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Proper way to modernize 1940's SF single family home sub-panels

3 months ago

This small single family house is located in San Francisco, and was built in the 1930-1940's. Not sure if it had been updated before, but there is what the electrical panel looks like now:


[Indoor - in Garage]


Open the panel:


On the outside (direct opposite side of the wall):


Open the outdoor main service electrical panel:


I think there is another discussion on diy.stakexchange.com (see this thread) which the OP seems to have a similar issue as mine, but I'm not sure if I understand it completely. So normally what's the process of getting such indoor and outdoor electrical panels modernized and updated? I'm sure that this is not a DIY type of work but just want to get a general idea about what would be involved. Thanks!

Comments (14)

  • PRO
    3 months ago

    Get a GOOD electrician that specializes in old properties and has a good reputation with city inspectors and the power company. Let them take it from there… If you are lucky they can build the new power supply system (weatherhead, meter, interior panels) and get them inspected, then the power company drops the old supply wire , they furiously move the wires from the old panel to the new, and the power company hooks it back up. Out of power for a day or two. But that’s my east coast experience.

    W C thanked HALLETT & Co.
  • 3 months ago

    @Monique, @HALLETT & Co., thanks so much for your reply!


    I just found this "This Old House" video which I think it is kind of relevant so I'm share it here:

    https://youtu.be/LuEAVdpny2U?si=or-VJRZTWxbYK7sf


    BTW, I noticed that under the fuse box, there is a black box which seems to be empty? Does anyone know what that box was for? Thanks


  • 3 months ago

    Why do you think that this "black box" is empty?

    Can you post a photo of the aerial cables and weatherhead coming in to your house.

    W C thanked dennisgli
  • 3 months ago

    You might start by paying an electrician for an inspection. A rusting box is unsightly, but only a cosmetic problem. Corroding wires is fire hazard. There's a host of issues in between cosmetic and your house going up in flames.


    My house's wiring was upgraded a decade or so ago and they left the old stuff around. We have disconnected, decaying knob and tube wiring, a panel with nothing connected to it, and other stuff in our basement. So, scary-looking stuff might just be old, disconnected and unused.


    If you just bought your house, you might want to figure out who the previous owners used for their electrician, although, in our house the wiring we redone two or three owners ago (one previous owner lasted barely a year. One winter and they ran back to Texas).

    W C thanked Sigrid
  • 3 months ago

    You need an electrician to look at it for sure, but I'm not sure the whole house re-wire is called for, We recently put in an upgrade to 200A service, new weatherhead, and panel and it ran something like $5K in metro boston, a similarly expensive area. If you have K&T wiring then you're probably looking at a whole house re-wire for a lot more money.

    Are there ground wires currently in place at the outlets? Not required many places but SF may demand them if you upgrade the panel. Upgrading kitchens and bathrooms at least to current code may well improve the livability of the house-- we use a lot more power in kitchens than we used to! Planning now for upgrades to thindgs like minisplit/heat pumps and induction cooktops makes sense.

    I don't know what CA offers, but in MA the utility company will give you a substantial rebate on a new panel if you install a car charger (you don't need to currently own an electric car). It's worth a call.

    W C thanked rwiegand
  • 3 months ago

    @dennisgli, although this house is located in San Francisco and was built in 1937, but the entire neighborhood has rare underground PG&E cables so there is no weatherhead as the PG&E cable comes into the panel from underground (not from above):


  • 2 months ago
    last modified: 2 months ago

    I asked because you shared a "This Old House" video showing how to replace aerial service as "relevant" - and others seemed to be assuming that.

    So the "black box" you asked about is probably not empty but contains the underground service cable. Looking at the wires in the service disconnect they look pretty small for 100 amps. I would start by having PG&E come out verify that the service is good for 100 amps or more - somebody may just have increased the size of the main fuses!

    W C thanked dennisgli
  • 2 months ago

    For the outdoor fuse boxes and the knife switch, do you think they need to be replaced? Thanks!

  • 2 months ago

    I would replace everything shown. The question is does that include the underground service.

    W C thanked dennisgli
  • PRO
    2 months ago

    All those old cotton shellac wires should not exist inside your walls as active wiring. As well as those horrific panels with inadequate service.

  • 2 months ago

    Where are you seeing these "cotton shellac wires"?

    As others have posted the poster hasn't provided photos of the wiring, the outlets,... and I will add the grounding system.

  • 2 months ago

    Getting a new subpanel on and older house. Here was my MO, and I recommend it:


    Do your research on electricians and arrange for three quotes. Get one mom and pop, one bigger guy, and one other. Make sure one comes personally recommended and one with excellent online reviews. Space them apart. Start with the big guy first. Ask lots of questions, take lots of notes, then go to Reddit Ask an Electrician. Tell them what the first guy says needs to be done. Get feedback. Educate yourself. Then proceed to number two and three. Post again for feedback after you've met with all three. You will have a phenominal education about your options.

  • PRO
    2 months ago

    Dennis I can smell the rayon wire from here. Obviously all of that has to go. When you do a major system like electrical you do it all. (Yes you can do it in phases but all of this junk comes out at once)

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