Here is an image of the Hammerhead full shower trim - not tub-shower trim. The diverter appears to be on the neck of the rain shower head, which leads me to conclude their valve isn’t going to work for a tub shower (but I’m not confident that that’s correct either). Also, I can’t reach my shower head so this would not work for me.

I confirmed with the company, Hammerhead diverter is only on the shower head, so not a viable option. I’m assuming I can use any shower head I want, but it looks like all the rest of the pieces will have to be Symmons. Again, any advice would be wecomed.

I have been looking at California Faucets for my next remodel. This brand has a wide array of options that would fit your needs, but maybe not your budget. An example is CF Model KT07-48.FR-PC. They are all brass fittings. There is an option for a plastic body on the hand shower head. That is, you can switch out components of a package to customize to your preferences.

Edited to add that the model I suggested does not have a slide bar for the showerhead, but this one does CF Model KT06-47.FR-PC. There are lots of choices, depending on whether you want lever handles or crossbars, traditional or contemporary style.

Thank you!! I will check them out.

@kevin9408, very very helpful. I’ve been checking out California Faucets. Heading over to Moen now. Last night I was looking at Grohe and this piece. It has far better reviews than the corresponding Kohler (which appears to be junk) but there are some complaints about it as well.

Kohler -- I have Kallista (high end of Kohler) faucets and shower controls in my guest bathroom. The Kohler fittings are metal -- mostly zinc -- not very durable. It is easy to get replacement parts for them (Fergusons), and the local plumbers know how to repair them. To get more than one outlet with Kohler, you need three separate control valves, each with its own trim and rough-in (thermostatic, volume, and diverter) -- so the valves take up a lot of space on the wall.

Hansgrohe / Axor -- I have these showerheads in two bathrooms (installed in 2015). I have read that they have a lot of plastic in their components, but so far, no problems. The fixed Hansgrohe showerhead is installed too high for me to reach it to change the spray pattern or re=position it without standing on a ladder. So, the 3 different spray patterns on it is not helpful. I like that the Hansgrohe handheld has a push-button to easily change the spray patterns but wish that I had installed it on a slide bar.

I mixed Kohler and Hansgrohe fittings in the guest shower -- they look different, but not that noticeable. It is more noticeable in the primary bathroom where I used Samuel Heath for the shower controls, Hansgrohe for the wall-mounted shower heads, and Jaclo for the rain head. A designer helped me with the selections, so not exactly how I had visualized it. (Note: the bright round circle over the rain head is a reflection from a solar tube -- see photo below).

The rubber showerhead faces on Hansgrohe are easy to keep clean, That Jaclo rain head has a metal face, which is a challenge to clean.

Samuel Heath fittings (from England) are fantastic, but I cannot find a local plumber who can handle even simple repairs (change a cartridge) on them. So, for my next remodel, I am avoiding fittings made in Europe (Dornbracht, Fantini). Axor is no longer made in Germany -- mostly from China.

Rubinet -- I like the bold look and colorful options of Rubinet fittings (from Canada), but may be challenging for me to find a local plumber who is willing to read instructions on how to install anything except Kohler or Delta.

Jaclo is another brand I am considering for the shower on the next remodel, after I finish wading through the encyclopedia of CA Faucets.

Thanks @coastal_vibe, that helps. I’ll check out Jaclo as well.

I have been on the Moen site for a few hours already, I’ve been there before, and the reason I don’t buy from them is the web site is awful. I can’t find what I need, it doesn’t tell me which valves go with the trim and nowhere on the site is there an image of the three functions I want. It’s not at all clear what is brass and what is not. It’s their own fault for making 💩 and quality fixtures and selling them under the same brand name.

You know what would be helpful is a diagram that shows what has to be the same brand, and where I can mix brands.

I got to agree with out Earn44, Moen's site is a horror. It's better to go to a plumbing supply outlet and browse through their web site.

"the [Moen] web site is awful. I can’t find what I need"

Here ya go, the complete set:

• Moen 8343 Posi-Temp Pressure Balanced Tub and Shower Trim with Shower Head, Hand Shower, Slide Bar and Tub Spout from the M-DURA Collection (Valve Included)
• Moen 8343 Specifications

Moen offers only a pressure-balanced system for the shower and not a thermostatic valve. They have Exact-Temp (thermostatic valve), which they are discontinuing. A thermostatic valve (more $$) allows controlling temperature and volume separately. With pressure balance, you get just a trickle if you want cold water, but full force if you select the hottest temp setting.

I was at Ferguson's today picking up a cartridge for my kitchen sink filtration system. The shop was crowded with plumbers -- so I asked them for their preferences on brands. There was uniform agreement that they prefer Moen or Delta over other brands -- easy to get the parts needed for repairs.

I had an appointment with a salesperson in the Ferguson showroom. They pulled a switcharoo on me, saying the person with whom I had scheduled was unavailable today. The salesperson they offered is clearly new at this. When I explained that the shower controls would be installed on a pony wall, opposite the shower heads, he asked if the pony wall would extend full height to the ceiling. (Sort of like a novice waiter asking if you want your sushi well-done.)

The novice salesperson said CA Faucets and Jaclo are pricey junk (they carry CA Faucets but not Jaclo in their showroom). He steered me toward Newport Brass and Brizo -- both of which I have seen receive poor reviews here. I explained that I was going for a traditional decorative look -- and then he showed me contemporary minimal designs from Kohler and Axor. I had planned to ask for a quote on CA Faucets, but he was so negative about it, I left without getting any quotes.

There is one other plumbing store near me that carries CA Faucets, so my next trip is to go back there. I want a thermostatic valve, so that rules out Moen. On Delta/Brizo, I do not like their clunky valve trim.

The photo below is of Kohler's new contemporary line of shower valve trims. I found disappointing reviews of this product, and not sure how it would look with traditional style faucets.

Thanks @wdccruise - I will check it out. It’s so hard to know what you’re getting with them, but it’s a relief to find what I’ve been searching for in Moen. I can’t tell if it is good Moen or bad Moen or mostly zinc, but at least now I have something to search.

@coastal_vibe, I really wanted that Kohler thermostatic valve to work for me for so many reasons, not least that it would have hidden the three handle area where I will now be missing tile 😂. But even I cannot rationalize the negative reviews on that fixture (2.3 stars out of 5). FWIW, it is often installed incorrectly, which means their installation instructions are not great, but if a pro cannot look at the info and install it so that it works, Kohler needs to go back to the drawing board on that one.

That Kohler Anthem led me to the Grohe Grohtherm 3 function I show above and here. Thermostatic control and diverter all in one. I like the simplicity, but it’s got some plastic parts (the dials) and there are some complaints about them. Still the reviews give it a 4.6/5.

Newport Brass, Brizio, Delta, and Hansgrohe are all owned by Brasstech Inc/Masco but it is rated above average to very good on the Starcraft Custom Builders site. I looked there too, I think I’m on overload.

If it’s not too much of a chore, please keep me posted on your search. Thanks.

"... it would have hidden the three handle area where I will now be missing tile"

What does that mean? If you are pulling out tile from a tub/shower wall, then that will likely compromise the waterproofing behind it. Or, are you saying that you will be removing the valves (trims and rough-ins) and that will leave an empty (untiled) space in the wall?

When I had my tub spout replaced, it was done from the other side of the wall, so no tile was pulled out.

The second thing! I will be removing the valves and handles from the three handle set up that will leave an empty, mostly untiled space in the wall. The Kohler installed there would have been the perfect size to cover that up.

My tub spout will just be pulled and replaced with a new one, but these other shower/diverter valves require that I will have to remove the existing, waterproof and tile it, then install the valve about 8-10” above the tub spout.

I found more negative reviews of the Grohe. I’m just about ready to forget the hand shower and buy something all metal with an integrated diverter and call it a day.

You might consider the Hansgrohe Croma Thermostatic Showerpipe with Tub Filler. I have a similar Hansgrohe Showerpipe but without the tub filler. Except for the required Hansgrohe Basic Set (with no moving parts), everything is outside the wall so if anything needs repair or replacement, the wall doesn't have to be opened up.

Thanks @wdccruise Looking now.

I really like it, it has a dozen 5 star reviews and I found it for $200 less on another site. I couldn’t really see the tub spout but I’ve found a better pic. This might be a great solution!

I know this might sound ridiculous but I might even be able to replace their hand shower with the hammerhead hand shower I wanted. I an very excited about this possibility. Thanks very much!

Be careful! There are Hansgrohe showerpipe models that don't have the tub filler that look very similar. Also, the Hansgrohe 27143 is available with two finishes, chrome and brushed nickel, at very different prices.

"I might even be able to replace their hand shower with the hammerhead hand shower"

Try the included hand shower first. Mine works fine and has three settings.

Understood. And I’m reading more reviews too. And I like chrome although it seems to be the ugly stepchild of faucet finishes. Got another cool pic

The showerpipe is great, but then you're also removing your tub filler and your shower arm and will have to more holes, which is fine if you're rebuilding the whole shower but it seems like you're just patching the tile (I'd be really worried about proper waterproofing doing this). Definitely go with a thermostatic valve - it's really lovely never to have to adjust the valve as the hot water runs out. I would do this Ecostat Classic Shower mixers: 2-handle, designed to run 1 outlet, Chrome, Art. no. 15752001 (hansgrohe-usa.com) and this hansgrohe Shut-off and diverter valves: Ecostat Classic, Diverter Trim Trio/Quattro, Art. no. 15934001 (hansgrohe-usa.com). This way you get a thermostatic valve, a volume control (on one trim) and a three-way divertor to cover the tub, showerhead and handshower. There ARE a few manufactures who combine all of that into one trim, but that is done by stacking the volume control with the thermostatic valve, which ends up being bulky and fiddly. If you prefer this concept, ROHL sells a ton of different ones like this. As an example: ROHL Graceline 1/2 Inch Thermostatic & Pressure Balance Trim with 3 Functions (No Share) with Lever Handle - Polished Chrome | Model Number: TMB47W1LMAPC - House of Rohl

@nexp, Excellent points. And the Rohl fixtures are really beautiful. Any thoughts on shared vs no share functionality? Is that what it sounds like (one function at a time)?

Shared lets you have two adjoining functions “on” at the same time. It’s unlawful in California. I don’t care for it for three way, and prefer separate volume controls for devices that need to be in simultaneously. It’s fiddly as theres 6 stopping points around the dial and one function is gradually turned off as you pass the midway point. Non-share means one at a time.

"Any thoughts on shared vs no share functionality?"

The Hansgroher Showerpipe prevents sharing but I don't know why one would want to run the rain shower and hand shower simultaneously even if it did.

I don’t know if you’ve settled yet but the California faucet thermostatic valve is a great product- have two in my shower. Honestly I look for plastic wands- the metal ones are heavy and I don’t want to drop them and risk chipped tile or toes! They use standard threads so you can swap brand to brand and chrome is one of the

Hi @HALLETT & Co., thanks for weighing in! I haven’t pushed the purchase button yet and I could take another look at Cal Shower. I was having a difficult time figuring out what I would need. One of the most appealing things about that showerpipe is all you have to buy is that and the valve. It’s completely clear what you need. I want the plumber to be able to come and do his thing, not have to come back because i got the wrong stuff. Am I the only one that finds this difficult? 😟

Yes! I have no idea what to order (I’m exaggerating a tad) this is why I rely on the professionals in my local plumbing supply. They ‘build’ showers all the time. There must be an independent plumbing supply near you. This is not something I would ever buy online.

There’s a really good place, Edelman plumbing supply, all the plumbers go there. They are not great at dealing with non-plumbers. I don’t know if you’ve ever seen the Seinfeld episode with the ”No soup for you” joke but it’s kind of like that. You wait in line and you’re expected to know what you need when you get to the front. I tried going there 2 years ago for this same issue. 😂

Can you make an appointment? My plumbing supply used to be like this- super intimidating. The son (now owner) was always super helpful and willing to explain everything. They have since added a big showroom etc that is clearly aimed at consumers.

"I could take another look at Cal Shower. I was having a difficult time figuring out what I would need."

1. Browse to build.com.
2. In the left-hand menu select a Flow Rate.
3. In the left-hand menu select a Hand Shower Function.
4. In the left-hand menu select a Handle Style.
5. Click on one of the displayed shower systems.
6. Select a finish.
7. Add the required Shower Valve.
8. Complete the purchase.

Yeah, it doesn’t work as well as you think. But thanks to all of you for all of your efforts.

"Yeah, it doesn’t work as well as you think."

Hmmm? I followed my procedure and could have bought one.

Update: I finally ordered something! We’ll all have to stay tuned to see how it works out. I ordered from Quality Bath and got 20% off a Jaclo shower system (looked at them because of @coastal_vibe despite the review from the California Faucets guy). Here’s how I finally made my decision.

First, where to buy. I did actually call the local plumbing supply store 3 times. Then I looked based on which online retailer carried the brands I was searching for. Ultimately I chose Quality Bath because they had both Rohl and California Faucets systems I was looking at. Both were priced around $2500 by the time you add tax. Rohl was included in their 20% off sale, CF was not.

I would have been very happy with either of these, I want good quality components and I don’t want to have to do this again. That said, I don’t intend to grow old in this house. I looked at the Starcraft Custom Builder’s reviews. CF is one of three best value choices in American Luxury faucets. I found Jaclo among the three best value choices for American Mid Priced faucets.

I had to choose my components myself because Quality Bath is closed on Fridays, so I’m not sure I ordered correctly, but they do say their salespeople look over each order and will let you know if you made a mistake. The 20% off sale ends tonight (I hate the pressure but as this choice was already somewhat price driven, it made sense). Here’s what I chose, plus the valve, handshower, hose, water source elbow, tub spout, shower arm and showerhead, wall bar. Including tax I’m at about $1500.

The quality bath sales are perpetual. I’ve ordered from them many times. The dates on the sales just keep auto-advancing. Also if you call/email they’ll usually offer an even better price.

Really? OK, now I feel a little silly. Great tip @nexp. I’ll give them a call on Monday. If you’ve ordered from them many times I hope that means they are good to work with.

I really like updates in other peoples’ posts, so here’s a brief update on mine. I did get a call and email from Quality Bath this week because I had duplicated an item. I got a Jaclo box in the post Thursday. Here’s what I got. It’s all quite pretty. The tub spout is backordered. In the meanwhile I have a second cart with items for the primary shower.

I like the parts that I’ve opened, although honestly I’m trying to keep it all together till the plumber can install it. So far nothing is made of plastic and those hex cross handles are heavy and really beautiful. I like the polished nickel, I just hope I don’t feel like I’m constantly fussing over it as we do have hard water. I’m told the key is wiping it down with a microfiber cloth.

Everything arrived well packaged. One thing I will say is the sales people at QB are not necessarily super knowledgeable about plumbing. They did catch my order mistake, but when I asked about a screw on vs. slip on tub spout I got no info. And I may have ordered the wrong one. More later.

Just sharing my thoughts on Symmons. I have replaced three bathrooms with Symmons. I seem to get talked into Symmons by the plumbers because they are easy to install and parts are easy to find. The outside trim - they look OK, but not rich; their chrome color is dark and doesn't match any other brand that I have found. You have to get a Symmons front valve plate, the outside part you see on the wall, if you get a Symmons valve. But the part I dislike the most is that the water temperature control is not at at all sensitive, it is not gradual. You keep turning the handle and it goes from cold to hot - nothing in between. It has been this way on all three of my remodels, in 3 different places. I wish I had bought another brand.