Ugh, maybe it was too good to be true to see Barbara Oliva back in stock :( I won’t receive mine for a week or two and hopefully I’ll be lucky to have a bud on it but Iikely not. It’s hard for me to tell from the pictures and where is seems the bud is being aborted but the mossing appears sparse here - much less prominent than Pauls pictures on HMF. Hopefully he’ll be able to chime in here.

Thanks, Dave! Yes, Paul believes it is not the real deal. I knew I was gambling when I ordered it. If you get a chance, could you let me know when you get yours, in bloom or not. I am very curious to hear about what you receive. I think the foliage is a good indicator, too, even if the bloom is missing. The foliage on my plant looks too pointy and smooth to my eye. Carol

Well, just to let you know how far afield RVR can go in error, what I got for Paul's 'Dakota Redwing' turns out to be 'Mme Isaac Pereire'...for awhile last year, based on an early bloom, we thought it might be another Barden rose, 'Siren's Keep', but, no, with the first flush this year, it is without doubt 'Mme Isaac Pereire', which also grows on the other side of my garden.

Add to note that I see no moss on the bud in the photo, or prickly/glanded pedicel and stem, which would not bode well for it being 'Barbara Oliva'.

Here is a current photo of the bud and foliage of 'Barbara Oliva', which leads me to believe the rose Carol bought is not correct.

Has anyone bought one of my roses and actually received the correct variety in the last year?? The foliage style of the rose Carol got is nowhere near how it should appear.

An acquaintance contacted me last night to show me the 'Ellen Tofflemire' she bought (with bloom present) and I'm 90% certain she got the wrong plant in this case also. This is deeply depressing.

I got the real "Umbra" in the last year, from RVRs. It is not yet blooming this year, but you thought it was correct last Spring, Paul.

I will say I have gotten some great roses from RVRs even when they weren't what I ordered.

I know this is horribly frustrating.

@portlandmysteryrose - I think I see some mossing on the stem and bud of your plant - true? But the leaves do look rather different from Paul's reference photo.

@Steve_M in PA All of the Gallicanae have glandular buds to some degree, which is what you're seeing. But true mossing is much more exaggerated. And yes - the foliage of Carol's plant is nowhere near right for 'Barbara Oliva'.

@User - I have gotten at least one mislabeled rose from just about every source, which is frustrating. But I can only imagine how frustrating it is for you as a breeder of those plants!

@Steve_M in PA The only nursery I never received a mislabeled rose from was Pickering. But other than them, I too have received an occasional mislabeled rose. But it seems RVR has excelled in this territory.

@User Thank you for attaching pictures of the real Barbara Oliva on this thread! The comparison leaves no doubt my rose is not BO, and if others on the forum need a comparison for their orders, these will be invaluable. Alas, I too mourn when your roses are mislabeled. RVR is the main source. I plan to collect some data on this thread and contact RVR. Last time I did so, Janet Inada called me back personally which was amazing! If everyone on the forum is getting the same imposter, knowing this may help RVR growers correct their stock IDs. I do so want them to locate their BOs and label them accordingly if they still have plants growing in their fields. Carol

@catspa_zone9sunset14 MIP! Well, it doesn’t get much farther afield than that! Different class, different size and habit, different disease resistance, different everything. Did you keep MIP, and if so, does she grow well for you? Here in Portland, OR, she is all intoxicating blooms but blackspot and total defoliation on waving octopus arms! If it helps to know this, I did receive 2 Dakota Redwings from RVR which seem to be spot on. Carol

@Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR I, too, received a couple of big orders from RVR last year (for myself and others), and EVERYTHING was spot on! I have noticed that a few specialty nurseries have some weak areas where the wrong plants are stubbornly lodged in the stock: RVR—a number of Barden roses, Heirloom— Tricolore de Flandre and La Ville de Bruxelles, etc. etc. I hope I can collect some data on BO here, and if BO is still growing anywhere in their fields, it can be tracked down and the imposters correctly labeled. Right now, I am hoping to ID my imposter. Carol

When I talked to Janet last year, she said that the roses she sells are grown in California. I may be mistaken, but when she started, I thought they were propagating up in Oregon.

Add more steps, increase the likelihood of stumbles.

@PaulBarden I miss Pickering for the wonderful selection available; however, I did receive two mislabeled roses--duplicates of Great Maiden's Blush instead of Maiden's Blush and Alba Maxima, and a Damask which I later identified as Bella Donna rather than Kazanlik. I must have received Kazanlik as a replacement because I have it in my garden.

Lindsey

@stillanntn6b That seems like an important tidbit of info that might need to be pursued!

@portlandmysteryrose my MIP here in Oregon is disease free believe it or not, growing on a south facing wall of our home. But her blooms shriveled in the heat this past week. Is that normal? She had plenty of water. Maybe I need to move her?

@User my Jeri Jennings from RVR last year is right (and about to do a huge flush) but Joyce Barden turned out to be Ginger Syllabub. Three of the five I ordered last year from RVR were wrong.

All of this makes me glad I didn't order from RVR. A couple of years ago I put my name on a waiting list for four roses. Over long intervals I received notice that three were ready, but didn't want to buy one at a time so decided not to order.

Lindsey

I guess I have been lucky, I’ve ordered a dozen or so plants from Rogue Valley and every one was true to variety. Even my two Paul Bardens were correct

Treasure Trail

Nightmoss

I do feel bad for those who sought out something special and got the wrong variety. This year I ordered a magnolia (direct from Monrovia, no less!) that was wrong, and also a lilac online was obviously not what i wanted.

When (pre RRD) we had over 600 roses, I had a computer list and it included the "nots" as in Not- what I bought it as, not what the label said. Now the garden has holes and some of my fonder ones I call the space "used to be" and yesterday's addition Used to be James Galway who's now holding on by one cane.

Maybe we may need to also become Bea Taylor (in my favorite Mayberry episode) where she grew a really good hybrid tea from seed she collected.)

How sad that you have lost so many of your roses to RRD.

I remember that episode well, and in fact I think one of the great pleasures of roses is growing One-of-a-Kinds from seed. I love the old European roses and usually collect seed from them. This year I will add the Hickory Hill Noisette (an early yellow reminiscent of Lamarque and Devoniensis) and several red early 19th century hybrids, one which Ashdown sold as Rose Edouard, the other two collected from a cemetery.

I have a large single musk which I grew from seed planted right beside the double musk I bought from Monticello as well as several gardenworthy (or so I think) seedlings.

Lindsey

That Nightmoss is beautiful--the golden center makes it extra special.

It's so important to have the darker shades in the garden as contrast for pale pinks and whites. I love my purples and reds.

Lindsey

Speaking of Aunt Bea and her Hybrid Tea, I remember the episode of King of The Hill where Bobby takes up rose breeding: I quote:

"I crossed an Oakington Ruby with a Dainty Bess.
I call it a Ruby My Dear, but I might as well call it "sending you home crying to your mama."

*chuckle*

Of all the roses to reference, they chose 'Oakington Ruby'. So obscure. One of the writers on the show must have been familiar with it.

Let that be the segue to this morning's photo of my 20 year old 'Oakington Ruby', trying hard to escape the greenhouse. The topmost inflorescence is 7 feet up. (The front section is a bit bare because it gets "pruned" by the Hooved Slugs.)

That's pretty amazing.

My un-Barabara Oliva rose arrived today. It looks like what you received @portlandmysteryrose. Did you try contacting RVR already?

At least Unconditional Love looks correct

@User - Oakington Ruby looks incredible and one I personally don’t think I’d want to try and tame.

@Dave5bWY 'Unconditional Love' is correct, but 'Barbara Oliva' is not. As you said, it appears you got the same incorrect rose that Carol did. That makes me suspect that none of the plants of it coming from RVR right now are correct. No doubt their California contract grower mixed things up (again) and has propagated the wrong rose.

Thanks for confirming this, Paul. It’s disappointing. I hope the correct ’Barbara Oliva’ is out there somewhere but I don’t know of any other source.

I'm really curious about RVR having a contract grower in California. I understand that the owner is in her 80s, but I always assumed they still grew their own roses in Oregon.

I'll add to the "roses in tv shows" theme and say that one of my favorite episodes of Mama's Family is "War of the Roses" when Mama and best friend Iola both decide to compete for the Crystal Thorn Award at the next rose show. Mama plants a Herbert Hoover and Iola a Dainty Bess. Each is sure she'll win with her intended rose...until a strange hybrid shows up.

Mama's Family "War of the Roses" at IMDB

bellegallica, ’Roses in TV shows’ should have its own thread!

There was one episode of Dynasty where the son Stephen hands evil mother Alexis a bouquet , and she says ’Ah Sterling Silver roses, those are my favorite’. It was the only time I’d heard a rose mentioned by variety in a national TV show.

I thought Herbet Hoover the variety was already past it’s ’sell by’ date by the time Mama’s Family came to be, so I’m surprised they chose that variety.

@BenT (NorCal 9B Sunset 14), @User - "Mama" was rather set in her ways, as I recall. So maybe using "Herbert Hoover" was an in-joke at the time.

@User - King of the Hill was such a good show; they had some very specific references for sure. I will have to go back and watch that episode for sure. I remember that rose show got pretty intense! I also became a Chuck Mangione fan because of that show. :)

I will add a rose reference from a kids' show. On Peppa Pig, there is an episode where Granny Pig and Grandpa Pig babysit Peppa and George while Mummy Pig and Daddy Pig are out. Once the little piggies are in bed, they turn on a gardening program which says, "The Kiftsgate is a particularly thorny rose. To prune it, start by lopping off the head, and then snip away the budding shoots." Some questionable advice. :) And then later it says, "Icelandic roses are a rare treat for the discerning horticulturist. But they are prone to lobbing in temperate habitats." Peppa says, "This show is very boring."

When I visited RVRs a few years ago, they had roses in the band pots offloaded onto the lawn after a grower had just delivered them. Many of these mixups seem to happen at the growers/propagators level I think because the label in the pot is what I have ordered, when the plant was not.

They organize them alphabetically at RVRs, but Janet is probably not out there inspecting them for accuracy of names at this point.

Steve,

That makes sense. I did think of the All in the Family song, ’we could use a man like Herbert Hoover again’.

@Dave5bWY Thank you so much for checking back in with your photos! I was afraid you might end up with the same ”Not Barbara Oliva” as I received. I am guessing the error will consistently happen, so I will contact RVR to let them know so that they can have the grower check its stock. Your Unconditional Love is gorgeous! What a deeply red and mossy beauty!

@Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR Thank you for sharing your what you witnessed at RVR during delivery. It’s great that you live so close by and can both snag rare old roses on site and share your personal experiences with the forum! I suspect you are 100% right. The BO problem is due to the grower’s mislabeled stock.

@User Thank you for confirming the hits and misses! I knew ordering BO was a gamble, but I just had to try! I was going to order a couple more to increase my odds, but in this case, I’m glad I didn’t since I’d probably have struck out on all. I’m going to contact RVR in the next couple of days and will send them photos and a link to this thread along with my email.

Carol

Current photos of 'Barbara Oliva' leaf and buds.

I hope you will post a picture when it blooms. I looked it up at HMF and it is beautiful--such perfect form. What a disappointment for those who expected to receive it and got another rose unlikely to be as beautiful.

I see that HMF also lists parents as unnamed seedlings. One of the many features I love about European roses is that, in my limited experience, they usually seem to produce seedlings that are at least gardenworthy and sometimes quite spectacular like this one.

Lindsey

@User Thank you for the clear (and lovely) photos of the real Barbara O! May I attach your photos to my RVR email for comparison with mine? Carol

@portlandmysteryrose Certainly. I can send you larger versions if you wish.

OzxxZXmas žx CC z