@ Leo Blur

Where ARE you in this project?!

By that......I mean status......progress......pictures.

First I want to apologize all our friends on Houzz - especially Jan, Kendrah and all of you who have been teaching us and cheering us on to make progress. Sorry being out of it - tough last few months - had to wait for the frogs and locusts to pass by…

@Jan Moyer - thank you so much for not giving up on us and for checking in to keep us going… and of course for all the ingenuous tetris design options. We want to make them happen! Update you asked…

Bath: One bit of good news on progress of BR is our condo board approved your plan A - the best design that can give us the largest sink - 48 inches wide (we even found double sink at that width) - will send picture.

But we learned from you “every inch counts”! Up in the air about a few things: How to separate the bathtub from washer without having tiny spaces we can’t clean in between wall and sliding glass shower door? And where to put some grab bars for safety?

We found the tub Kendrah has - low cast iron (basically a high curb)- not sure if the wall can directly be built to the side of the tub to separate it from washer and dryer since the tub edge is round?

Kitchen: we did pay extra to charge the plumbing so we can follow the design you made. More later after stupidus maximus find out how to attach photo above.

The design of the year “stuff an elephant in your purse” award going to @Jan Moyer (Double sink included)!

@Kendrah, Thank you so much for all the great inspiration photos - we can only think in 3D and most of all for being on team Leo (even if just about dishwasher) to keep us going. As I said to Jan, very sorry for the hibernation - a lot happened - not intended but no choice.

To answer your good question - we are splurging on the Miele ventless stacked WD and here are the model number for all interested in a small but powerful WD.
WWD160 WCS
TWD 360 WP
Dimension(see photo) is only approx 24 in wide and 26 inch deep and stacked about 71 inches with a pullout shelf in between. Our friends love it and we tested it. What do you think?

Here is the washer dryer @Kendrah.

Whoa Nellie!!!

You will have no COUNTER TOP!!!

You get something like this

Vanity,+ UNDER MOUNT sink+.....= room to set something down!!!

I can't yell : ) but I might.

Go back to this."

I forget you DON'T know what I assume you know!!

You do not really want two sinks in a 48 inch space with nearly zero SPACE to set down anything!

More like this?

https://www.kitchenbathcollection.com/collections/48-inch-bathroom-vanities/products/hailey-48-inch-bathroom-vanity-carrara-marble

Your kitchen and bath place should be able to do very similar!!

But really , one sink is plenty! Click the lin

https://www.kitchenbathcollection.com/collections/48-inch-bathroom-vanities/products/hailey-48-inch-bathroom-vanity-carrara-marble

Thanks so much Jan! Yes, assume nothing as we know less than Nellie! The one you sent looks great.

The reason we looked at this one is because we put so much clutter on surfaces - junk that just won’t go away - -trying to down size and not clutter by forcing ourselves to have not place to put things in this tiny space.

Also because the place is so tiny, they are recommending radiant heated floor. Thoughts on that? Or questions about separation from tub to washer dryer? Where to place grab bars?

Going from a “cluttered” vanity top to “no place to put a comb down” is just impractical. Please listen to Jan. Change the vanity to her suggestion.

Yes......to a radiant heated floor.

You MUST, when able, ditch the crap you do not need. Fix some bad habits, or despite the money? The visual result will be less than hoped for, and the horrible inconveniences will remain. Worse? It is truly to telegraph "We are old people". We need everything at hand, in front of our faces!."

No......you. don't.

Cancel the stupid sink top, please?: ) Come back with a to the fraction of an inch drawing of the bath and plumbing locales. Every inch.

If you can't get it? Get the lazy ass contractor to please do it.

Is the shower a fiberglass contraption? Or are you tiling? What if anything......IS IT?

Another vote for a single sink in your bathroom. Also the LG washer dryer tower is very nice and compact and the controls are all in the middle. If one is on the shorter side the controls at the top of the stacked dryer are hard to see/use.

Also, if you can plan for the water shutoff for the washing machine to be accessible from the back - that would be ideal. Your layout may not make this possible but if it can be easily accommodated you might be grateful someday should a leak be detected.

@Leo Blur wonderful to hear from you again and see your plan evolving.

Washer / Dryer - I'm glad you got to test the unit and like it. What did you wash and dry in the load you tested? I recently stayed in a place with a Bosch ventless washer dryer and the drying took so long that we decided to get a good drying rack and only use the washer. Be sure you use design the space to the maximum clearances available around the unit so they function better.

Gap between wall and tub - Are you using a shower curtain or adding glass that sits on top of the tub? Will the tub side of this wall be finished with tile and you envision water hitting the wall, rolling down the wall, and going over some kind of bridge so it can then roll into the tub? Someone with more tub construction knowledge than I should brainstorm this need.

Would something like this be useful?

link

Double sink - Please don't do a double sink. Do a single sink and create good storage for your clutter. For aging in place you really want adequate counter space to place things. Looking up and down, reaching and moving back and forth multiple times while completing one activity is going to increase the risk of falling. You want space so you can get out whatever you need, set it on the counter, complete you activity and then put it away. You can learn to do this. Just be intentional everyday for two weeks - make a very conscious habit of not leaving things on the counter. Suddenly you will be able to not junk up the place.

Grab bars - Place a vertical bar at the entry to the shower. This is what you will hold on to with one hand while the other leans in to turn on the water. It is also what you can grab on to with two hands and you step over the tub edge to get in and out.

Place horizontal bar across the whole long wall of the tub/shower. This allows you to steady yourself at any place in the entire length of the tub/shower.

Never install grab bars based on a prescribed suggestion of height or on ADA guidelines. This is your home and the height should be designed based on your and your wife's heights.

Are you and your wife similar heights? Do your hands hit a similar place when grasping for things?

A vertical entry bar will enable both of you to use it. A lot of venders sell very short bars for this area. Don't get a stubby little bar. Get a long one so you can each grasp at the height that is right for you.

For the horizontal bar, you will have to compromise on height placement so find a grasping height that will be workable for each of you.

This is the bathroom we designed for my parents in a guest studio down the hall from our apartment. My dad is 6'1. My mom is shrinking - maybe 5'5 now. They can both easily place hands on the vertical bar. We horizontal bar is a bit lower than where we would place it if it were just my Dad using it. But it is perfect height for my mom and still usable by my dad.

They also happen to make excellent clothes drying racks! I can place two hangers on the vertical bar.

Don't know if you are using glass or a curtain. My curtain conceals the grab bars well and you would never know they are there until you open the curtain.

Thank you @RedRyder. Good to see you again - and completely agree - @JAN MOYER is always right!

This is my fault - because of my messy habit, I always get water on the counter next to the sink and making everything wet - so vanity counter next to the sink is not a good place to put anything for us (not for others who are neat).

We were hoping to put our things on open shelf or in the medicine cabinet above the sink or open shelf on the side - since there is a significant amount of space above the sink and behind the wall. But that's a design issue to think about soon...

Thank you @thinkdesignlive. Welcome. Yes, we did see the LG and it is very nice - less expensive as well. But it is at least 27 inches wide and more than 33 in deep. Since "every inch count" @JAN MOYER's teaching, we opted for this one - it last longer and have less service needs.

Your advice about assess in the back is a very good one and if there is a way, it would be better. But the W/D will be blocked on both side (left side BR door and right side tub at the bottom 14 inches), so not sure if anyone have a good idea to access it?

Leo. You are one of a kind. That is for sure. Add recessed shelves on the wall above the trough - I mean sinks, all the way across between wall studs.

Not having acess to shut off valves and hoses is a PITA but pretty common for apartment stackable WD. Be sure to have a good pan for the floor and install a leak detection automatic shut off system.

For access after it is installed you will need to close the door and pull the unit out. Make sure the door knob does not prevent you from doing this.

@JAN MOYER - Can you check out this link and comment. Your skills are needed and I always love seeing how you take on a kitchen challenge. Plus, the OP is looking for a harsh critique, so who else comes to mind :) .https://www.houzz.com/discussions/6491596/fix-this-kitchen#n=14 

@JanMoyer

So so sorry something went wrong and yours and Kendrahs messages from 4/13 just appeared! We thought you gave up on us :( Thank you for not giving up on us!!!

— ok will go with radiant floor heat if you all think it’s good
— Nellie’s still like the trough sink as Kendrah ncalls it :) but will cancel.
— Will come back with napkin dimensions in next message
— shower wall will need to be tiled (will show porcelain choices we picked)
— splurged on the cast iron tub Kendrah showed
https://techcomm.kohler.com/techcomm/pdf/K-837_spec_US-CA_Kohler_en.pdf

@Kendrah

So sorry for we just got your 4/13 message. Hope you have a good holiday. Thank you so much for the photo of your beautiful bathroom, inspiration photos and the great advice - we need it - we really have trouble visualizing just floor plans - we can only think in 3D :(

— yes - ventless takes much longer than vented but we got no choice

— appreciate the grab bar advice - I’m 5’11 shrinking- wife 5’3

— we got that cast iron tub you recommended - it will be a sliding glass door above the tub and a panel separating the tub from the washer dryer- thoughts from you and Jan and others?

We want to make sure we can clean the space in between by having sliding glass door on both side - thoughts?

https://techcomm.kohler.com/techcomm/pdf/K-837_spec_US-CA_Kohler_en.pdf

Here is the exact dimensions (as exact as I can) you asked @Jan Moyer - with ceiling height about 9 feet in the bathroom

Top is the floor plan and bottom is the approx placement of where your best design (also attached) was to give room to everything and more!!!

We love your design but can’t visualize in 3D. There is also a bulkhead above the shower head and washer dryer for duct approx 8 inch out and at least 14 inch deep… so how to place shower head at that end etc? Advice?

@Jan Moyer @Kendrah - Just saw the link you sent - Kudos for the rescue mission to fix @Jacque Link's kitchen! If only we were as good with 3D drawing as Jacque to show our space :( Sorry to be the remedial class...

it will be a sliding glass door above the tub and a panel separating the tub from the washer dryer

What do you mean by panel? A wall? Made of what?

What is the bulk head duct for? A/C?

I can't remember if you are coop or condo - do you have to get approval for where your drain pipes and supply pipes are located for the washer and tub? Where were they in the bathroom prior to gutting it and where to they go to in the floor below you?

I think he just means a plywood enclose......like on a fridge?

Thanks Kendrah. It will not be a wall as wall cannot be built well and flushed next to the tub you recommended (the tub has curve edge on the side).

So there will be a sliding glass door at the tub. Then a panel will be 1 inch or less thick housing the stacked washer/dryer to provide some separation and also to give a small shelf above the washer driver -I cannot find a photo as well as you do. and can't draw 3D if my life depend on it:(

The bulk head are for duct.

It is condo - the only win from the last few hard month was to get Jan Moyer's design approved. We paid extra to move all plumbing to where @JAN MOYER has drawn. Now it is a clean slate to be exactly as her design above. Thoughts?

Yes exactly what Jan says

Sorry I am always getting message later... my transmission is slow (in every sense of the word)...

Like the panel on the right of this stacked WD - it will be next to the sliding glass door of the tub. Not much choice here - hoping to not leave a space unable to clean in between glass door and tub. But if glass door slides, what's behind can be cleaned (somewhat). Is this why you ask about the exact inches Jan? This is TINY but tricky area - need LOTS of advice!

My rule is if a gap is too narrow to be cleaned by sticking a Swiffer wrapped ruler into the space, or a very long bottle or drain cleaner brush, then it is just not going to get cleaned and that's OK. Water penetration is another issue though. But, it sounds like you will have a glass door, hopefully well sealed, next to the wood panel.

You do as above and worry about something else!!Like getting a place to live in, in THIS LIFETIME.

You routinely have "crap all over the vanity top" and water all over it and you are going to worry about this? Seriously? : )

Thanks very much Kendrah. Agree with you completely about water… the moisture there is hard to handle. We are installing a new fan to connect to outside (yes, we cannot vent washer dryer outside but can the fan can vent outside).

If you or anyone have recommendations for a powerful and quiet overhead bath room vent fan- please let us know… the old one was rather noisy .

@JanMoyer - thanks so much for helping us and teaching us! I think something maybe wrong with this Houzz chat chain - I think you have posted other message today, but I am not seeing it.

Could you kindly resend if you see this message?

I didn't post today...I did post four days ago: ) ?

Was it a "Swiffer cleaning question, or a fan question you asked or need answer?

Go to a good electrical supply, dedicated, not Home Depot. Get a GOOD fan, with light, and they will advise. ...but you don't want less than 70/80 CFM.....

You don't want mildew.

^^No MILDEW and no mold

I highly recommend the Fantech fan/light combination. I have them in my master bathroom, one in the shower and one in the toilet room. They are about 3-4" in diameter, their motors are in the attic, and they are SUPER quiet and remove all moisture/odors quickly. There is NEVER any condensation in the bathroom either during or after a shower.

Thank you so much for letting me know and for not giving up on us. I’m trapped in a time warp just like Houzz do to your messages. Sorry. Just got your message 4 days ago! But there was email notification of your message 3 days ago:(

But good news! The “reconstruction” of the rubbles will finally start this week! Thanks for keeping this crippled 3 legged leo going!

A few Urgent questions for all:

Re: bath- Kendrah sent photo of her beautiful bath. We are using her tub. But can’t place shower safety bar vertically where she has because we will only have a half wall there (example on photo attached)

— please suggest placement of safety grab bars? (Please outline on drawing or send photo)

— the shower head placement under bulk head? How to deal with this? Do we tolerate the bulk head/soffit above the shower head?

— do we tile the entire wall where the tub/sink is at to give a cohesive look? Yes I crap all over the sink and the wall :( so need splash guards and after a 48 inch mirrors cabinet above the sink, there is still place to splash (see 3D photo of approx from a random website)

— please suggest good 3D BR kitchen plan websites so I can show better?

Re: kitchen
— we are getting your sink! It’s great. But for a 27 CAB size (can’t go down to 24) - see how I much learned!
— also getting 24in full size dish washer - sorry we are lazy
— so that leaves very little room for drawer on that wall. We are getting the mobile island with drawer storage you all suggested for extra storage.
-- so to utilize the tiny space better, can we not void the corner ?
— there is at least an extra 3 inches now on the refrigerator side after demo! So a corner 33 inches “lazy Susan cabinet” as shown on the link below is now possible.
— thoughts on lazy Susan? Magic corner 2?

https://www.fabuwood.com/blog/standard-kitchen-cabinet-sizes-and-dimensions/

Thank you so much @JanMoyer - yes mildew and mold is a concern since the shower tub is completely enclosed. Thus the question about tiling the entire wall like this (terrible 3D attempt - all to approximate - left WD; Right 48in mirrored vanity etc)

Thank you so much @Diane Bier Interiors for the fantech light fan combo recommendations.

Are these the ones you are talking about? Apologies for my poor cut and past - it is more than 70/80 CFM.

It comes in 110 and 270 CFM - which one would be good?

I have the 110CFM in my bathroom and installed the same in a client's bathroom.

Thank you so much @Diana Bier. Appreciate the advice. What type of lights did you use for the rest of the bathroom?

I have a bell jar pendant, recessed lights in the entry, and sconces on the vanity walls.

Diana Bier Interiors, LLC · More Info

Thank you so much for sharing @Diana Bier! Your bathroom is absolutely beautiful and very functional - a rare combination. The bell jar light is perfect for the high ceilings. If we had a choice to separate 2 sinks we would do that so I don’t get water all over the counter.

How do you know how many lights you need and where? @Jan Moyer did a wonderful floor plan to squeeze in a stacked washer dryer we wanted - now we are now trying to figure out how many, type and where to put the lights?

We only have a 5x10 primary bath with one window on the south west side (ceiling height about 100 inches) and we have poor eye sight so besides the fan tech light/fan combo, we are hoping to make sure we have sufficient lighting.

Any advice would be appreciated

For Gods sake...where is the contractor?!

Get him to put:

@ 4" led recessed over the vanity. 10"from the wall

Buy this; You mount it on the WALL over the vanity as above.

https://www.shadesoflight.com/products/young-house-love-dapper-bath-light-3-light-1?color=Chrome+

( make sure it clears the mirror and what is THE SIZE of the mirrored medicine!!!

Or OVER THE MIRROR...ON THE WALL

in the 36 inch size

https://www.lightopia.com/Details/VisualComfortStudio-KielBathroomVanityLight/24147/139352?source=froogle&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=&utm_campaign=Standard%20Shopping%20-%20Wall&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwq7fABhB2EiwAwk-YbLzFgZBYVTEnaSTIZHmL0U40a6RIBQLYHC3Zi7bf3bZxDWJDtbepERoC-NcQAvD_BwE#ProductSpecsHeader

Put a 4" recessed over the toilet

Add the fanlight in the middle of the bathroom

GET THIS AT HOME DEPOT

MOUNT IT LEFT OF MIRROR-

SO YOU CAN SEE TO SHAVE

on whichever side allows you to open the medicine cabinet!!

This guy you hired is REALLY ticking me off............: (

@Leo Blur - My vision is very compromised. I deeply understand the need to see well in this space. A well lit space will also help reduce fall risks as you age.

2 four inch recessed lights = hot pink dots

One to illuminate entry into shower and laundry area

One to illuminate general toilet and sink area

Think of these as two separate spaces, each represented as an imaginary square, Center each 4" recess within that square - see dotted lines. This will both provide the correct amout of illumination in the right areas and look balanced in the space

@Diana Bier Interiors, LLC 's quite ceiling fan has a light in it for the shower = yellow square

2 Individual sconces placed above sink area - blue stars

You already have a ton of visual info going on in this sink area. A bar with connected lights is too much of a look. Get individual sconces and place them in this sink area.

Sconce selection

Your ceilings are a little over 8 ft. Not very high. (Ask how I know!) To determine what sconces will fit above your to your sink you need to know how much space you have between the ceiling and shelves/medicine cabinet. It is going to be a bit of a crunch. Especially if you have a 36" high cabinet - which you absolutely should for aging in place. But we can find something for you.

Am I remembering correctly that you will have recessed shelves or a recessed medicine cabinet over the sink? If not, you should. Then you don't have to worry about a shadow from the scones, and you will be able to see much better.

Before you select sconces, you need to know the height of your sink, faucet, and shelves/mirror/cabinet. Your shelves/mirror/ cabinet needs to clear your faucet height if it opens out. The height of the top of your shelves/mirror/ cabinet will determine the space you have above for sconces and what size they can be.

Also, where are you towel hooks or bars and various grab bars going in this bathroom?

I recommend towels over hooks. Much to my surprise they dry a towel faster in a small humid bathroom, and they take up much less wall space. Also, best not to use a towel bar as a grab bar. It actually increases the risk of falling because if you grab a bar with a towel on it, this creates a slippery surface and an unstable grasp.

Friends! My sincere apologies for the delay to thank you for all for keeping us going! A lot happened - but putting one foot in front of the other…

@JAN MOYER - thank you so much for the great advice and detailed placement and the links! The kiel light looks good. Lights are so confusing- thanks for teaching us!

Just to make sure this stupid Leo understands - do we need both recess light above sink and the over medicine cabinet vanity light?

Recessed lighting directly over your head is not flattering. Vanity lights over the mirror or sconces flanking mirrors are more flattering. Recessed lighting elsewhere lights the entire room, the mirror lights are task lights specifically for grooming.

@Diana Bier Interiors - thank you so much for explaining the reason for both lights. Truly appreciate it. We will get sconces above the mirror vanity as there is no room for beautiful side scones like yours.

Question is if the recess lights should be farther away from the mirror as @Jan Moyer kindly advised (closer to the middle of the room) to give lights to washer dryer?

Thoughts about lighted medicine cabinet to fit exactly above sink with some side lights (but not bright enough for grooming) like this one?

@Kendrah - Thank you so much the great advice for this visually challenged Leo! Apologies for not seeing your message until now. So appreciate your diagrams and tips for aging in place.

Lights is something we don’t want to skim for sure. I agree after tiling that sink wall it will be busy; the question is if we get sconce above the vanity and recessed lighting as @JanMoyer kindly advised 10 inches from the wall Or move the overhead recessed light a bit toward the center of the room? Still having @Diana Bier Interiors fan in the middle of the room so the washer/dryer and tub can all benefit from it. The tub will be closed in with panel so either we need 2 fans or have the one fan in the middle of the room?

In that case what you kindly drew would shift a little bit.

— How did you know the ceiling is about 8.5 or more? We have no clue because there is no ceiling - everything is gutted now… I’m very impressed.

— Yes, questions about the shower bar etc - what do you think about shower safety bar across tub like your bathroom and across on half wall?

— Thinking about a niche below the safety bar across the long tub wall - and the shower valve above the it so we can reach it to turn on water before crawling all the way into to shower? Thoughts?