In Zone 9b Southern California, both succeeded well in a minimum of five or so hours of sun daily. That doesn't have to be continuous nor direct. In our increasingly hotter, more brilliant climates, "shade" is a relative term. Generally, plants more suited to shady situations tend to have lighter colored blooms. Lighter colors reflect more light than darker colors so pollinators are more successfully attracted to their flowers. I'd think if your "shade" is bright, over many hours of sun exposure, JC should give the better performance in the "shadier" location. Again, though, "shade" is relative. What someone in a more northerly, cooler area considers "shade" is often much darker and colder than what you consider it in your climate.

For me Jacques Cartier is much better, though doesn't repeat in my shady (sunnier in spring, if it isn't too rainy) yard. I had to remove Rose de Rescht because the "damask crud" on the foliage got too unsightly. I was sad because the specimens in the nursery were beautiful and so fragrant. But my city conditions are a little extreme -- tall buildings and so on. I am surprised sometimes that anything grows here.

I grow both. JC is in full blast sun all day long and loves it's spot. Blooms continuously from late April to November. RdR is in an area that only gets 4 or 5 hrs of direct sun, then tree shaded all afternoon. It does great in it's location. Now, I do spray for disease control every 2 weeks, so both are clean all year. The way I look at it is, if it isn't broke, don't try to fix it better.

Thanks Kim and Monarda, I had a feeling that my feeling that JC would be better in the shadier position would be borne out! The sun is pretty strong here, that spot gets sun from the east, is then completely shaded by the wide trunk of the old tree to the south then gets sun from the west late in the afternoon, maybe 4hrs total. That doesn’t sound much, but I have other roses in less that do fine.

Interesting to hear you grow them the other way around though, Ken, with JC in ’full blast sun’ and RdR in more shade. What is your climate like? how hot do your summers get?

Monarda, sorry to hear of your damask crud, it does look horrible when covered with that. RdR seems to like my climate though and stays mostly clean, no spray. I occasionally see a little crud in late summer, but if I pick off the leaves they grow new ones fast that then stay clean.

NolieSpain----Our summers are hot and humid. July, August and the first part of September will see afternoon temps in the 90 degree range with a few days reaching 100+ degrees and no breeze.

Nollie, you ask a good question. I also have considered Jacque Cartier. I had Rose de Rescht for several years before The Attack of the Killer Voles. It was in both dappled and full shade for a little more than half a day in a garden where roses received very little care from me. It grew well until the voles did it in. It did bloom but was a once bloomer in that spot, maybe because it was shaded by deciduous trees or maybe because I almost never watered it. It had damask crud the first year but afterward was healthy for me. I've thought about replacing it, especially since we lost a lot of trees in the last couple of years, but just haven't done it yet. Our summers are long, hot (90's) and humid, our soil is acidic, dry, poor and rocky. Droughts are common. I don't know if any of this will help you.

Thanks Ken, that’s helpful to know. It sounds as if either can take both part shade and sun.

Karen, yes that’s really helpful too, you make a good point about reblooming capacity in shade/dappled shade. My RdR does currently repeat, but sporadically and it may well do better in slightly more than it currently gets.

My aesthetic considerations are minor really, so I think, on balance, I will put Jacques Cartier in the shadier spot. As Kim says, the paler colours reflect more light so it will hopefully brighten up that spot too.

Thanks everyone for helping me decide, really appreciated!

I garden in high latitude Seattle, where summers aren't usually hot, keeping 75F-82F during the day and cooler at night. My RdR is planted in high shade and only receives about two hours of direct midday sunlight. It repeats less when it's young, but after 4 years it's doing much better, is very healthy, and even has a decent fall flush.

Since most of my garden is in the shade, I've been hunting for shade tolerant roses. This is the first time I've heard that light colored roses do better in the shade. I don't have JC, but my Souvenir de St. Anne's is in a darker corner and can still bloom here and there during the season. Maybe it makes sense!

Both of mine are in part shade and quite well for their conditions I think. Especially RdR which battles really thick japanese maple roots. I highly recommend both but would probably give the edge to RdR

Feiy, thanks, my RdR is about to enter year 4 so maybe its due to hit peak blooming, finger’s crossed! Pale blooms certainly stand out more in the shade, although with my strength of sun it’s usually the purples and reds that need it the most because they fry otherwise.

Thanks Oursteelers, I do love the strong fragrance of RdR and it forms such a lovely rounded shrub.

Hmm, I am now doubting my decision and reconsidering putting RdR in the shadier spot, aagh!