Darling family photo of the devious critters - looks like a few wished to remain anonymous.

Haha that is a hilarious post and family portrait. Even though they are blackmailing you into feeding them I hope the relationship becomes more amicable soon.

Fourth one from the left looks like she just ate a whole rose garden! Cute little scoundrels.

Ben, the fourth one from the left is Mamacita, and she's generally the first one to show up for lunch, dinner or snacks.

Jemma, the relationship would be more amicable if my roses were doing better, but most of the roses show no growth at all and one, Grandmothr's Hat, seems to be losing her leaves to some disease. Purple Skyliner is the only one, really, to have new growth, but they are such tiny little leaves that it's discouraging.

I haven't totally lost heart but at this point I'd say the score is ground squirrels 1 and Ingrid 0.

I have never seen that type of squirrel before. Is the chubby one on the left a pregnant female or just chubby? I think you are dealing with gang activities that's about to multiply! I'm concerned for your home. I know nothing of this type of squirrel, but the ones we do have caused thousands of dollars in damages to my Mom's house. They made a nest in the attic and were chewing on everything including rafters and electrical wires. Are there any wildlife relocation services in your area?

Oh, Ingrid! Too cute and horrible at the same time.

I think mama may be eligible for Ozempic

Brazen hussies

I think you may need to hire someone: "Ground squirrels damage garden plants and fruit and nut trees. They can also cause damage to building foundations, fences, and levee systems." "Though they don't typically enter homes, ground squirrels are notorious for burrowing. They may burrow under patios, stairs and foundations, potentially causing expensive structural damage. Ground squirrels also pose a health threat to humans, particularly when many squirrels are present."

"According to the University of California’s Agriculture and Natural Resources department:

'Ground squirrels are associated with the spread of Rocky Mountain spotted fever, rat bite fever, tularemia, Chagas’ disease, adiospiromycosis, and encephalomyocarditis. Notably, they can serve as reservoirs for sylvatic (bubonic) plague, a highly infectious disease caused by the bacteria Yersinia pestis…People and their pets can get plague if they visit or live in areas where ground squirrels or other rodents are infected.'"

Your squirrels scare me! That photo looks like a street gang making plans... And they are about to quadruple in numbers.

Oh Ingrid, that photo made me want to laugh and cry at the same time!

Sharon, your comments have had quite an impact on me. I've discussed the situation with my husband and he is on board with not feeding the ground squirrels any more. They've had their last catered meal this evening, and that will be the end of it. I know that this probably means they will eat all of my roses, including Wild Edric, my one mature rose, but I think it's for the best overall. It's possible that, once the situation has stabilized and their numbers have dwindled considerably, I can try again. If not I'll be planting a few more oleanders, the one plant that they absolutely will not eat.

Thank you for your concern and the information provided. We've gone back and forth quite a few times on whether or not to feed the squirrels, but this will be the last time. I'm afraid we'll have some very cranky ground squirrels in the near future!

I think that's wise too. And if you keep feeding them, there'll be more and more and more ground squirrels. Keep us posted and I hope it's not too horrible of a transition ... i.e. I hope they leave without further bothering your roses. :)

I don't suppose you'd consder getting a cat? A skinny, hungry one. Predators have their uses in an ecosystem.

P.S. I genuinely don't know whether this is a good suggestion: it's made half tongue in cheek. I'd appreciate others' ideas.

Yeah, I was thinking about a little dog-one of those really territorial, aggressive little females , or a terrier or something...those squirrels look scary to me, too.

A cat AND a dog might not be a bad idea. I’m amazed at the difference in my gopher population in the last two years. My cats and my beagle both have full run of my fenced in property and love gophers. I saw a ground squirrel last week on my property, but I don’t expect him to last long around there. My beagle has a stuffed squirrel toy that he loves to tussle with so I expect the real one had better find somewhere else to live or he will become a toy for my beagle as well. Seriously, I don’t need to plant roses in gopher baskets anymore! Neither are the bunnies chewing my plants off anymore.

I came back here to edit my comment. I wanted to specify that I am sure some of what I found is sensationalized. I only found 1 case of the bubonic plague from 2020. What alerted me is that when I look up animals or insects, I have never before had that many .gov and .edu sites come up. I also had no idea about the diseases and I was worried in case they did multiply and you have children that might get too close. So, I did freak out in that regard.

I would like to say again, I don’t know anything about this squirrel other than my research yesterday. But the ones that multiplied in my Mom’s attic were so territorial that they would throw things (like small rocks) and chase after my sister when she would go in the back yard. I don’t want such a situation to happen to you or your family. Nor do I want you to have to spend thousands if their burrowing does affect your home’s structure (from the photo it looks like you may be on an incline). Spending money on plants is much more fun.

I don’t think a cat would help; I think these are too big for a domestic cat to even bother. But I did think about owls. I don’t know what owls or birds of prey you have there, but I know here there is a type of owl that you can put houses up for them and sometimes they will come to live there. These houses are specifically made for this type of owl. I know a deep, big, steady bird bath helps. I read that birds will travel farther for a steady supply of water than they will travel for food. I have a large, deep, ceramic bird bath and this year 4 little owls have been coming here every day at dusk.

It may still be worth your time to ask around where you live or maybe consult a professional for the best way to deal with the situation you have. Maybe there is an animal, certain plants, or something else you could add that would make them want to relocate.

You could try and flip the script and chase after them with a hose of water that has a handheld setting that will jet the water for a long distance.

Based on your history here, Ingrid, I think you would be happier tending flowers rather than an ever increasing family of ground squirrels. But only you can decide what is best for you, and I wish you happiness and success, whatever the decision may be.

I've hesitated to say anything about this for fear of jinxing things, but this summer, for the first time in the 26+ years DH and I have been in our house, we have had not a single groundhog. When we moved in, they were living under the house. Once we'd get rid of them, others would just move in - I think the scent attracts them. Anyway, this year, the first time I saw a woodchuck, I began dumping my used kitty litter in their burrow by our house. And I was religious about it - every single day, I'd dump it there. Now, I'd tried this once before but I only did it a few times - I wasn't nearly rigorous enough about it. Plus this winter I switched to the clumping litter, and I think maybe that retains the odors better. Of course, the other factor that might be an influence is we are hearing our local coyotes singing at night much more this year than ever before, so who knows. Anyway, Ingrid, I was wondering if you could try something like this? I believe ground squirrels live in burrows in the ground, but I doubt it would be hard to find them. Of course, you might not want to take on a pet right now, which I know is a big responsibility. But maybe you have a friend or a neighbor with cats/dogs? (though I guess it would be a bit of a difficult "ask", lol!!) Or even better, how about volunteering at a shelter and asking to be the kitty poop scooper? I can't imagine there's a shelter in the world who wouldn't be thrilled to have a kind lady who obviously loves animals and WANTS to be the chief scooper! Personally, I think I'd start with kitty waste rather than dog, because I know that cat pee is extra stinky, plus there's my own experience with the woodchucks (or blessed lack thereof) this summer. Just a thought!

Ingrid, I love our two small chihuahua/terrier mix rescue dogs but they have not solved our ground squirrel/gopher problem here. I do continue to use the Gopher Hawk and wire root baskets to plant new roses. Here, they do not eat the roses tops thankfully. You are probably right to stop feeding your critters because they are the fattest ground squirrels I have ever seen.

I so appreciate your interest in my situation (problem) and your kind comments and advice. A kitty or small dog outside would last about a day before being devoured by the resident coyote population. I've never seen a coyote succeed in catching a ground squirrel; they mostly go after the rabbits, of which there are only two left on our property that I can see. We do have owls but they mostly hunt after the ground squirrels have gone into their burrows in the evening. Hawks and other birds of prey will go after them but compared to the past I've sadly seen very few of them around. As you can see on my logo picture I do have a cat who is of course strictly indoors. I hadn't ever thought of using kitty litter as a deterrent but that's certainly an idea. That, together with not feeding them, may just be a solution that might work.

I know to most people these critters are just seen as pests but when they will eat out of your hand, holding onto your fingers to steady themselves, and practically sit on your foot because they trust so much, it makes it difficult. We created this problem years ago by feeding them and, although you've all been too kind to say so, the resultant overpopulation no doubt contributed to them decimating my roses. It's never a good idea to interfere and in the end I think everyone pays the price. These squirrels will suffer for quite some time before the situation stabilizes, and that is on me.

Sharon, not to worry, it wasn't the threat of disease that convinced me, although people do become infected (hanta virus with mice for instance), but the realization that the status quo, with many more mouths to potentially feed, is simply not tenable.

I do have a deep bird bath that I clean and refill every day. It's mostly enjoyed by the resident ravens, but I've seen a hawk or two there also.

I feel for you Ingrid. It's going to be hard to stop feeding them.

Kate! I'd like eyes in the back of my head if I lived there. Must be beautiful though.

Titian1 - Oh yes, I‘m very ”bear aware” when I’m gardening especially, no wearing headphones or anything like that. If I hear a twig snap I am very quick to turn around haha, it’s usually a deer or a plump squirrel or rabbit though.

I've gone a whole day without feeding anyone (don't laugh), and your support has helped lots in keeping me strong. It's going to be hard when they devour everything green on this side of the house, but I'm determined to hang tough. Reading the comments about my fat squirrels was just a bit embarrassing! I'm hoping for a mass exodus of many of them when they realize the free all-you-can-eat buffet is permanently closed.

You can do it, Ingrid!!! I didn't realize they were actually eating from your hand and holding onto your fingers with their tiny paws. That does sound difficult to stop. Such trust. But that trust could be a problem...if they are feeling utterly safe in your yard they could be less alert to predators. Which, ironically, is what we're hoping for now. Good luck and, hopefully, they'll find a new place far away.

They're very cute. I think they need to be trapped, taken to the vet and neuterered.

Erasmus, trust me, no vet here would take that on, but you did make me laugh at the idea. No, from now on nature will strictly take its course, for good, bad or otherwise. I've learned my lesson.

It was very hard for me to stop feeding the stray cats at my old neighborhood. It broke my heart a little bit, tbh. I read that when people do that then they stop hunting the mice. At least with cats we have a "trap and release" program which I would do (trap them, city neuters them, release them back out to nature the next day). Btw, I do think squirrels are very cute. And scary. lol Because I know what they did to my sister (chasing her and throwing things at her), which permanently changed my view.

I like the cat litter idea.

My 3 cats are also strictly indoors, for many reasons. I live in the city, but we have an undeveloped area not far from the neighborhood and occasionally see coyotes here. We were told the stray cat population in our [current] neighborhood used to be much higher then one year the coyote population spiked and nearly all the cats disappeared.

Clumping cat litter, which I called litter balls, certainly did not repel our deer. I've tried lots of remedies and nostrums to repel deer, and only one works part of the time. Other than me yelling and barking like a dog, ringing a bell and other embarrassing behavior. Sprinkling cayenne pepper on the roses might have some effect on squirrels, but cayenne has its own downside. Diane

I read that with deer, if they are hungry enough, nothing will keep them away, except cages, and that they will even sometimes nibble at "deer resistant" plants. Cayenne pepper would only work for short period of time for me. I read that liquid seaweed and fish fertilizer will repel some insects, like spider mites. Do they have any repelling effect with deer or other animals?

I use Deer Out repellent with the usual rotten eggs, plus white pepper oil, plus oil of peppermint. It definitely works at least part of the time on our big mule deer, but you have to use it faithfully, and deer are so random, that it's easy to slack off, and then they come calling. We also have the occasional moose, but they have stuck to the streets, the occasional bear, occasional cougar, many hawks and kestrel, gophers, snakes, voles, many coyotes, and badgers. Diane

This guy paid us a call a few weeks ago, stopping by the patio.

Diane: Wow!!!!!! O.o For all of the above. I had to look up kestrel as I hadn't heard that before... What kind of snake is in the photo?

I posted this in the summer thread:

I did some more reading... These are taken from different articles: "heavy-duty woven mesh with a tight weave should do the trick." "wire mesh made from galvanized steel protects against any gnawing squirrels. Moreover, this wire is covered in zinc, making them rust-free, leading to a longer life." "A 19- or 22-gauge wire is a good choice." "you should not get a chicken wire with a size greater than 1-inch." "Squirrel-control fences should be at least 30 inches high and extend at least six inches below ground. An additional six inches of wire mesh should bend outward at a 90-degree angle to discourage burrowing. This works for newly planted bulbs and crops as well as flower beds."

This website, even though they are selling a product, does have information on the wire diameter/gauge to keep out different animals: https://www.twpinc.com/wire-mesh-by-project/pest-control (I am not affiliated with them and do not work for them.)

@Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR What material and gauge are your wire root baskets?

I know so little that I went to look up what type of hawk is a Gopher Hawk and how to attract them to one's garden... I was expecting bird articles and didn't understand why there were so many images of what looked like a pen (to me). lol Ended up going to their Facebook page because I didn't understand how it works. First image... I understand now. If I ever have this problem, I'll let my boyfriend handle this part of it. I guess living on solid stone has its advantages.

Sharon, that is commonly known as a gopher snake above on our patio. They aren't poisonous, but I'm sure the name of the snake says something about its favorite food. I think it has another name, too, but I can't remember it. Yes, the gopher hawk is a device to kill gophers, right? Diane

I bought the 5 gallon "Diggers Heavy Duty Root Guard " on Amazon, Sharon. They really work. 20 gauge according to the detailed description. These arrive flat and are bent into shape.

They have lighter grade gopher baskets too, but I would not risk it.

Yes, Diane, the GH is a killer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXKvsp-xrCk

I just saw this.

Diane, I had to really laugh when I imagined you in your yard, barking like a dog and ringing a bell. Can't help it, I'm laughing again.

Jemma, I had already seen that, naturally. Any bleeding heart, aw shucks animal story has my attention. Of course we had Sammy, a ground squirrel we raised from the tiniest baby, who came back to visit us for years after we released her back to the wild/

The wire cages didn't help until I piled other pieces of wire on top; that does seem to have done some good although not 100%. Nothing ever is, right?

This is the end of day 2 and there is great confusion and consternation in the squirrel community. There is no crazy lady banging on a container of dog kibble so they've hardly ventured from their burrows. I think they're actually in shock. They cannot believe the disaster that has befallen them.

This is Sammy, our baby squirrel whom we kept in the house until she was about four months old, at which time she let us know very firmly that she was a big girl and could be let outside. Even then we watched her very closely and fed her, and she only gradually became more bold. It was a precious experience.

Oh, Ingrid...what a sweetie!!! How fortunate you were to have had this experience with Sammy. :) :) I can see why you've wanted to feed them...they've been like part of your family.

O, gosh, Sharon, fish fertilizer was a TOTAL DISASTER for me!!! It attracted badgers to my garden, and they were so distructive,digging up plants in their search for voles, etc to eat,and it was SO hard to get rid of them. I spent two years re-inforcing my fence to anchor it to the ground so that they couldnìt dig under it; they are enormously territorial.

Ingrid, you are right-you have to stop trying to intervene with Nature in this way. The bottom line is that it's bad for wild animals when people intervene. When my now 25-year-ol son was at school they even taught kids never, ever to touch a baby wild creature even if it seemed alone ,because it could very well NOT be alone, with mother nearby, but if she returns and smells "human" on her baby,she may well abandon it.. As a young woman out at my land, I learned the lesson in a dramatic way that I'll never forget. I saw one of our big snakes (they are harmless to humans, but quite large) in the process of swallowing a toad. To my arrogant young human heart, I thought I saw anguish and horror in the "poor toad's" eyes, and scared the snake away; it spit out the toad. Well, what was left of it-the lower half of it's body was gone, and it was (I fervently hope) already dead. So the snake lost it's meal, the toad's death agony may have been prolonged...the least I could do was learn my lesson.

Walt Disney and his empire have done incalculable damage to the animal kingdom, IMO.

You're absolutely right, Bart, but then I think about Sammy, our little squirrel, who was alone without his mother at two or three days old, and how she enriched our lives for years. That, however, was vastly different from feeding a tribe of squirrels. I also think of my husband rescuing an adult rabbit with a gopher snake curled around its body, prey that it never could have swallowed, and I'm glad he was able to rescue that poor creature. We have to use our hearts and minds in each instance, and sometimes we will fail, but in the case of Sammy and the rabbit I'd like to think that we succeeded.

Thank you @User and @Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR for all the great information! And to everyone else contributing on here. I am learning so much! Bart bart, you saved me from making a very big mistake in the near future because I would have tried my fish fertilizer idea. Thank you!

I looked at the chicken wire I am using against the tree squirrels and whatever nighttime digging animal I have here, and it is 20 gauge with 1" spacing.

Ingrid: your Sammy is so cute!!!!

Ingrid - you and your husband have very warm hearts and I'm grateful to "know" you. :) :) Yes, you did the right thing for Sammy and the rabbit. :) :)

I hope you succeeded, too, Ingrid! It is so hard to be a human, I think. Animals never ate from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil as did we, and now we pay the price, having to face difficult decisions and sometimes messing up, often not knowing if we did the right thing or not.Sometimes doing great harm accidentally, too-like the time,years ago, when I was working my ground with my pick, and suddenly there was a toad in front of me. Inadvertantly I had chopped off his paw, and it held holding up a tiny ,pawless arm, as if screaming "LOOK WHAT YOU DID TO ME!". I will always feel awful about that.

We live in a river valley, surrounded by woodland-covered hills, and there's a lot of wildlife, so here it's very important that kids are taught to contact the animal protection people if they see a wild animal in apparent distress. These people are experts and know how to deal with situations without causing harm either to the animals OR the people.

I don't know how similar bart's wildlife population is to what we have here: she's further south, but her garden conditions in many ways sound like mine. My garden is really not enclosable, being too large, too steep, and with soil too shallow or rocky. Wisdom as well as my modest resources force me to allow Nature to achieve balance as much as possible. We have foxes and wolves to balance out the wild boars, roe deer, and the horridly digging porcupines--badgers, too. Hawks and kestrels are the airborne predators. We do cage some plants while they're small, and sometimes the Italian cypresses for longer as the deer seem particularly fond of damaging them. I've had badgers digging in the garden before, not lately, but one thing I noticed is that, while they were destroying my freshly amended ground and piles of rotting hay, the population of rose chafers seemed to drop, presumably because their grubs were consumed by the badgers. There's a trade-off in many of these things. I'm currently wondering whether the high density of paper wasp nests around the house may not be due to the massive population of box moth caterpillars the last couple of years, as they destroyed all my box. It'll be interesting to see whether the number of nests diminishes with the loss of the box moth "pantry", as I'm cutting down all my box, and consequent loss of abundant caterpillars. If they went to work then on the sawfly caterpillars it would be a fine thing.

I wish lynxes would work their way down here. Both deer and wolves arrived in this area after we moved here, and I think porcupines did, too. No bears, though. I'd be just as happy if the bears stayed away.

Ingrid, your story of Sammy the Squirrel reminds me of a baby fox squirrel I found when I was about twelve years old. I can’t remember how he lost his mother, but I was happy to become his new mother. Such a charming pet! Of course, I released him when he was old enough to fend for himself and he would come and go at will. One day at lunch time the door was open and he came running in, climbed my chair and down my arm, onto the table and shared my bowl of ice cream. Eventually he disappeared and I always worried the owls had gotten him, but perhaps he found a mate and had his own happy family.

Bart, when I was in my teen years, my family lived in Paraguay. One day my brother and I came across a snake that had obviously swallowed a meal not long before. We were indignant and immediately killed the snake and squeezed out the “lump”, which turned out to be a toad. He sat there and blinked his eyes a few times to thank us and hopped away. I felt so gratified. Evidently he was unharmed by the incident.

I have always been fond of animals and hate killing anything, but along with age comes experience and hopefully increased wisdom. I now realize there is a balance in nature and predators are part of that balance. When man fell in the Garden, that perfect balance was broken and we are all trying to find our way in helping restore as much beauty and balance to our little part of this big, broken planet. Of course, since we are also imperfect, we make mistakes along the way. Ingrid, I hope you can find a way to grow beautiful roses. It seems to me there’s an imbalance in that squirrel population and I pray you can find a solution.

I'm immensely touched by all your beautiful and wise comments. Bart, I can see that little toad without his hand and it hurts me, but I think we choose to forget how very cruel nature is, at least to our human eyes. Thank goodness wild animals live so deeply in each moment that they don't have our sad overview of it all. We can only choose to do as little harm as possible, and to try to help when we can, and the rest is thankfully out of our hands.

Bart - that toad experience. I feel for you and the toad. Accidents happen.

As always, Ingrid, you express what I feel but struggle to put into words.