Well, You are already doing the most importand thing!!! I've found I can't water too much if the roses have good drainage. My cuttings grow large over the summer if i water with VERY dilute fertilome root stimulator. It has soluble auxins and low amounts of NPK. Since using it, my cuttings have grown to a large enough size to survive the Winter shifting in and out even when they've only been struck in October! I use no more that 1/4 the recommended dosage, but fairly frequently. Of course, one can't go wrong with organics. I never commented on your other thread, but I'm thrilled to see you trying again and posting here sharing your knowledge and experience. You were sorely missed.

Stillann, what a compliment coming from your niece! Makes all the effort well worth it!

Vapor, good to know what you have had success with.

Ingrid, I second the previous posts. If drainage is good, then you can almost not water roses enough, and add a quite weak liquid feed each time you water, that's in addition to your regular fertilizer program, you can't do much more to hasten blooming.

But watch your water bills! 🙄

Moses.

Oh, also, disbudding side buds on hybrid tea types should help move blooming along.

Moses

stillann, what a wonderful thing for you to do! I can picture it in my mind, gorgeous roses everywhere and the most special of all being the bride's bouquet. I have no doubt that you created wonderful memories, and how much more warm and personal that florists' roses.

vaporvac, thank you kindly, I couldn't be in better company than I am here.

Moses, I had to chuckle; I have no regular fertilizer program, but maybe I could have my gardener do that. Almost everything is beyond me now, but thankfully I can still take pictures!

I can water a bit, too, and for the moment that might be enough. I'll look on Amazon for an organic fertilizer; I imagine any one of them might do.

Ingrid the two things that sprang to mind when I read your question (apart from water) were alfalfa and fish emulsion. I have noticed a big jump in overall growth, vigour and basal production with the former and more, better, deeper coloured blooms with the latter.

I didn’t notice any real difference between alfalfa tea (a real faff to make) and just sprinkling a handful of alfalfa pellets around the base of each rose, watering them in then adding a mulch of compost over the top. I would normally apply alfalfa around February, so maybe a bit late for that now, I don’t know.

I then start putting a splash of fish emulsion in every watering can when buds begin to form. The NPK of mine is 5-1-4. I have tried various organic liquid fertilisers but this is the one that has had the most visible results for me. I don’t bother with measuring, just aim for a weak tea colour. Like others, I find it’s better to go gently and use a little liquid feed frequently rather than dump a full dose on them less frequently.

Yes, yes , fish emulsion is supposedly so great but BEWARE those of you who have CRITTER ISSUES. Nollie, you're lucky that it works for you but I totally made a mess of things years ago, brewing my own (it's not widely available here in Italy). I have no way of knowing if it did any good to the roses, because it lured a horde of badgers to my garden, who were extremely destuctive. They didn't eat the plants-oh, no, not them! they up-rooted them entirely, searching for grubs, voles, etc. They easily dis-placed the heavy stepping stones that I had lugged into place with great effort over the expensive hard-wood mulch that I had-also with great fatigue-spread about the garden. They scattered this mulch about all over the place, making my hard work nothing but a total waste of money and effort. It was SO HARD to get rid of them-it took me two years or more re-inforcing my fence at the base and anchoring an apron-like piece of sturdy fencing to the ground with plants, logs and nails, etc. I even had to pour concrete over a spot that seemed to be pure,un-diggable rock (and yet they managed to dig it). After this experience, I will not ever use any animal -based organic; just cracked corn, alfalfa, manure (yeah, that does come from animals but it's a waste product from their bodies, not made FROM their bodies)and algae,etc. NO bone meal, no blood stuff, no fish.

Ingrid, I no nothing about those rats and squirrels, but TREAD CAREFULLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nollie, I used the alfalfa when I had a rose garden before but I also had energy then to do that sort of thing. As soon as you mentioned fish emulsion I had the same reaction as bart, NOT a good idea, but thanks so much for replying. bart, my heart went out to you about the badgers, that's truly horrible. I never realized until I saw it on youtube that those guys have long, long nails for digging. That experience had to be heart-breaking (not to mention back-breaking), not what you needed in addition to the labor you already had to tend to the roses. Your grit and determination are far above what I would or could ever do.

For my fast draining sandy soil I have to fertilize a lot to get blooms . Roses like regular feedings . So I try to add something every week or two before the summer heat .

Follow my plan, Ingrid. Diane

Ingrid, I think you’re going to be happy with the results of a root stimulator for your small roses as vaporvac recommends. I have seen impressive results using that on young own root roses that need a kickstart. Diane’s regimen is perfect for roses otherwise, though I am very fond of Nollies use of alfalfa and fish emulsion in the spring when trying to promote new basal breaks.

Judi, I think Ingrid wants something simpler than having to make stinky alfalfa tea and stinkier fish emulsion. You can get that stuff pre-made for you and a part of Plant Tone, and stinky Lilly Miller Organic fertilizer that's granular and easy to apply. Thankfully, my compost doesn't stink. But these three products are easy to apply and require no mixing, smelly storage, or a special place to assemble the smelly stuff. I do enough cooking without having to cook my fertilizer. My regimen works. Diane

I've noticed a fertilizer on Amazon called Rose Tone which is organic. I wonder if anyone here has tried it.

Ingrid, Rose Tone is basically the same as Plant Tone. Holly Tone works, too. I've used all three Tones. The difference is the Rose Tone is always priced higher because the sellers think rose growers are snooty and rich, I guess. Seriously, there is something going on with the Tones' pricing. I would have mentioned my dates of application, but you in So Cal, are on a different seasonal schedule than I am. You might be able to find the Lilly Miller Organic Granulated fertilizer locally. I buy the Tones in 36-50 pound bags, no shipping costs, on Amazon. I look for the best deals, no shipping, and pounce. It's worked out very well over the years. My compost, which I swear by, is a northwest area product. It's called NuLife Organic Compost with Mycorrhizae. I apply compost in late November, Plant Tone in late February, and Lilly Miller in late March or early April. You would probably adjust this schedule a little for your season. Diane

Dear Diane, thank you for once again mentioning your plan in such detail. I'm going to bookmark it this time so it won't get lost. I appreciate this so much.

Just FYI Fertilome root stimulator Does not smell at all It's an that stimulates root growth. It is a liquid Concentrate which I dilute. it Really stimulates the root growth which helps with the upper growth. I found this extremely helpful for Own root roses. Not necessary for grafted roses. I just use this to get them going To make it through my winter. I pot up my small plant so Once they're in the ground I don't use this. However Ingrid planted very small plants I believe.

I love the tones for Potting up my small cuttings and also Mixing with my compost for A mulch. On planted roses.

I have wild boar, badgers, foxes, squirrels and deer that dig under or jump the fence, there are certainly mice here and probably rats too, although luckily nothing has ever shown the remotest interest in what I put on my roses! Perhaps they generally find enough to eat in the surrounding forests. The boar can be a menace because they dig up the grass on the higher terraces but so far have completely ignored the garden on a lower level.

The alfalfa pellets are 100% pure green matter, totally odourless and easy to sprinkle around the roses and actually my fish emulsion has no real odour either, but I can see that you need a much simpler regime, Ingrid. You certainly don’t want to be attracting those roof rats any more than they are already are with a nice fish dinner!

The root stimulator seems the way to go. It also occurred to me, belatedly, that many of your new plants are rugosas, isn’t it the case that they do not need or like fertiliser much?

I followed Diane's advice and switched from Rose Tone to buying giant bags of Plant Tone. I also have 40lb bags of Harmony 5-4-3 organic fertilizer around for the farm that I use in a pinch. It's a lot cheaper.

Diane, I wasn’t suggesting that Ingrid should try all of the above, but I am suggesting that vaporvac knows what she’s saying about young, own root roses benefiting from a root stimulator. It has no smell to speak of and is no more complex than Miracke Gro and requires no special “cooking”. You grow mostly grafted plants either as bare roots or potted from the nursery, I believe, ready to grow and requiring much less attention than small, own root plants. Your regimen is absolutely perfect for them and I have copied your fertilizer plan with great results. I highly recommend your plan! But for small own root roses that Ingrid is trying to kickstart a bit, I really feel she would benefit from doing what vaporvac suggests.

I killed a couple own root roses by trying too hard and using root stimulator on them. I would make sure it is very dilute.

You won't kill anything using Diane's advice.

Also Ingrid, Agnes is another wonderful rugosa from High Country Roses.

Why yes, Sheila. Vaporvac emphasizes that in her post by saying VERY dilute… Ingrid’s roses will probably grow just fine without the root stimulator as long as the critters leave them alone, but she was specifically asking about what she could do to speed them along a little bit… which is what we are all trying to help with.

My roses are all own-root but as I bought them from the Antique Rose Emporium they came in two-gallon pots and so are not petite, thank goodness. My three hybrid rugosas (apart from my mature Wild Edric) are all now just bare sticks, quite different from the other roses. Sheila, I had considered Agnes but she has only a Fair rating on HMF for disease resistance so not for me, although the flowers are lovely.

To begin with I'm ordering the Lily Miller rose and flower food, which is no more expensive than all the other types and has alfalfa meal as an ingredient. I'm assuming it comes in granules that I can water it in, so not labor-intensive.

Sheila, do you grow Agnes? I well remember her from the greenhouse at HCR. Ingrid< what diseases do you get? If you are dealing with souch large roses, perhaps stick to organics. I'd feel terrible if your gardener overcompensated with the stimulator and damaged your roses. I feel your growing conditions would benenfit from organics, but may require more water to help break them down. Diane puts hers on starting in the Fall I recall to give it time. Do you have any pictures or are they on your other thread?

Ingrid and Vapor, that is totally wrong about Agnes's health. She is gorgeously healthy. I am so gratified with how well rugosas do here.

I looked at HMF on Agnes, and it was one person rating "fair" on health. That is crazy. She is rock solid charming and healthy. I think a beginner mistook her foliage ruffles for disease.

Sheila, the other thing that gave me pause was the rather gawky-looking lower part of the plant on HMF, although on second thought that might be more of a challenge for the critters. Lots of bare spiny stems! I won't be adding to the roses I have now for at least a year, and who even knows what the next year might bring. I'm living very much in the moment, much like my roses.

I think the photos of Agnes on HMF do not do her justice Ingrid. She is very charming in person.

Sheila, everything looks beautiful in your photo!

I think Wild Edric would find Agnes attractive.

Agnes just started blooming.

@Diane Brakefield

What is the name of the Lilly Miller Organic fertilizer you buy & what is it’s eqivalent for ”nin-acidic’ soil. I may try it?

i am putting out RosexTone & Olant Tone & trued some fish fertilizer. I also lived the alphalfa/oats horse geed I used. those 3 worked heavenly.

But I’d like to tey a Lilly Miller organic?

UPDATE: Oh, I looked at Lilly Miller Organic Plant food which us another slow release w/ alfalfa & poultry. I don’t really need it when I have Rose Tone/Plant Tone w/ almost same ingredients.

Is there a quick release fertilizer you ise at beginning of season?

Sheila, I'm afraid your Agnes is a big girl; she'd be elbowing out everyone else, maybe even Wild Edric. I am firm and resolute in adding no new roses this year until I can see how all this pans out. I am enjoying my roses though!!!

Kitty, I don't use any quick release fertilizer. The full name of the Lilly Miller I use is Lilly Miller Organic Granular Fertilizer for acid loving plants. I use this because my soil is alkaline, and I want to acidify the soil a little for the roses. I don't want to use a separate soil acidifier. It's not necessary. I would guess your soil is acid so you would want a fertilizer made for all plants in general. I haven't noticed if LM makes that kind of fertilizer. You could probably find out easily. Diane

Amazon Choices Lilly Miller that I could find:

The Organic -Lilly Miller-All Purpose Planting & G. Food has Alfalfa & Chicken manure main ingredients, similar to Rose Tone & Plant Tone. Lilly Miller product is more expensive than Rose/Plant Tones,. I don’t see any reason to buy it w/ similar ingredients.

Lilly Miller Rose & F Food, similar ingrediients to Rose/Plant Tones, but Lilly Miller cost more, again.

The Azalea food is for acid loving plant’s above. Is this what you buy?

Maybe you add the Lilly Miller because you need to add acid to your soil, because otherwise similar ingredients almost as Rose/Plant Tones,.

I guess I was hoping to find an essy quick release irganic fertilizer. Some use Miracle grow, but it’s not organic.

My favorite fertilizers:

Plant Tone Ingredients

Alaska Fish Fertiluzer mixed with Alaska Morbloom gives balance of NPK. =5-11-11.

FROM CHEWY:

Alfalfa & Oat Horse Feed pellets (I did last season)

OR

Alfalfa horse feed pellets

I like the Alfalfa pellets or Alfalfa w/ Oats horse feed! It’s cheap & really good for soil/roses.

My fertilizer regimen:

1. April Plant or Rose Tone

Alfalfa pellets

Two Mixed Fish Fertilizers

Add new soil/cow manure to some

beds.

2. Monthly Fish fertilizers some roses. Weekly fish fertilizers for baby roses.

3. June Rose or Plant Tone

4. Fall Rose or Plant Tone & Alfalfa, again

.

NOTE:

Sometimes I only fertilize 2 times a season w/ Tones & once with alfalfa.-seems enough. However, for richest green dark leaves & more blooms doing it 3 times a season is good!

Kitty, you asked. I use the Lilly Miller made with natural ingredients, 10-5-4, for acid loving plants like Rhodies, Evergreens, and Azaleas. I buy the 16 pound bag for about $18 at a NW chain called Fred Meyer. It's also available at Home Depot, but costs several dollars more. This fertilizer is considered organic, and it stinks. As I mentioned, I also use Plant Tone, which I purchase from Amazon. Diane

Diane,

Your roses seem to grow quickly with ”All irganic fall compost, and 2 orgaic granularcskow release products in Feb/March or April.” That gives the slow release time to get them started.

It’s interesting that you use this azalea food for acid loving plants, to add more acid to your soil for roses in Idaho. Did you test your soil to see if it brings it up to 6.5 PH which is what roses thrive in? Idaho is oretty dry & that sounds like what it needs to balance your soil for roses. Thank you for sharing.

Now in the PNW, they must have plenty of acid in the soil with the coast and all those evergreens, ferns, azaleas, and rhodes, already. They use normal ”rose or plant foods..”

In CA and other places I have lived we had alkaline clay soil. I would just bring in a few mendments to fix soil.

Using just normal rose foods seems to be just right for me in NY, also. I have clay soil, but I add so much cow manure, organic soils, nutritious alfalfa /oats, Tones , and fish fertilizers, the roses don’t even notice the clay soil. LOL!

I guess there are dozens of ways to amend your soil for roses. In the end as long as you test ph 6.5 you are doing great!

Diane's roses speak for themselves. They don't need a test kit.

Thanks, Sheila. I've used soil acidifiers in the past, and it's just an extra hassle. Keep it simple. Diane

Simple sounds great! Thank you!

I was researching ingredients lately fir some organic granular ”slow-release” fertilizers. Found some fun facts….

Reading labels of Espoma Rose Tone, Plant Tone, Holly Tone, & Lilly Miller Rhododendrum Evergreen, & Azalea food……

Plant Tone

Rose Tone

Holly Tone

Lilly Milly Rhode/Evergreen, Azalea Food

ARS recommends NPK 10-10-10 or 6-12-16, either good. Nitrogen-Phosphorous-Potassium. You may choose to have a higher phosphorous ir not.

Usually it’s recommended to use the ”General Garden fertilizer Plant Tone or Rose Tone on roses. NPK & ingredients of both products almost exactly the same.

However, if you need more acid in your soil add sulfur. In Lilly Miller Rhode/Evergreen, Azalea food, it has sulfur added and then almost the exact ingredients as Rose Tone & Plant Tone, too. Love those ingredients….chicken manure, bone meal, greensand, NPK, magnesium, calcium…and more.

I notice that only the Lilly Miller has ”iron” in it. Roses need iron.

Nitrogen-for green leaf/cane growth.

Phosphorous-for root growth. (May have more phosphorous.

Potassium-for blooms. —————————-

Use Fish Fertilizers Monthly:

LIQUID ALASKA FISH FERTILIZER/Cow Manure: High Nitrogen, for green canes/leaf growth.

LIQUID ALASKA MORBLOOM-(A type of fish fertilizer) High in phophorous/potassium-for root growth & blooms.

I mix the 2 liquid fertilizers together for

”immediate growing results“ Quick release. Also, to quickly revitalize sick roses-I use it weekly. Use on all potted roses. ———————

Greensand-for potassium & micronutients.

Alfalfa meal or pellets-for a balanced fertilizer rich in nitrogen, vitamins, minerals. .

Seaweed-for nitrogen & phosphorous.

Bone Meal-for phosphorous

Coffee Grounds-boosts nitrogen

TESTING SOIL

If you choose to test your soil a 5.5 to 6.5 PH is recommended. The lower numbers is more acidic. Either is good for roses.

Fun to know why these ingredients are sooooo good for our roses!

AKFALFA MEAL/PELLETS:

A balanced organic fertilizer high in nitrogen. Also, it has calcium, magnesium, sulfur, maganese, iron, copper, boron, and zinc, essential for plant growth & development. A In addition, it has the hormone, ”triacontanol which stimulates plant growth & devopment., resulting in larger plants and larger blooms.

I found ordering Alfalfa horse feed or alfalfa & oats horse feed from Chewy is less expensive than Espoma Alfalfa Meal. Just a thought. I order the Alfalfa/Oat 50 lbs bag for $31.50 or Alfalfa for $25.49.

RAW OATS

For nitogen & improving soil structure. Do not cook. Use raw oats only. Use small amounts not in excess or could be goey. I it mixed in the horse alfalfa/oat pellets feed & seemed to improve soil-my roses really grew when used last season.