With disclosures, there are no misunderstandings or assumptions and no damages or loss to sue for.

But that’s exactly my point. NY’s effective lack of disclosure brings “as is” to a completely different level. Even in a state with stricter disclosure laws, I’d interpret an “as is” offer to mean the offer is the offer, regardless of deficiencies discovered pre or post sale, disclosed or not. In casual internet conversation, anyway.

"As is" is "as is".

Sounds like NY took a different approach to reduce lawsuits, but that doesn't change what the underlying law for sales contracts is. Even with our questionnaires, there are a myriad of things that could be important to a buyer that are not required to be disclosed. It's no different now than before the disclosure checklist was adopted by (I think) the realtor board, to cut down on lawsuits.

There are no degrees of "as is" as I see it. You can see it differently.

As a buyer, I will either make an offer contingent on an inspection, or I’ll make an offer ”as is”.

With my last home, I offered it for sale ”as is” meaning I don’t care what you find wrong with it, this is how I’m selling it.

Similar to your comments about a cash sale. Yes, in the end a home sale usually involves s transfer of cash. But as heritagehd pointed out, a cash offer implies that there’s no loan/financing to worry about.

These are meaningful concepts which most understand, Meaningful, regardles of how it’s spelled out in legal agreements. Don’t miss the conversation for the technicalities!

You can submit an offer with an inspection or other contingency but that doesn't change real estate law. Contingencies allow you to unilaterally cancel an executory contract. For inspections, if you don't like or are unwilling to move forward with the findings. It conveys no obligation to the seller to repair or otherwise make you happy. It may provide a basis to discuss/negotiate other steps that could lead to something or not but that changes nothing. A sale that goes forward is "as is".

" These are meaningful concepts which most understand, Meaningful, regardles of how it’s spelled out in legal agreements. "

No, the law is the law. Legal terms and concepts are like such things in many other techniucal occupational areas - terms have precise meanings which are often not known, misunderstood, misused or wrongly understood by people not in the field. How it is spelled out in legal agreements (or how the applicable law is written) is what controls, period. Not what someone with an incomplete or lack of knowledge intended or assumed. The old phrase - the letter of the law killith.

The technicalities are what matter, not a real estate or legal outsider's assumptions or expectations not spelled out.

A sale that goes forward is "as is".

The eventual actual completed transaction, yes. Please tell me you’re trying to make a more insightful point than that? Obviously we’re talking about the terms of the offer. The offer being one step in the sales process.

We are not required to fix anything, but if we do not fix what the buyer requests, then he can back out. Since I think we priced our house below market value, I won't spend much on repairs, as I would be fine with putting it back on the market at a higher price after making repairs.

Our agent talked with me today and told me that the buyer is anxious for a quick closing because he will be out of the country starting July 5. She also told me that he is buying the house as investment property and will be renting it until his sons get older and then give it to them. I had the feeling that something like this would be the case, since he lives down the street just a block away. I guess he wants to keep his sons close to him. They might want to go to Loyola Marymount University, which is in Westchester and only about 10 minutes away.

She also told me that he has lots of money and invests in real estate, in addition to having his own very successful global company.

The inspections are on Tuesday (house) and Wednesday (sewer), and then we will hear from from our agent on Thursday or Friday. I'm not expecting problems, but one never knows.

You're clinging to a false assumption. In this comment:

" I will either make an offer contingent on an inspection, or I’ll make an offer ”as is” "

You're talking as if these two different things were alternatives. They're separate aspects of a real estate contract, unrelated.

A contingent offer - leaves the buyer an out within a stated period to cancel an executory (in process, not final) contract. If the contingency passes or is waived, the deal continues to completion and the sale happens. Property sold as is. Because it's real estate

A real estate contract, irrespective of minor terms - IS ALWAYS A CONVEYANCE "AS IS".

Edit to add:

Maybe what's tripping you up is what "as is" means. When you buy a new car, you're not buying an item "as is". There's what's called in the law an "implied warranty of merchantability" for any new goods sold by a retailer. The item is what it appears to be, is new, and can be expected to function as such items would be expected to function. Anything failing that test can be brought back after the fact to be made good on the implied warranty (and there are express warranties too).

When you buy a used car from a dealer, it's usually as is - no guarantees expressed (unless an extended warranty attaches) or is implied. Same as buying from an individual.

Again and no need to continue this, real estate is always conveyed "as is" unless the contract contains a written exception that buyer and seller have agreed to.

Again, the ”as is” being referred to is the step of the sale process known as the offer. You’re right, no need to continue this. We’ve already used more than enough space here enlightening absolutely no one.

Every single thread…

" the ”as is” being referred to is the step of the sale process known as the offer. "

No. An offer is a proposal to enter into a contract which, when accepted by the seller, becomes the contract. When an offer includes a contingency, the contingency is an escape hatch to terminate the offer. Thus, the contract ends. If the contingency is waived or negotiated and the sale closes, the conveyance happens with the real estate "as is" but for whatever was in the contingency if relevant and dealt with separately.

"As is" is a legally prescribed feature of all real estate contracts. "As is" means as existing, no warranties or guarantees. This is different from other types of contracts and property sales under the UCC for which warranties even if not stated or negotiated still apply. I mentioned one example above. .

The terms matter, the technicalities matter. You continue to repeat what you assume to be the case in ways that do not suggest you have any technical knowledge of the subject.

I'm not a lawyer but I took a class on commercial law and had to pass a national test on the subject ages ago as part of my professional license. I'm now retired but contract law hasn't changed much over the years. And I stayed at the Holiday Inn Express last night.

I would very much welcome a lawyer to step in and add any clarity needed.

" the ”as is” being referred to is the step of the sale process known as the offer. "

No.

YES. I am not disputing any of your technicalities, but they do not change what is “being referred to” when people talk about buying or selling a house as is. While I can’t compete with your resume, impressive as always, I’ll confidently stand my ground knowing the nation’s fourth largest mortgage lender agrees with me:

https://www.chase.com/personal/mortgage/education/finding-a-home/buying-a-house-as-is

The above comments and assumptions are precisely the reasons people really do need a seasoned and knowledgeable Realtor to guide them in one of the most expensive transactions they will likely ever be involved in. The real estate agreement in the California Ass'n of Realtors forms does state (unless otherwise negotiated) that a property is taken "as is", and whether there are or are no contingencies that does not stop the buyer from asking for credits or repairs at any point of the transaction. The seller does not need to provide credits or repairs. But of course there are consequences to every decision. The buyer could accept the seller's response, continue trying to negotiate, or walk away from the transaction (the latter if the buyer still has an inspection contingency). And then, of course, if the buyer removes all contingencies and then defaults, and there's a liquidated damages clause, the seller May be able to recover the buyer's initial deposit. But it's not guaranteed. Lots of moving parts.

I've seen buyers continue negotiating until the end, sometimes putting the seller in a bad position. Hopefully, this won't be one of those cases. Best success Lars!

@The Duran Reed Firm - Legalese aside, if a buyer comes and says they’d like to make an offer “as is”, does that tell you anything about the nature of their offer?

You're hinting at what is an offer with no inspection contingencies? That's not legaleze. If you think your preferred "language" is a parallel to "legaleze", don't use the words offer or contingency or "as is". These are all terms of art, "Legaleze".

@foodonastump If a buyer says they want to buy a property "as is", that's just one aspect of the total offer. Transactions can sometimes change during the escrow. So they might say they are buying "as is", the contract may say the sale of the property is "as is", but things can change and the buyer may nevertheless ask for repairs or credits. Case in point, the standard purchase agreement form comes with the "As is" clause, BUT, there is also a commonly used form that is called a Buyer's Request for Repairs. Thus, it is already foreseen that despite the "as is" clause in the purchase agreement, the buyer may seek credits or repairs. It's all part of negotiations which may continue during transaction so the experience of whom you hire to represent you is very important.

So they might say they are buying "as is", the contract may say the sale of the property is "as is", but things can change and the buyer may nevertheless ask for repairs or credits.

If we dissect this just a bit, you’re talking about an offer that begins “as is” but may change from being “as is” during the process. “Change” being your word, thus implying that there is indeed a difference between as is and not as is. Thank you very much.

When I sold my last house, there were a number of issues with it known to me. Some were obvious, some less obvious. I made no representations as to the condition of the house. The buyer knew this. He did not order an inspection. He made me an offer as is, and paid me that amount as soon as his financial backing came through. I would call this selling my house “as is”. Had he asked for a single repair or price adjustment for a defect along the way, I would not use this term to describe the sale. I doubt any reasonable person would question what I mean. But if they did, I could refer them to the Chase page linked above. It addresses my exact scenario, an ”as is” sale to a flipper.

When I sold my parents' home (in New York), I had no first-hand knowledge of most of the answers to the questions on the required disclosure paperwork.

I asked the realtor if it made sense to note the house was being sold "as is" - because I had zero interest in making any repairs. She said no, because in NY (or at least our area of NY ) she said putting "as is" in the actual listing made people think the lister was aware of major defects and wasn't interested in fixing them.

She said no matter whether you specifically note the listing as "as is" or not, it didn't legally change anything about the process. She said people would still ask for credits or repairs, and that I was still free to say yes or no to whatever was asked. She said it was her opinion that adding "as is" to a listing added no positive value whatsoever.

I also did not stay at a Holiday Inn last night.

Ally De - You were the seller. The listing only gives an indication of what type of offers the seller wishes to entertain. Even the listing price is just a suggestion. People are free to make whatever offer they wish.

From the buyer‘s side though, making an offer ”as is” states that this is your offer, and your offer is not contingent on things like making repairs or allowances for things that come up in an inspection. It's one thing beyond increasing the dollar amount that the buyer can do to make their offer more attractive to the seller.

I don't disagree with your agent that listing a house as is can raise red flags. Nothing from what you’ve said leads me to think it’d have been a good idea to list it as is.

But that’s nether here nor there. What is being argued here is whether or not there’s a such thing as buying house as is, that differs from the conventonal home sale. I say there is, and have offered as evodence a web page from the world's largest financilal instiitituon, the nation's fourth largest mortgage lender, that discusses EXACTLY what I'm talking about in the terms I've used. Wuat it is, the pros and the cons.

At this point I suggest we leave it up to the readers to look at the link if interested, and decide if they think Chase would have published that article if there was no practical meaning to the term.

We received the money for the house in our bank accounts two days ago (July 9), and so it is all over now, and the house is up for rent. As I believe I said somewhere above, the buyer (who lives three doors down) was buying our house for his two sons, who are around 8 to 10 years old now, I think, and he wants to rent it out as income property before he is ready to give the house to them.

We have an appointment next Thursday with an investment advisor in Palm Springs who is going to help us with investing the money that we received. I don't think we will have to pay capital gain tax, if we get to deduct our purchase price from the sale proceeds. We will have to see a tax accountant next year to figure out how to do our income taxes.

I am making a list of what improvements I want to do on our current house, but it really does not need anything, since I've already renovated both bathrooms and the kitchen. We do need to drain the pool and have it bead blasted, but I do not think that will be terribly expensive. The water does need to be changed, and there is a light in the spa that needs to be fixed. The one thing I can think of that I want is a generator that would provide power in case of outage, and I have not shopped for that yet.

Congratulations, Lars. I hope you find this next stage of life both rewarding and peaceful - while keeping all that delightful creativity!

Glad the sale went smoothly and that the stress is off your shoulders. Hope you learn to love being in the desert full-time. I couldn't handle the heat, personally, but I have lots of acquaintances that love hot climates.

Congratulations Lars and choose your investments wisely, you don't have another life time to make back losses from high risk promising high rewards.

Congratulations Lars! Nothing like money in the bank, and investing it sounds like a grand idea. So glad it went smoothly.

Or you could buy a summer home in a cooler state, stay there for the summer and rent it out during the winter.

So happy to read it's all a done deal.

CONGRATS!!! Great idea to be seeing the investment advisor.

Is t it fun tosee the total in your bank account take a huge jump like that? Woo hoo. Yes, invest wisely.

It's for sure a different way of thinking to presume that small kids more than a decade away from adulthood would 1) want and need a place to live in the area, and 2) would find the house suitable for their needs.

If it's a hedge to have enough funds at a later date to help buy something else or somewhere else, that's different. I think many parents more often hope to prepare their children for successful lives as adults wherever that journey takes them. Without restrictions or assumptions as to location.

I've decided against any more real estate investment. We bought the house in Cathedral City thinking we could rent it as STVR, but the city banned STVRs shortly after we closed, and so we had to use it as our own vacation home, which was okay because we could afford it then, but now we want to do something different.

We should have plenty of money now to take whatever vacations we want. We do plan to start taking summer vacations, but we do not want to go to the same place all the time. If we need to get away from the heat, all we have to do here is drive up into the mountains, and the temperatures will be 30 to 40 degrees cooler. Indian Vista is less than an hour from our house, and the drive is very scenic going up Mt San Jacinto. We are also not far from Big Bear Lake, which has a lake at 6,752 feet, and is an hour and 44 minutes from our house - perhaps a bit far for a day trip, but still doable. It might get crowded in the summer, but it is mainly a ski resort.

If we were going to go somewhere for the entire day, I would bring the plants indoors.

Another place I'd like to visit is Crater Lake in Oregon.

I know you know your local geography. It can get hot up at Big Bear and Lake Arrowhead in the summer. The coast nearest you will often (but not always) be cooler than those mountain places.

Lars, so happy to read you’ve received fhe proceeds from the sale and the planning for the next phase has begun. Vacation planning will be fun, and it’s a great idea to consult a financial and tax advisor for your other concerns. Having some extra cash to make changes to your now-permanent home is a nice bonus.

I know a couple of long-time real estate agents who invested several years ago in a couple of smaller homes in their own neighborhood as rental property for now and for their kids for later if they chose to live there. The neighborhood has made some dramatic increases in value since then so either way it was a smart decision.

Glad it's all finished Lars! We are thankful to have both a financial advisor and a tax accountant. Glad you are going that route.

Here's a weather report for the Palm Springs Tramway Mountain Station, which is very easy for us to get to, if we want a change in weather. I had said that the weather at Big Bear Lake would be 30 to 40 degrees less than what it is in Palm Springs, and so if it is 120 in Palm Springs, then it would be 90 to 80 at Big Bear, which is still hot but also much cooler than 120.

Anyway, we do have options that are easily accessible for different weather.

I lived within 3 miles of the beach in Los Angeles for 35 years, and so I'm very familiar with that climate as well. For 15 years I lived less than a mile from the beach in Venice. I can't say that I'm happy to have left L.A., but it really is not necessary for me to be there anymore. I just hope that Kevin will be able to find some work here, but it will probably have to be remote, and I think that will be difficult to find.

It's always nice to see money in the bank. I'm happy for you and Kevin that everything went smoothly and now you can relax and plan for the future. It sounds like your location is a perfect base for taking advantage of the various climes in your region.

Congratulations! I'm glad it all went well and that you've got excellent plans for how that money can improve the next phase of your lives.

It's always good to be happy with the results! Your buyer sounds like he's buidling a compound. That sort of creeps me out. Yet I am reminded when my three were kids they too told me they would grow up and buy this house or that in our subdivision. Today when I remind them of that they are not impressed. None of them would come back to this town if those homes were free!! hahahaha

" None of them would come back to this town if those homes were free! "

This is a sign of successful parenting. I congratulate you and your husband (if applicable) for what I assume is the result of giving them the encouragement, confidence and support to follow their dreams and aspirations to wherever they led for positive outcomes.

Where you live and where they live is irrelevant.

I'm happy to read that your closing is over. Cash is always king. It's handy to have your Cathedral City house to use for now. Of course, you could also sell there and choose another location to buy -- or rent. Your brother's work options could dictate that change. How's the RE market in CC, should you decide to sell?

What may be at work here, food, is a cultural influence by these parents whom Lars described as being from Pakistan. A place where it is normal for a "household" to include members of the extended family. Especially grandparents.

There is a large presence in my area of immigrants from an area that I think may be lacking an agreed name - I'll say the Indian Subcontinent intending to include Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and Pakistan as well as India, Muslims from which ever as well as Hindus.

This story is not unlike untold millions of immigrants from other countries over the years. What I've seen among colleagues, friends, their kids and friends of my kids, is that while the immigrants themselves make an effort to retain and follow old country practices, their kids mostly don't want to, to the same extent. While having parents in the house (and coming from the old country) is often practiced by the immigrants themselves, I'm not so sure their kids will be so keen to do that either. US-born kids don't want to follow parental direction as far as education and occupations are concerned (to the same extent), don't want to have arranged marriages, don't want to be restricted as to where they should live, don't want to be restricted to marrying people of the same ethnicity (and don't), and, in a cultural shock to their parents, don't want to continue following restrictive social practices (of Hindus) of limiting friendships and activities to people of the same caste. Yes, caste awareness exists among these people.

So, while the parents think their purchase will facilitate the equivalent of a form of a family compound or nearness, they may find their kids in later years have other ideas.

Helping kids buy houses when they've stabilized occupationally is often a must. I'm not sure investing in residential real estate is the best way to park the money until it's needed.

Congratulations on the sale of your home, Lars.

I've thought about selling the Cathedral City house in order to move to a different location, but all that I've found in Palm Springs that meets my requirements for size are in northern Palm Springs, which is undesirable (less desirable than Cathedral City) due to excessive wind and higher crime rates. I've also looked in other CC locations and have not found anything that interests me.

I think the buyers of our house in L.A. are a bit more sophisticated than the usual Pakistani immigrants, as I have been in their house down the street when it was for sale several years ago, and it is ultra modern, unlike the house across the street from us that has Pakistani residents, including a wife who still wears saris. I think the new owner wanted an income property that is close to his own house, to make it easier to manage. Whether his two sons will ever want to live in it is another question. If they decide to go to Loyola Marymount University, then it would be a good place for them. If they go to UCLA, it would be a more difficult commute, even though it is only 9 miles.

Lars, something might be coming up in Indio, would you have any interest in that area? I don’t know the property, just a friend’s family member’s home.

Thanks bpath, but I don't think we can handle another move at this time, although most of our stuff is still in boxes.

Indio is not really in the area we want to live. I think Cathedral City is as far from Palm Springs as we wanted to consider. We are just 10 minutes from PS at the moment, but Indio would put us at least half an hour away, and that's using the freeway.

Does their house have a pool and spa? We were never considering anything without a pool.

I don’t know what the property is like, and I don’t think the house will be on the market for a little while yet. I don’t believe there is a pool. You’re right, Indio is a bit far.

Lars, how much are they asking for the rent on your old home? I am just curious about the market in CA.

5100

Well that explains a cousin renting a garage as a room for $2000 in CA. Yikes!

I hope that is a luxurious garage for $2000 a month.

Since my house is close to Loyola Marymount University, I was thinking that a group of four students could rent it. Two bedrooms are relatively small (but adequate), and the master bedroom could easily accommodate two beds, although they would have to go in front of windows. Otherwise, a family with two incomes could rent it. I would not want to have to pay $5,100.00 a month rent for it, although it is a very nice house, and it has high end appliances. We also left our teak outdoor dining table with four teak dining arm chairs in the pergola, which I considered an extra, but we did not have room for that here, as we already have a nice outdoor dining table with six chairs.

Eye opening (for me) discussion of rents. I realize housing costs are much higher on the west and east coasts, however, I think the $2500/month my son pays for a small, relatively safe and nice one bedroom apartment in Chicago is expensive. I guess I should appreciate our lower housing costs in the Midwest.