When my husband passed away I had one document I needed notarized. Luckily there is someone at work who was able to do it for me. But I have also done the e-signature on forms with no issues.

I bought a second home in another part of the state 7 years ago. It went something like this:

-Visit it during an open house, talk it over among ourselves and the agent, decide to make an offer. Return home.

- Realtor wrote up the offer which we signed electronically. It was submitted electronically. One counter offer from sellers, discussed over the phone, accepted electronically.

-Find a lender and apply for a loan. Everything done over the phone and internet. I had no in-person contact with anyone. I may have sent them a scan of my drivers license but I don't remember. It was a lender I had no previous history with.

- Review inspector's report sent to me electronically, go back to visit the property to review findings in person. Proposed compromises to resolve matters found submitted electronically. It was accepted electronically, work to be done in coming days. Return home.

- Received legally required sellers' disclosures by email or maybe a link in an email. Reviewed and accepted electronically.

- I received links to a bunch of escrow paperwork. All signed electronically

- My down payment into escrow made by wire transfer.

- Escrow closed. Returned to the area to get keys from our realtor.

- Received all final documents by email or doclink, I forget which.

Two visits to the property and no other in person contact with anyone. No paper documents exchanged or signed. It was easy and very satisfactory.

We’ve e-signed documents umpteen times for properties both in and out of state. Hard to imagine not having that option.

I was a notary years ago. Elmer’s right regarding the ”ridiculously easy test” that was also open book.

My last property transaction was in 2023. There were still some escrow forms that needed a wet signature; that is, could not be completed through Docusign. Some bank transactions, like reinvestment of CD funds, also require an in-person signature.

If I can sign electronically, I do.

Yes, to e-sign.

I sold a family business this year that operated out of Alberta and Quebec. E-signing made things easier.

Lawyers in NY can automatically be notaries, so I'm a notary, but I never took a test (I'm guessing the state bar exam is a little more rigorous than the notary test, but I can't personally attest to that.) Anyway, it's not that being a notary is difficult, but a halfway decent notary will at least do some perfunctory check as to the signing person's identity. That has never been an issue for me, as I have only notarized documents for people I know, either people in my company, in the non-profit I volunteer for, or just acquaintances that need it done.

Over the years, e-signatures have become totally accepted on all but the most critical of documents. So contracts worth tens or hundreds of millions of dollars are commonly e-signed these days. But as common as e-signing is, I've still had to notarize plenty of documents, even recently.

i can see esign being about as secure (or not) as a signature, but as good as a notary?

Speaking just from personal experience, I’ve signed for my wife both electronically and with pen, so that’s not very secure. But a close friend who’s a notary never puts her stamp on something unless every rule is followed. I'll admit that's been annoying at times, but I respect it. Still not as secure as a signature guarantee. Do those still exist?

That said, if I were given a choice of e-signing or getting a notary, I’d e-sign every time.

I've e-signed investment approvals and transfers, put together by my credit union advisor, whom I trust.

" the lawyer sending me the papers in the mail, I'd have to find a notary, sign and send back. "

Why wouldn't they email you the documents for you to print and have notarized? I don't think of the mail as a particularly secure method for legal document transmission, unless it's registered mail that requires a signature to receive.

If the lawyer would be satisfied with a DocuSign signature, I'm OK with that.

FOAS, I recall getting a Medallion Signature Guarantee to transfer some securities when Daddy died in the mid-90s. However, when Mother died and when DH died (both within the past 8 years), I do not recall doing that. I think the difference was that Daddy held actual paper certificates, whereas Mother and DH had book entry accounts. Can you even hold actual paper certificates any more?

" Why wouldn't they email you the documents for you to print and have notarized? "

Simple. To make sure that the bundle of pages signed and returned contains all the pages in the document in the right order. In addition to date, name, ID document submitted, and Title of document, the number of pages get counted and entered in the notary's bound logbook. If it ever mattered, should the document notarized have the wrong number of pages in the log entry, perhaps the notarization or the agreement itself could be challengeable. When we sent documents to clients, either to sign or to execute, we always bound documents first to ensure the client received a complete package and acted on same

Is this maybe another gap in your years of business experience?

" I recall getting a Medallion Signature Guarantee to transfer some securities when Daddy died in the mid-90s "

At least in my state, notaries are licensed by the state. As silly as that sounds. There's a legal process to confirm the identity of the individual, however reliable or not reliable it is. No other parties are involved.

Signature Medallions are an extra-legal animal of the banking and financial services sectors and take place following rules of each company or, if different, the sector they're in. It's a guarantee of the institution issuing the medallion. With no legal significance.

" Why wouldn't they email you the documents for you to print and have notarized? "

Email attachments are NOT secure. When I was either sent or provided documents, I was given a link requiring me to go to a secure website, sign-in with a pre-arranged credential, and then get access. Such traffic, including download, is encrypted. Email attachments aren't unless prepared to require a separately transmitted password. But software that can handle that is less secure than the first way I explained.

Print and sign before returning a hard copy - addressed just above.

" Email attachments are NOT secure. "

Correct. Neither is the mail, so since both are not secure, I'd go for the faster version that kills fewer trees.

Important documents are never sent in the mail like grocery store coupons. More normally delivered in person, or by courier or using services that represent providing some degree of security. Important documents will require a signature confirming delivery so the recipient can't deny receipt.

Again, more gaps, eh?

what a lot of people don't understand about notaries is that by notarizing a document, they aren't verifying its veracity. they are simply verifying that the person signing it actually IS that person and it was signed in their presence.

i was a notary for many, many years in several law offices. i notarized signatures a few times every week. i also had people walk in off the street that i didn't know from adam/eve and ask for a notary. if they didn't have a photo i.d., i sent them on their way without my signature.

when i retired, i burned my notary seal in a campfire.

" More normally delivered in person, or by courier or using services that represent providing some degree of security. "

Right, but sushipup2 specifically said "mail" in her post. Maybe you missed that part.

" when i retired, i burned my notary seal in a campfire. "

Smart move!

what a lot of people don't understand about notaries is that by notarizing a document, they aren't verifying its veracity. they are simply verifying that the person signing it actually IS that person and it was signed in their presence.

Actually my understanding is that verifying it’s me signing in their presence is ALL they’re required to do. Which leaves me scratching my head when they go beyond that.

I don’t remember the exact circumstances, but not long ago my sister, mom and I went to our local Chase branch to get some documents notarized. Powers of Attorney or somesuch. The guy looked over the forms and didn’t like something, and wouldn’t notarize. We had to redo something. (This was not Chase paperwork.)

On a funnier note, also recently I went to a TD Bank to get a parental consent form notarized. Seeing that it was from a tattoo parlor, the older lady sneered, “I would NEVER let my daughter do that.” After a brief awkward exchange I said something about how my daughter could always just take it out and be left with nothing but a small scar. “Oh! Just a piercing? Well that’s no big deal!” Her whole demeanor changed. While I could criticize her for not minding her own business, the whole thing left me feeling so much better because I wasn’t exactly thrilled about allowing the piercing. Her reaction put it in perspective - no big deal.

Actually my understanding is that verifying it’s me signing in their presence is ALL they’re required to do. Which leaves me scratching my head when they go beyond that.

that's correct. if i was not well acquainted with the person, i always asked for a valid photo i.d. if they could not produce one, i would not sign or seal their signature.

I don’t remember the exact circumstances, but not long ago my sister, mom and I went to our local Chase branch to get some documents notarized. Powers of Attorney or somesuch. The guy looked over the forms and didn’t like something, and wouldn’t notarize. We had to redo something. (This was not Chase paperwork.)

unless times have changed over the 8 years i've been retired, that ^ scenario is NOT in the scope of a notary's duty nor is it any of his/her business how forms are worded. a notary, as you already know, is simply there to verify a signature. something else i would never do is to notarize a signature that i did not actually SEE being done. oftentimes, i would have someone come to me to have a document they had signed outside of my presence notarized and couldn't grasp the concept of me denying to do it because i didn't witness their signature. otoh, i couldn't for the life of me understand how they couldn't understand why i wouldn't do it. 🙄 i remember once having my boss come out of his office and ask me to notarize a signature done by the client sitting in his office behind a closed door. i (politely as i could) told him i couldn't do it. he was exasperated with me but did understand my position. i simply printed a fresh signature page, took it into his office and witnessed the signature.

I remember the circumstance. As we understood it, the document did not require my mom’s signature to be notarized. So we had her sign at home and went to the bank to have OUR signatures notarized. He read the form and interpreted it differently and would not notarize ours without notarizing hers. We tried unsuccessfully to make our case. So we had to reprint, pack mom up and bring her to the bank. To me that seemed outside of the scope of his duties. We weren’t asking him to notarize hers. But whatever.

" sushipup2 specifically said "mail" in her post. Maybe you missed that part. "

No, I saw that in passing, and figured her word choice was most likely generic and not specific. In my decades of work sending and receiving such things, the mail was never used.

Of the people I've been exposed to who provide a notary service, few (judging from their main gigs) had the training or education to read and understand the nature of any but the simplest documents they were presented with.

Heck, you can get a signature notarized at most UPS stores. The people working behind the counter do it. Or sometimes it's the owner.

Yes is was USPS, Priority mail.

When I had to get Medallions for some of my dad’s assets, it was a pain. Some institutions would not provide a Medallion if the asset was not held at or associated with the institution.

bpath, I also had to get medallions for some of my dad’s assets that were securities. Our local bank branch didn’t provide the service, so they sent me to one of their very small locations (inside a grocery store) that did.

FOAS, there is what's called a notary "block" that is a paragraph used indicating the necessary information, i.e., state & county/the signer's name/a statement acknowledging the signer's identity and then a line for that person's signature and below that, the notary's signature, seal and his/her commission expiration date. there is always a separate notary block for each person signing a document. if there wasn't one for your mom's signature, that would indicate that her signature didn't require notarizing.

again, this sounds to me like someone taking unauthorized control over who signs what.

" Yes is was USPS, Priority mail. "

Then there was nothing sensitive about it needing to be kept confidential, which was the nature of what I and my clients' lawyers dealt with.