This is a young couple just starting out with a builder

Suggest to the young couple they start their own thread asking for help.

There's a lot of great house designs in the weeds.

Move the door for the Master Bedroom closet. Access the closet through the bedroom, not the bathroom. Avoid steamy clothes.

Pocket door or sliders will save space in the bedroom.

Most builders for first time homeowners type builds are NOT open to making changes.

^^^ exactly. What ARE we allowed to change? This plan isn’t terrible but could certainly be improved but we’d need a lot more information.

If they are "on a SUPER tight budget" there are a few extravagant things that could be cut to save a lot of money, but anyone that would tell them are stuck in the weeds.

Can a pantry (matching cabinet pantry the same height as the fridge cabinetry) be added next to the fridge at the end of that run? They could still keep the long walk in pantry around the corner for extra food storage and for items that aren't used daily. I once had a reach in pantry closet that wasn't in that kitchen's U shaped space (around the corner from my fridge) and it was no big deal.

Tlynn1960 GREAT suggestion! The other plan that they were looking at was just too small so that was suggested then. So this might be great given them an every day pantry and then they’re overflow pantry. Thanks!!

The builder suggested two “change” options for reworking that left side w the master. That is where they were looking for a better smoother transition. This whole thing was changed up to add the walk-in pantry. If anyone can suggest w a little pencil diagram then we’d be interested. Thank you all for some great suggestions!

And Mark we are open to “weeding”… just not getting stuck in em.

They are interested just busy so I am in the gap for them now. They are moving forward as two young people that are ready to get their lives started as a married couple and tired of living in each others parents homes. They just want to start their lives as they’ve been waiting for several years. The land has been given and they both have good jobs. Interest rates are hurting as well as insurance but they feel they can swing this amount though it’s not their dream home. Any help is appreciated as they are marching towards a life together that’s been put on hold for too long.

Ask how much the builder up charges for changes to the plans.

Hope they have seen the quality of the builder's work. This sounds like they are rushing into building a home for all of the wrong reasons. Good luck to them. Hope it works out.

I will start with no way a trip to the pantry through the great room and no utility room at th f ront of the house . Never a closet accessed through a bathroom even like this . IMO the bathoom is way too big for such a small house and toilet rooms are just plain silly No one should be using the toilet when someone else is in the bathroom . A nice tub/ shower and no wasted space for a toilet room is IMO a place to start. This is the issue with any stock plan they are rarely perfect and those tiny bedrooms are really not great either . This is not the forever home maybe think about getting a good interior designer to help if this plan is a must. BTW entry right into a living space no way.

Which way will they enter the home each day? Not sure the climate but there are no closets or storage options at either entrance, that would bother me - I would want a plan for a drop zone/coat/purse etc

for me the master suite seems oversized for the house - in my experience just not that much time is spent in that space - I’d give some of that up for a small, cozy media room - always nice to have a second living area in case couples want to do different things - or one has a group of friends over

The vaults in that plan aren't making sense to me so I'd be interested in seeing the elevation/roof plan.

It would be easy enough to change the pantry door to adjacent to the fridge. It would just involve moving the pantry wall further into the master bedroom. Not sure what else you specifically think is bad about this plan (others have pointed out some shortfalls already). You also haven't said how much can be changed. But if they can change anything, then I would consider flipping the entire master wing so the bedroom is on the corner, and adding more windows.

Honestly hardly any young couples are in a place where they can build their dream home. If they own the land already I would maybe suggest they sit on it UNTIL they can build their dream home, and in the mean time do what most people starting out in their lives do - buy a starter home and build equity. Unless the land is nothing special, I guess, then I suppose do what you want with it. But I wouldn't build a less-than-ideal home on land I own. Not to mention, whatever cost they are getting from the builder is going to be base, and they will have sticker shock with all of the things that are likely NOT included. Make sure they understand the full list of what they are getting, and what they are NOT getting. Unless they have picked out all of their materials ahead of time, they will likely be surprised to discover that they have to pay more for certain things. If they do go through with this build and they are on a tight budget, they need to do their research NOW, pick out what they want, and have the builder price that. Big ticket items like windows are probably being priced at the base level, for example. Things like window treatments aren't even included. FWIW, most people say you need at least 10% over the bid for change orders/unknowns IN CASH, and I think that number is low these days. That's before you even move in. We built 3 years ago, and have spent about 20% of our home's cost finishing it out (landscaping, patio, deck, basement, furniture, blinds, closets). And we're still not done.

Agree - building a home is sooo $$$, I wouldn't want to do it as a young person. FWIW we're building a custom lake home now and I am pretty overwhelmed and I've owned and remodeled several homes - it's a LOT. TBH if I owned land and was starting out, I'd be tempted to explore a modern modular home - there are some pretty cool options out there these days

https://www.dwell.com/prefab-homes

@la_la Girl yes, it's SO MUCH work and really hard to do when working full time. The OP's comment "they are interested just busy..." makes me think this is not going to go well. They're too busy to research their own house plan? Not a good start to a custom designed home. Friends of ours just finished a down-to-the-studs remodel & addition (essentially a custom home) and it became a full-time job for one of them (they tried to save $ by GC'ing it themselves - in the long run I don't think that worked out for them).

"The OP's comment "they are interested just busy..." makes me think this is not going to go well."

I thought the same thing but did not know how to word it politely.

The plan LL posted makes a lot more sense for sure but thta would be a completely new house .

BTW if they have no time to come here themselves then they should not be building a house it eats time almost daily to make sure things are done according to plan too.

If they are "On a SUPER tight budget" and can't afford an architect but they have a design with vaulted ceiling, someone is advising them poorly.

They need a completely different, smaller, and less complex plan, if they are on some unrealistically small budget. That ain't gonna fit that. Start with a 12x18 shed idea, and work up from that, only adding the smallest most necessary things for life. Be ruthless over the silly froofra that litters that ^ plan. NONE of that justifies the cost to create something so inefficient. And bad. Just plain bad.

" just helping a sweet girl out "

Sometimes the best advice is not at all what they want to hear. Stop, slow down and rethink this entire mess. Do not throw good money after a house just because. If the do not have the time and dollars to put towards design and function, they to stay renters until they have time. Do not allow them to send good money after bad.

Sorry, they are working two jobs currently and she asked me to assist. Taking all this and showing them. They are open to plan suggestions on a smaller scale. They do have another builder that can do a small custom home as well. Thank you all!

This question may be way off track or even totally inappropriate and I hope nobody takes offense, but do they spend much time on their smartphones?

First thought: If they're on a super-tight budget and are too busy to do this research, they would be better off buying an existing house rather than building -- the land they've been given will still be theirs in future years, when they're better able to pay. It'll be considerably cheaper, and if they're not actively involved in the planning, they're not going to get the shiney-penny things that're in their mind anyway. If they proceed with this project, they're likely to end up with a large house filled with builder-basic finishings that won't be satisfactory. Practically no one goes from living in their parents' house to building their own home.

Second thought: This is not an inexpensive "starter house" for a young couple on a super-tight budget. It's move-up sized, and it contains a number of luxury items that few couples just starting out can afford. You say they were given land -- note that building on unincorporated land is more expensive than building in a suburb, as "bringing utilities in" is a bigger deal. In short, based upon your comments, I think they're biting off more than they can chew.

And questions: What are their needs? Do they have children to put in those two extra bedrooms already? Do they need a second full bath at this point? While the house isn't super-extravagent like many we see proposed on this board, it is "more" than most of us could afford when we were just starting out.

Specific thoughts about the plan:

- 10' ceilings are not for people on a super-tight budget. No, the 2' extra materials won't be tremendously expensive to build, but it will push them towards higher prices for windows, window treatments, and cabinets -- standard items will look too small -- and those are really expensive items on the build lines. It'll also give them higher power bills Every. Single. Month.

- Slashing the size of that 55'x8' back porch will cut a good bit off the cost of the house. People tend to think just of the interior, but (square foot for square foot) a porch averages about 60% the cost of interior space. My covered porch is 30'x12' -- I'd be okay with half that width, but I wouldn't want to lose a single inch in depth, as that 12' allows us to have a table /grill by the edge + still maintain a nice walkway.

- They could consider leaving the porch off for now -- add it in a couple years when they can save /pay cash for it.

- Still thinking about the porch -- or, rather the impact of the porch on the rest of the house. Note that the main living spaces are sandwiched between bedrooms and porches. This means they will have little natural light, and that's a very big deal. All of us react postively to lovely natural light flowing in. This is a Very. Big. Deal. Again, reducing the width of the porch could make a difference in how much light flows in.

- The secondary bedrooms look nice, if a bit small.

- The secondary bedrooms' large vanity is nice, but I'd ditch that duplicate sink -- they're rarely used, especially by children. Since cabinetry is so expensive, I'd shorten the vanity a bit -- it could still be plenty large and comfortable -- and go with a small linen closet. Not a cabinetry closet, but a plain closet, which is singificantly cheaper than millwork. I have a 24" closet in my bathroom -- open space on the bottom for a hamper, shelves above. Perfect -- and significantly cheaper than the layout shown.

- The pantry is just ridiculous. While the size is wonderful (and not expected in a starter house), it's much too far from the kitchen to be useful.

- The hallway to the master is a space hog. It will also be difficult to bring large furniture through this 90 degree turn.

- The laundry room is quite nice -- and unexpected in a starter house -- but the machines should be flipped so the dryer is on an exterior wall. That's cheaper to install, and it's easier to keep the dryer vent cleaned out, which means more fire-safe.

- Speaking of fire safety, the master bedroom is far from a door. I'd like to see an exterior door in the master.

- Removing the vault in the master bedroom would be a money-saver -- both in terms of building and in terms of monthly power bills.

- The master bath contains all the things you wouldn't expect in a starter house. Toilets in closets are always confining and more difficult to clean, but if you stick with this one, definitely flip-flop it with the shower so you can at least get a window in the closet.

Access the closet through the bedroom, not the bathroom. Avoid steamy clothes.

More of a keyboard fear. In all the years I've been reading this board, I've heard people saying, "Oh, no -- this is a fear!", but I've never heard anyone say, "This happened to me and to this extent."

Pocket door

I'd like to see a pocket door closing off the utility room. It's a door that'll rarely be closed, so it's a practical choice.

Most builders for first time homeowners type builds are NOT open to making changes.

Eh, I suspect builders are open to making the changes -- I mean, why do they care who's moving in? But first-time young buyers' wallets aren't able to accommodate those changes. If we're talking production builders, that's where they make the big bucks -- alterations + extras.

Can a pantry (matching cabinet pantry the same height as the fridge cabinetry) be added next to the fridge at the end of that run?

I addressed this above, but I was talking about bathrooms: Note that those pantry-cabinets are lovely, but they are quite expensive. Much more expensive than a plain pantry closet.

IMO the bathoom is way too big for such a small house and toilet rooms are just plain silly No one should be using the toilet when someone else is in the bathroom . A nice tub/ shower and no wasted space for a toilet room is IMO a place to start.

Agree. This is the bathroom one might expect when they're moving up to a larger, more expensive house -- an entry level house would likely boast a small 9x5 three-piece bathroom.

Honestly hardly any young couples are in a place where they can build their dream home. If they own the land already I would maybe suggest they sit on it UNTIL they can build their dream home, and in the mean time do what most people starting out in their lives do - buy a starter home and build equity.

Yes, this.

Agree - building a home is sooo $$$, I wouldn't want to do it as a young person. FWIW we're building a custom lake home now and I am pretty overwhelmed and I've owned and remodeled several homes - it's a LOT. TBH if I owned land and was starting out, I'd be tempted to explore a modern modular home - there are some pretty cool options out there these days

Well, wanting is one thing. Making a wise decision is something else.

A modular might be a good idea. It'll keep them grounded, as they can't attempt all these pie-in-the-sky ideas, and it'll give them a solid number from the beginning -- no adding on this or that extra cost later.

Sometimes the best advice is not at all what they want to hear.

Totally true. And while this board is often harsh, it's usually dead-on advice.

Sorry, they are working two jobs currently and she asked me to assist. Taking all this and showing them. They are open to plan suggestions on a smaller scale. They do have another builder that can do a small custom home as well. Thank you all!

Been there, done that, knew it wasn't the right time to take on a big project.

Smaller is difficult, as it still involves coordinating all the same subcontractors + decisions -- except that they aren't as interested in you because a small project = less profit for them.

The issue is whether building is the right choice for their stage of life. I am sure that renting a while or buying an existing house -- while not so lovely and fun as making every decision for oneself -- is the right choice for them now. If they want shiney and new, they could even get a new build in a suburb, which would be considerably cheaper than building custom -- zero question about that. If they are determined to build, the second best choice is probably a modular, as it's easier /a more streamlined process.

They're on a budget with this plan? Anyway, I'd reconfigure so the master bathroom has some windows and you don't walk through there to get to the closet. Maybe try to work in a coat closet by the front door, like perhaps a small vestibule.

Echoing several comments above. This house is quite complicated and will likely be overwhelming for a young, busy couple on a strict budget. The build could turn into a disaster, way over-budget, and taking months longer to build than planned, if they don't have the time to oversee it diligently or hire someone to do so. Selecting a modular home, as suggested above, would be a wonderful solution for this couple, at their stage of life. If they are determined to build, the first thing they should do is plan a less expensive house, and use the extra money to hire someone to oversee it. The floor plan could be simpler. Vaulted ceilings do not make sense for rooms of these sizes. Instead of feeling luxurious, they will just feel weirdly high and un-cozy. As noted above, 10' ceilings will add unnecessary complication and expense to every other aspect of the build, from windows to cabinetry to painting, for no good reason. Ceilings of 8.5' to 9' will provide the desired sense of space. I would move all the bedrooms to one side of the house. Add closet space at the front door. Move the kitchen to the front, so groceries don't have to be carried through the great room. The porch is massive, yet only deep enough for a little table for two.

That is twice as large, and 10 times as complicated as should be considered for a young couple working two jobs and on a strict budget. Even considering that shows how out of touch they are. You should distance yourself entirely from this, as pointing out how bad they are with money is not going to go well. The only thing worse that bringing up that reality would be not bringing up reality, and encouraging them in this foolishness.

cpartist sometimes posts a list of features that make a house 'work'.

Look at things like providing windows on at least two sides of a room; looking for a logical route from garage to kitchen and movement around within a kitchen; not wasting walls that could have windows on closets. (This plan puts a closet on outside walls -- upper left of plan.) Find a similar list for the couple to use to judge various plans.

Thanks for ALL your insightful comments. Going over all of this with them made and chatting with other family and friends made them STOP and reconsider. They are going to stockpile cash and re-evaluate in a year. See how interest rates are and building materials. By then they will have 50-60% of the money in cash. In the meantime they will also re-evaluate the plans. So glad they aren’t going to move forward and make a mistake… a costly one at that! Thanks everyone!!

What ever happened to cpartist? I haven't seen her posting in a while.

@Jazz Lover - You are a great friend to help them see the light! Good going.