aren't having an issue.

But while watching cement being poured, have you ever noticed when the job is done or when one truck has delivered its load and is ready to leave.

The workers will rinse the chute on the cement truck with water, before leaving?

Washing all that cementy water down the chute?

And where does that sludge water go? Generally, they point the chute into a void or area between the curb and the sidewalk. Leaving that spot soaked with liquid rich with cement.

Could it be possible that your P. Cembra, just so happened to be lucky enough to be sitting on top of one such area left by the crew that poured the cement?

I suppose a ph test could be done in just that area, deep enough to see if something so remote like that could've happened.

Just for fun, I compiled this information on soil ph of the trees you mentioned. Note P. nigra and mugo.

9-14-2023:

Season end update:

Hit 50" tall and no problems so far. There was a little white substance on some of the stems, earlier this summer but I kept hosing it off when I watered, and it soon disappeared.
Pinus Cembra 'Prairie Statesman' (Herman).

:-)

Interesting article about this tree. Found this researching after my Picea Abies showed winter burn on needles after the first snow fall.

' Needles of ‘Herman’ do not exhibit any winter discoloration, including winter needle burn as seen in other Pinus species. '

https://journals.ashs.org/hortsci/view/journals/hortsci/55/4/article-p595.xml

Good to know I shouldn't have to do any winter prep on this tree. ;^)

6-21-2024:

As advertised the P. Cembra came through winter with no issues at all.

It's still stretching up some, but the main leader grew to 11" long this season.

The rest of the terminal ends were anywhere from 4"-8"L.

Many more new cones forming.

I don't know how they'll get pollinated but a few from last year look almost ripe.

New cones this season.

Main leader: (4)

Side branch: Multiple of these. Some single cones.

:^)

What a fine looking specimen! It was developed at NDSU, so no surprise it’s flourishing for you. It’s an excellent pine species for the Upper Midwest.

Thanks, maackia.

~10" a year is considered 'slow growing' but the fullness and dark green needles gives it a distinct appearance among the rest of the yard trees.

And if the cones decide to grow on, the larger size and contrasting purplish color should be quite ornamental.

Hows yours been doing?

Mine are doing great. Easy to grow and easy on the eyes. I’ve got a clone from the late Joseph Brau that must’ve been on the deer browse path, but otherwise all four are growing nicely.

Very nice dark green. A nice image in the winter.....

My cembra sucked again this year. I’m about to rip it out

L Clark,

Have you ever found out why it's not growing? Do any soil tests?

Do the winter buds get frozen after it comes out of dormancy in the spring and have to start over again?

Is the soil too caustic, causing the ph to soar upwards of what tree prefers?

You can't have a tree with too many variables 'out of whack' and expect it to look and grow well.

If that was my tree and an expensive one at that, I'd be doing some testing.

It's not that hard to do or that costly.

If nothing helps, at least you tried and then it's time to go with Plan B. ;-)

Remember this?

I babied it for 7 years before I decided it wasn't worth it. :o\

' One of the most common and recommended soil analysis packages for crops and gardens is the S-4 routine analysis, which costs $20/sample. This test measures pH, buffer pH, sum of cations (CEC), base saturation, soluble salts, organic matter, nitrate-nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium, calcium, magnesium, sodium, sulfur, zinc, iron, manganese, and copper '

University of Wyoming:

https://wyoextension.org/natronacounty/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/2022-june-agnewsletter.pdf

This would eliminate all the guessing and wondering about what is needed or not.

if you take samples in from more than one spot and mix them together, you'll get a gerneral idea of the whole area.

They probably would put a Ph analysis in there for a couple of bucks

eta: I see Ph is included in the routine analysis.

Knowledge is the best way to success.

5-21-2025:

Pinus Cembra with yellow candles yesterday.

///

Nice!! my cembra still suuuuxxxccckkkss. I’m going to yank it if it doesn't grow A LOT this year

Before I'd yank an expensive tree, I'd do some investigating and find out why it's underperforming. To see if it's something that can be easily fixed.

Be a shame to remove an established tree if something simple might have remedied the problem.

8-10-2025:

At least another foot this season and a few more female cones.

I didn't measure but it's taller than I am (6ft?).

Drought tolerant too, perfect for my sand with dry summers.

Picture from July 21st.

Like clockwork, another foot of growth for the season.

I'm impressed w/the species. I may have to get one even tho out of room on my lot. (a guerilla planting)

Even though this one is not a perfect example, the form appears to 'tighten up' and get 'thicker' over time.

Lots of cones this year.

Really nice

7-7-26:

Cones:

I tried soaking some to see if they had viable seed, all of the seed 'edit: floated'.

After soaking them a few days, I placed them in the refridgerator.

We'll have to see later if they sprout.

:-)

Pretty impressive that a pine that young is coning, tho that trait in pines is pretty variable. I have cones on some young pines, but none yet on much older ones here.

Oh, sorry, correction, all the seed floated for days.

So, just for fun I put them in a baggie and paper towel in the fridge.

The odds are they have nothing to pollinate them unless they might somehow cross with a native pine here. Time will tell. ;-)

ps: The seeds I'm testing were in mature cones from last season.