The ones that curl my toes are Sydonie, Francois Dubreuil (or whatever it is), Sharifa Asma, Madame Isaac Periere, and just about every Gallica I've ever smelled.

Cynthia

Roses with long-lasting blooms are rarely fragrant, so discovering the strong perfume of Träumerei was such a lovely surprise! It sits quietly in a pot on my deck, and now and then I wander over, just to breathe in that beautiful scent...

Rouge Royale has very long lasting blooms, and Young Lycidas isn't bad either. YL's fragrant bouquets are glorious. I'll share a few photos later. Diane

Nollie - so lovely to read your comments about fragrance. Mmmmm :)

jjk - oh, that's perfect...when you smell GO's fragrance, let me know if it's what you were expecting. :)

Why thank you kindly Carol. I never used to think I had a good sense of smell, not sure I actually do, who knows. However, I determinedly trained my nose to detect and identify different fragrance notes and got better at it over the years.

I didn’t have ‘Not Francis Dubreuil’ for long, Cynthia, because it fried badly, but I didn’t get much fragrance from it at all, perhaps the sun burnt it off too quickly here. I still remember the first and only Gallica I inhaled, wow the fragrance was heady! They are a very rare sight over here, one of the classes I always assumed I can’t grow well in my climate, same with Albas.

Yes, Nollie - the once-bloomers are one of the relatively few advantages in cold weather gardening (spring bulbs like tulips being another). Glad you could enjoy the Gallica for a little. The Hybrid Perpetuals are another group where fragrance is usually expected, but my nose is so poor I can't detect 90% of rose fragrances. Some of my HPs were scentless to me, but incredibly fragrant to others. I am allergic to everything that grows (ironic in a gardener, eh?) so my sensory system is mostly overwhelmed year round. I wish I could train my nose as you describe, but I think it's a lost cause. At best, most roses smell vaguely green.

Shame that you couldn't smell Not Francis D. Being that it's a "not" rose, there might be different versions of the rose only some of which are fragrant. I've seen two versions of "not" Reine de Violettes, one of which is thorny and once blooming, the other thornless and repeating.

The heat does indeed decrease the scent for most plants, particularly if it's dry heat. I'll occasionally see posts asking which roses "waft" on the breeze. In my dry climate, the answer is "none of them". We have a lilac garden near where I work with over 50 varieties packed into a small garden. The lilac smell should be overwhelming, but in our climate I usually have to stick my nose right into a lilac in bloom to even detect if it's fragrant or not.

Cynthia

Cynthia - here too...rose fragrances don't waft here. But then...tree blossoms' fragrances go far and wide, as does my Mock Orange...but that's it. Such a shame that you can only smell "green" and not the wonderful nuances of fragrances.

About 'Rose de Rescht' for cultivation, in my shallow, heavy clay soil it does very well in both sun and shade, slowly suckering out when on its own roots. Very resistant rose; though it can get foliage disease in the summer, it's not bothered by it.

Among DA roses that I grow, the ones with sweet old roses fragrance are:

Gertrude Jekyll, following picture GJ (right) is mixed with Raspberry Cupcake. To my nose they both have similar strong rose scent, and RC’s more intense with fruit scent

Desdemona very sweet with little or none fruit note

Sharifa Asma probably has the strongest fragrance in all my roses but the blooms are very short living. Evelyn is similar . Neither is good bloomer in my garden unfortunately

Foreveranewbie - I've got Raspberry Cupcake as a bareroot rose this year...I'm so happy that you mentioned how wonderful its fragrance is!! Gorgeous roses!!!

@rosecanadian, you will be so happy with your RC. Last year blooms were quite small and even looked dull. In one year they are so different.

Plant has been BS clean and extremely healthy

Foreveranewbie - good to know. :) Healthy and fragrant...my fave. :)

@forever_a_newbie_VA8 and @rosecanadian, I am super intrigued by the rose that both of you are growing! The Raspberry, Lemon and Rose combo sounds epic! I’d love to read a new thread on this rose and how it compares to Gertrude Jekyll and other fruity damask rose varieties!!

@jjkOC zone 10a/22, SoCal I also have trouble telling rapsberry from citrus. So I try to take the famous Zephirine Drouhin as the standard for raspberry. I have had it for 2 years but last year it was dig out by the voles and I had to start over from a little branch I saved. The fragrance might not have fully developed.

I have a Rise-up Lilac Days rose for 3 years. I had always thought it had strong grape fruit scent plus something else. Now I know that something else is the raspberry note. I highly recommend it: clean, blooming freely, fragrant and beaurltiful lilac color. Plus almost thornless, except it easily grows into a monster

The other rose I grow with strong old rose scent is the brindlebella Purple Prince. It has citrus note also. very healthy, beautiful color.

Beverly is super fragrant, very sweet lychee smell. It might have some faint old rose scent but I cannot tell. Being a modern Kordes it is very healthy and huge. I moved it a couple months ago so it does not bloom as much this year

foreveranewbie - I didn't know that BPP is fragrant. Yours is beautiful!!! I would love to find one next year. :)

I’ve also got a new bare root Raspberry Cupcake this year so it will be interesting to compare notes. Unfortunately it looks like my first emerging blooms are going to ball, it’s been so wet here.

Cynthia, apologies for the delay in responding, that’s really a great shame that you cannot detect most rose fragrances, but it does make me really sit up and take notice of the ones you can, they must be really strongly fragrant! I have mostly humid heat here, which does indeed help. My ’Not Francis’ was from Peter Beales in the UK ex Sangerhausen so it should have been fragrant.. perhaps I simply didn’t give it enough time.

@NollieSpainZ9, Raspberry Cupcake blooms are not the most impressive even this year it is much improved. Funny when I share above photo friends invariably would comment on the red roses at the corner (it is Lady In Red my favorite also but non fragrant) . Only after I stress the quality of fragrance and health they start to consider RC favorably😊

@rosecanadian, yes BPP is super fragrant. The bloom form is a bit loose and does not last long

@forever_a_newbie_VA8, Confession…totally feeling foliage envy. Wow! Your plants are so beautifully lush! I love these different shades of pink!

@jjkOC zone 10a/22, SoCal, thanks for the kind words. But that is because those roses happen to be the healthiest in our garden. You should look at the photoes of my Eden, Lady In Red, Graham Thomas etc 😄😄😄

@forever_a_newbie_VA8, my Raspberry Cupcake blooms are frozen at birth! Even sheltered from the rain under the roof and against a stone wall - and OK we have had a LOT of rain for weeks - RC cannot cope with damp conditions..

I have had balling, sodden bloom problems with many German-bred roses, which mystifies me since they don’t exactly have a dry climate there. Hopefully some blooms will open properly in sunnier times so I can at least evaluate the fragrance.

@NollieSpainZ9, that’s one sad looking bud…

Nolling, balling and sodden blooms. Yikes. I hope mine does better. We're fairly dry here. But, we do get rain. I hope yours grows out of this.

@NollieSpainZ9, that is a sad flower. But virgin bloom often is regular and especially with a lot of rain. I remember posting a topic that my Paradise rose might be a wrong plant because the first bloom looked so wield. I am sure your RC will do better later.

Some Kordes roses have this balling problem: Earth Angel, Summer Romance, even Beverly sometimes. Maybe because they are too packed with petals? I am not sure. In my garden Fun in the Sun is the worst in balling. But it is also gorgeous when it does fully open

Another night of torrential rain and more battered, sodden roses this morning! But unlike RC, Artist, some other new roses out in the open have no rain damage to buds or blooms, so I think that’s not a good sign RC will do OK in my climate!

Back on topic, my new Jacques Cartier is developing that lovely damask old rose fragrance. Not surprising, given it’s heritage.

Nollie,

JC is a fragrance winner! Yummy!

Sunrise Parfuma

(Oooooooooo! Thank you! @rosecanadian Carol! I smelled her yesterday! Sooooooo delicious a fragrance! Strong citrus rosie floral fragrance! Yummmmmmy!

First bloom!

OOPS! I’m just enjoying my new rose above’s fragrance….not on topic. But….. fabulous fragrance!

LOOKING FOR A ROSE compared to Grandma’s Hat fragrance? OGRs have the richest spicy fruity fragrances …….

Nollie,

I agree that the OGRs-Bourbons/Portlands/Damasks have similar rich intense fragrances! The OGRs gave tge ”richest” fragrances, too! If one really wants intense fragrance-tgese two roses have ”thee most ever!…… Thee most fragrannt if my hundreds if roses from past & present……

”Mme Dubost & Mme Isaac Pereirre!

These 2 OGRs fragrance are intensely deep rich fruity fragrant! Also, Yolanda de Aragon is rich & fruity spicey!! JC is good, too!

Mme Dubost-The epitome of strong fruity fragrance!

Munstead Wood……

Munstead Wood has a strong old rose with fruity notes of black berry, blueberry & damson.

Many OGR s have rich old rose fragrances. However, finding a rose fragrance similar to ”bkack berries and blueberries? Hmmmm?

Mme Isacc Pereirre, Enchanting intense deep fruity fragrance

How about a ”Favorite Fragrant Rose Thread?” @rosecanadian, Carol? I really need to make a list of my most fragrant roses & their scent descriptions…..

@KittyNY6, OMG! Epic! I grow roses primarily for fragrance, so your experiences and rec’s are fantastic! I will totally research those beautiful roses! YES! I second a Favorite Fragrant Rose thread!

@NollieSpainZ9, your Jacques Cartier is so lovely! Really wish we had smellovision through the internet!

Don't forget about Chrysler Imperial, Mister Lincoln, and Firefighter for that velvety fragrance I think you are looking for (to my nose, in the same family as Munstead Wood). Gertrude Jekyll has a different fragrance for me, but of course GJ has a similar fragrance to the related Comte de Chambord. Give Madame Isaac Pereire a sniff and see what you think also (as previously mentioned). She has a particularly well balanced fragrance, and seems to be a clearer scent than the more cotton-felt GJ to me, but I find they are in a similar group of fragrances.

Jacques Cartier and Evelyn are my favorite rose fragrances....always present any time of the day. However, my good old dependable Quietness, although not as potent as Jacques Cartier and Evelyn are, Quietness refreshes considerably, not emitting a slap in the face fragrance, but just enough fragrance to put a smile on it.

Moses.

Nollie, oh my word!!!!! That's exquisite!!! Utterly divine!!! And yours has fragrance, too!!! I would have kept mine if it had had any fragrance.

Kitty - Oh, I so wish I had gotten SP!!!! The blooms are lovely and the fragrance sounds wonderful. :) :) My Mme Dubost didn't make it through the winter/spring. It's an own root, so maybe it'll come back. To me, those are some of the most intensely beautiful roses I have ever seen... Mme Dubost and MIP. SWOOOOOOON!!!!!! Yes, you should create a thread about fragrant roses!!

Your Mme. Dubost is gorgeous, Kitty. We shouldn’t forget the gallicas for those who can grow them. This is my Mme. de Sévigné today, which is equal to or surpasses Mme. Isaac Periere for fragrance. More heat and rain tolerant too:

In warmer weather it’s a cooler pink:

@noseometer...(7A, SZ10, Albuquerque), totally agree with you on those reds having the damask type fragrance. I grew beloved Firefighter until it got crown gall. :( Its flower form isn’t as attractive to me as old European roses, but I loved how potent its perfume was. Hm… you have an interesting point about GJ’s fragrance being less clear. I do agree that there is what I interpret as a softness, rather than a purity or brightness in fragrance. This is the aspect I like about GH; GH’s high note is really pleasing.

I would LOVE to grow MIP, given how often I’ve read of her praises, but it seems like a really big shrub, or climber? The biggest rose bush in my garden is Golden Celebration which basically has a bed to itself. Grandmother’s Hat dominates her bed, but hope to add Barbara’s Pasture Rose, which I’m growing up from a band. I am hoping that BPP will be fragrant and disease resistant especially to powdery mildew!

I would really be interested in a head-to-head comparison of BPP and these Madames (Isaac Pereire, Dubost, de Sévigné). These ladies have been mentioned in multiple threads I’ve read of fragrant OGRs.

@Moses, Pitt PA, cold W & hot-humid S, z6, JC is also a front runner in regards to fragrance, but I opted for St. Cecilia to round out the pale pink bed because of her POTENT myrrh perfume. Its really different from other roses of this fragrance type. I will be installing Evelyn into a new bed; her perfume is highly praised. She is growing steadily from a rooted cutting. Very excited to one day experience her perfume!

@jjkOC zone 10a/22, SoCal - I totally agree regarding the fragrance of GJ (sorry, I'm not sure why I said GC). I meant as you have interpreted that it is a "softer" fragrance, not in the sense of being less strong, but less bright or cleanly simple, and with more subtle complexity. Tough to explain. I would guess that MIP would grow quite large in your climate. I haven't found a place for her in my garden myself, and she did not like the one place I tried (to my great dismay).

@NollieSpainZ9 - those are some stunning photos!

@noseometer...(7A, SZ10, Albuquerque), I meant Gertrude Jekyll, a typo utterly on my part. And yes, for Gertie, I concur with your read on her fragrance.

It’s unfortunate that MIP seems to be so particular in regards to zone and placement for peak performance. Perhaps the expectations growers have from photographs are greater than what she can consistently deliver?

My Madame Isaac Periere own root, as beautiful and fragrant as its blooms were, did not have the gumption/fortitude to make anything more than a feeble attempt at attaining the keeper assessment.....no vigor, poor winter survivability, nor disease resistance. Its removal was a sad event.

Moses.

Nollie - I could just cry over the beauty of your MdS rose blooms!!! I would loooove to have that or Mme Dubost in my garden. The blooms are superb!!

This is MdS last year, third season, grafted. It is SO much more robust, healthy, and easier to grow in limited space than MIP, because it stays compact and doesn’t sprawl. The thicker petals resist heat and rain really well. It has been described as a ’freestanding climber’ and can be grown as such. Mine did throw out a couple of long canes in the first year, but I immediately cut those back hard and it quickly got the message that it was to be a shrub. For a highly fragrant bourbon, if you can get it, I would recommend it over MIP every time. It might grow much bigger for you in SoCal, jjkOC but worth a try?

@jjkOC zone 10a/22, SoCal

Thank you! Those are my favorite fragrant roses! Mme Dubost & Mme Isaac Perierre. Well, thete’s Mme Anisette-she has a yummy licore fragrance-really love her, too!

@rosecanadian

Carol,

I guess I’ll start a fragrance thread. I’m super busy… but I can start it…..Oh, My, Your Mme Dubost didn’t come back. Maybe the frists got her. Small roses don’t always make it through frosts. You had a tough situation this yeat. Next year will be better. I hope sge grows back or try her again. She would grow well given normal curcumstances. Ask Heirloom to send you a 18 month old rose-explain you need a mature one to griw better in your cold?

Nollie,

Thank you about my Mme Dubost. I love your Mme de S. does she rebloom throughout the season.

Mme Dubost & Mme Isaac Pereirre look almost the same when blooming & similar scent-I can’t tell any difference. It’s Just that Mme Isaac Pereirre climbs a little if I let her so I gave her a big spot in the middle of an oval bed now-may allow 6 ft this time. I don’t like too tall a roses. I orune them back. . I used to prune her to a 4 ft bush…. but I wanna see her grow bigger niw w/ more blooms! Woohoo!

@jjkOC zone 10a/22, SoCal

Regarding MIP, I supposed she may grow rather large in your climate zone 10. I prune back after each bloom…. so keeps gercsize diwn & those amazing big sumptous blooms-to die for! She’s a Bourbon & can get mildew and so do may of my roses. No worries! I just soray in fall if it happens. I have a super rainy climate. She is so rich in gorgeous blooms and fragrance, I could never oass her up! Same with Mme Dubost!

I had MIP in Los Angelos (Chatsworth), CA years ago. She grew well, no fungus, super fabulous! Ben has her in southern CA-she looks goid!

@BenT (NorCal 9B Sunset 14)

How does your Mme Isaac Pereire do for you bloom, scent? What is your location & zone?

Moses,

I see PA can have even more humidity than me. Bourbons would not make it in your climate I guess. My climate is humid, but Bourbons are fine with a little spraying. Any Southern stares would not do well with Bourbons, either.

My Bourbons Mme Dubost & Mme Isaac Pereirre have always been vigorous and heavey bloomers! This will be Mme Dubost 4th year & MIP 3rd year. I have been thrilled with them!

However, Yolanda de Aragon has an amazing fragrant scent & she’s a girgeous bloomer, too.

Starting a favorite fragrances thread now…. posting soon…. 😊🌺🌸

@NollieSpainZ9, I looked for it from the vendors listed on hmf, but it is stocked only in Europe. The sole US vendor does not list it in inventory. :(

I’ve been reading old threads about MIP and her bloom’s dopplegangers among which MdS is included. It's interesting to me that Bourbon roses as a class are disease-ridden in SoCal, when one parent, China roses, come so highly recommended.

I currently only grow one Bourbon rose—Souvenir de la Malmaison. The foliage is freckled with powdery mildew, but that doesn’t stop it from pumping out tons of flowers all year long. I do not currently use chemical fungicides.

PM-prone conditions are listed as dry soil and warm-moist air or shaded-moist air. The latter is what happens every morning due to the marine layer that rolls in from the Pacific.

I wonder if there are any environmental changes that might help to grow this class without resorting to chemical use. Did growers in the Georgian/Napoleonic era not face PM on these plants?

Kitty, yes MdS has rebloomed moderately well so far, certainly more than MIP. Hopefully that will get better with more maturity.

Oh that’s a shame about the PM, jjkOC, something I mostly escape for some reason despite having some ideal conditions for it. I got MdS having read US growers’ reviews, how disappointing it’s no longer available there. I have no idea about historical disease, although I do know that in the UK at least, fungal diseases were virtually unheard of during the industrial revolution - all that sulphurous smog!

People perceive fragrance differently just like they taste things differently. Firefighter and Grande Dame have that damask fragrance to me. That said, I did meet a drag queen long ago who's name was Jenny Saykwa.

@KittyNY6, how intriguing that you were able to grow MIP in Chatsworth without fungal disease! It looks like the Topanga and San Vicente mountains would’ve provided a barrier from the marine layer coming in from the Santa Monica Bay.

The equivalent situation around here might be Aliso Viejo or Laguna Hills, which are south of me. I am a bit more inland, so any marine layer burns off pretty readily compared to cities right along the coastline.

We’ve got so many microclimates here in SoCal, so I’d imagine there might be pockets of the region that might permit these roses to grow with less disease.

-Sigh- I wish I could experience the fragrance and growth habits of these roses firsthand before my imagination starts running a relay!

@jjkOC zone 10a/22, SoCal - That's why so many of us have a rose buying addiction. The question of "I wonder how this one will grow/bloom/smell?" will never go away. It helps to have a local rose garden and rose club, because then you can see and smell them and how they grow in your climate before investing. But... no rose garden or club is going to have all the ones you want to try, or the latest releases. And even if it doesn't do well for someone else in your same climate, there is always the question of whether the care and conditions they gave it was the same as what you will give it (or even worse, what you imagine you will give it).

@jjkOC zone 10a/22, SoCal

Chatsworth, near San Gabriel, near, & San Marino, Pasadena, Arcadia, places I lived-all have hot dry weather! You can grow any rose there! Easy Peasie! 😊

Laguna is humid near coast. Humidity may be a problem for some roses.

Nollie - holy crap!!! Those are incredibly beautiful blooms...rose-divinity has come into your garden. SWOOOOON!!!!

Kitty - yeah, very disappointing...I didn't get to see or smell even one bloom. I really hope she grows back. If not, I'll probably try to get her again next year. That's a good idea about asking for an older rose from them. My Deep Secret and Desiree (from Heirloom) are bigger plants than my Mme Dubost was.

Hugogurl - I had Grand Dame (potted) before, and I loved it (died when my daughter left the garage door open for a whole day during a very cold winter day)...but there was no fragrance. I got another one, and hopefully, this one will have the wonderful fragrance I'm hoping for.

Pretty funny, Hugogurll!

Firefighter definitely has strong sweet old rose fragrance. But he is such a stingy bloomer and a bad BSer that I am thinking of moving him to a less prominent location. It is a shame since I don’t have many roses in this fragrance catalogue

@KittyNY6, Would you share a bush shot of your Madame Dubost? I’m really curious to see its growth habit. The promise of a potent perfume is very tantalizing…

@NollieSpainZ9, Yes, it’s a shame that Madame de Sévigné seems commercialiy unavailable in the U.S. And how right you are about the explosion of industrialization in those times and its impact on the environment!

@hugogurll, Totally agree that Grand Dame and Fightfighter are similar in fragrance profile and potency. I guess the question is whether I want to handle those big HT/Grandiflora thorns again!

@forever_a_newbie_VA8, have you tried Grand Dame? It seems like for some growers in zones 6-9 it doesn’t get blackspot. There’s a grower in VA Zone 8b who also recommended it. https://www.houzz.com/discussions/4198767/grand-dame-in-hot-humid

@noseometer...(7A, SZ10, Albuquerque), So true!!! I did look into attending a local rose society meeting when I first started growing roses, but there was always a time conflict with school. Amusingly, the society closest to me won’t meet again until the fall. :P

Forever - that's a shame. I have a Neil Diamond that was a bare root last year and hasn't bloomed yet. Not loving that it's a poor bloomer. Oh well...I hope it does well for both of us, and I really want to smell its fragrance.

jjk - well that's pretty useless, right? lol They should meet in the summer so that people can see each other's gardens and be inspired to get plants that do well for others.

@rosecanadian, perhaps it’s due to lengthy vacationing, though I think it would‘ve been nice to have one meeting during the summer, to take a field trip to the OC Fair Rose judging event, or even to commiserate over roses toasted to potpourri by the summer sun… Well, I may not be able to meet local society growers, but I’m very thankful for this forum and the wonderful fellow rose gardeners like you and others around the globe!