How big are the plants?

Now is the best time to unpot them, place them in a tub of water, wash out all pot media, and plant them properly in the ground.

Why wait?

When I hear the term 'heel them in' is what we'd hear when planting bare root trees for the forestry department using a 'Hoedad'.

That tool would put a slit in the ground so you could stick a pine seedling, roots first into the slit and then with your foot, you would stomp next to the slit with your Heel to close the slit.

So, I would say plant them now before the weather deteriorates.

Not going to root wash it.......

I don't mind root washing:correction most plant material but generlly those varieties haven't died on mine. I think I have lost 3 Conifers to date....and two of them being #10. Kinda.......sorta....hesitant when it comes to disturbing these things and firs

I did that once on a #10 and I think I killed it because of that....It was planted in early spring, complete full root wash and by mid summer, I had my blower turned in it's direction and when I saw needles go flying, I realized it was gone ....even before I even saw brown.

all the others, I literally planted, left them alone, confirmed they lived and this year, finally worked up the cajones - I started excavating the top and in more than a few, it was received and planted about 4-5 inches too deep. It had advantagous roots that became thick that grew as part of the tree ....I crossed my fingers, cut all those upper roots off and each tree had like 4-5 *nubs* I left on it for dieback, to be cut flush in 2026....so far, trees have not declined this season.

New acqusitions are #3. 2 JWP and one Hybrid Koreana+Lasiocarpa.

Still have a pic of of the roots I pruned off.....this year

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/a0capx2mn3vbcnn2wxsjh/IMG_2294.jpeg?rlkey=l6ibiliad7bllfkjckt7ak8oc&st=c0o76iq5&dl=0

" it will need at least a few inches of soil removed and possibly some root corrected ---- as all container plants go. "

No they don't :-)) Better nurseries do not sell container compromised conifers. I seldom purchase larger than a 1 or 2 gallon plant (smaller is better) and none of my collection of conifers has ever suffered from root issues.

Like Bill, I'd plant now.

Well, yes, on larger potted plant it's a whole different story.

Still, if you can soak a larger pot bound tree, it still helps because it hydrates the root ball and that's less stressful on the tree once you get working on it.

And if you don't address the problems of a larger, rootbound, potted tree, it will be trouble down the road.

Remember to check around the top of the root ball to make sure you find the root flare and that there are no circling roots at the top.

This video shows how to 'box' a root ball, so the roots grow straight out from the mass.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdPAxrt9jak

eta: the example in the video really isn't that bad. Smaller roots will grow outward on their own.

The boxing technique is generally intended for large, woody, knotted roots inside a too long neglected pot but I can't find that video at this time. The technique is the same.

Just lifted them. The Hybrid is nice, big and completely rootbound....kinda like a #5 that is ready to be upotted for next years sale season I suppose. Had to give it a few good rasps on the side for it to even budge.

One #3 JWP is perfect. Can plant right away

Another JWP, just short of I see 2 potential but small thin roots that are not heading down but making a turn I'd prefer to grow for at least 1-2 seasons (just so I know I received it alive and it was alive for 1 or 2growing seasons), before I deal with root correction....just haven't had the best luck ....so far 3 dead on me.

Firs are like the golden unicorn......I tread very lightly ....

It's a slow learning progression. Big ones are not the best when it comes to planting:establishment....forget the instant appeal..

Slowly, I think #1 is just perfect in starting development......smaller root system, but then again, smaller plant. It depends on the seller though....

Since you mentioned Box Rootball....

Not in the world of conifer, but I received a hideous #1 JM that had a root like this...basically in a liner for way too long. It was fairy rare, haven't seen it available anywhere else

It also leafed out and died the same season. I would like to blame it on the product recevied.....

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/cdjt8r12cy1y468ouwoud/IMG_2394.jpeg?rlkey=26l1ll1gqq5u0tgsml9z1v3nu&st=888taq44&dl=0

Let's not be concerned about different sellers, etc.

If the plant is healthy at the time of purchase, it generally has enough stored energy to put up quite a fight before surrendering its inborn assignment to develop and mature.

And root problems can vary in intensity but if delt with at the right time of year, it's not that big of a deal unless so bad it's to the point of no return. We hope that doesn't happen and I've worked on some that were pretty bad and had success with those.

Spring and Fall (winter in some areas) are the two best times to mess with roots.

Once the growing season starts, and you do root surgery, it's a little like throwing you purchase into the garbage when it arrives. It's going to react badly and go into shock. Some plants take shock better than others but that's why we try to keep stress, for any plant, to a minimum by doing this at the right times of the season.

I directly planted several trees, into the ground, earlier this season (June), without messing with the roots even though I knew they had major problems. I did this because the trees had already started to grow, and it would be trouble to try doing it then.

Just recently, because it's now the time for correcting root problems, I used a hose and washed the soil aways from those trees in the ground and did my root surgery.

The trees acted like they had no idea that I worked on their roots.

And since then, they have been establishing more roots and photosynthesizing energy to be stored up for the winter, during this warm, late summer and soon Fall weather.

Now you can do like you say, store or plant them over winter, then before they break dormancy, you can work on them then.

BUT...I think like this, and you might like this idea.

You have received these potted trees that are done with this season's growth and are hardening off for the winter. They are not as sensitive to getting their roots worked on now because their metabolism has slowed greatly and the demand for water and nutrients are reduced, compared to what they were this spring and summer.

So, if you unpot them now and do what needs to be done, root wise and plant them, you're done, and the plant can settle down and begin elongating roots and build up food for the roots to store up for next spring.

So, next spring, the tree already has some established roots, full of energy, you don't have to upset the tree at all anymore, and the only thing the tree has to focus on is growing unimpeded for the new season.

And generally, a guy (or gal) is busy enough with spring activities to have all kinds of things left over from last season.

What's not to like about that? I've done it many times now with great success.

And these trees suddenly dying after a reasonable method of transplanting, could that be from a different reason like root rot (too much water?) or some sort of other disease?

Again, Trees want to grow and generally, it takes quite a level of what they don't like to get them to shut down.

I know we're discussing this in the fir sub. And youtube seems to infer those bonsai guys can literally bare root the thing and be fine.

Maybe just due to my bad track record with pines, is the main hesitation on getting rid of 60% ++ of the growing medium in the process of root correction, if not trying to get to the center to see what's hidden in the core *removing more of the received potted medium* in the process. I'm never going to root wash a fir until this fear of killing it goes away ;-0

I like fall as it has time to develop however long it develops into winter and then spring....versus doing this in spring, as then summer heat comes along.

I forgot whatever the statistical #'s is.....isn't it like 70% root growth in spring, and around 30% or so in the fall.

Hence the OP , and debating to do it now or is it --safer-- when it's dormant: semi-dormant.

Actually,

The roots elongate up to 60% of the entire season's growth in the fall. Something to do with hormones that tell the roots to do that when the winter buds set.

Winter bud set is a good way to tell that conifers are ready to have their roots messed with and can happen as early as July here, depending on moisture conditions. :-)

After killing a Nordmann Fir I bought middle of May this year (it rained a lot, root rot), I bought another June 6th.

Initially, I placed the knotted mess into a slightly larger pot without any root disturbance. It ended up I could've just put it in the ground but the advantage to a pot was, I could water with my standard fertilizer mix (I always get good growth with this method).

A month later, I notice the winter buds were forming. I wasn't sure if the new pot was getting crowded with new roots, so I was getting anxious to plant it in the ground.

When I went to plant it, I noticed some new growth still growing at a few of the branch tips so hesitant to do any root work so slipped it out of the pot and put it directly in the ground with little if any root disturbance (the 511 crumbled some, taking it out of the pot).

7-7-2025.

On 8-13-2025 I finally washed around the root area and did the best I could to fix it.

Just to give you an idea, this is what it looked like before I got started.

It was grown in a 3x3x5 pot band for a couple too many seasons.

I didn't get pictures of the procedure but noticed the fine roots had elongated some and I managed to straighten out a few of the longer gnarled roots and some of the fine roots too. I didn't have to do a lot of cutting on this one, partially because it wasn't all that big of a root ball to begin with. ;-)

9-7-2025: The winter buds have set completely now, I've increased the mulch thickness, and I'll be putting a sunshade/wind buffer on in a week or so. There should be a month yet for the roots to elongate further.

No reason, other than an incredibly hard polar vortex, that it should die now. {fingers crossed}.

:o)

eta: I planted this on a mound jic we have very abnormally wet weather again at some point.

I need to get into training myself to buy the 1G.....did some discovery of the 3G that I said was ready to be a 5G...

I read your post Bill. I digested it....then when I started the discovery and saw the fused roots...I bit the bullet...and started a bit more on correction...

I already used a 3 Prong Root Rake and removed about 3 inches from the top and a good chuck of rootbound roots from the sides yesterday.

I started with a root pick and started following the leader.....and saw more aerial roots and I had more depth to uncover....and spied a fused mass, which prompted a semi-root wash

If it lives, great. If not, the next replacement will be a 1G

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/e0r03uo8ikmpr9g01xogl/IMG_2683.jpeg?rlkey=czrssdgupvaz546ca3nrtp4r6&st=nud6xk5a&dl=0

Thanks, a1an.

Can I ask one more question?

Why do you wait?

Is there some information behind this reasoning?

To me, woody, gnarled roots are only going to get worse, bigger and more gnarled over time.

What am I missing?

I was in the the middle of editing the post and added a pic for context....

Okay,

but I'd be careful with that 'Root Rake', you want to keep as many of the fine roots as possible.

The more, fine roots that get broke off during surgery, the more compromised the plant becomes because It's the fine roots that the plant uses to 'Feed' and water itself.

And new roots, don't grow to replace them, until next spring, which could be too late.

From the original potted depth, I must have removed at least 4-6 inches in total.

At least 3 inches on the 1st pass...

Since I was getting a bit more agressive today. it was a point of no return for me. All In and if it lives, it lives......no need to revisit this after planting.

So today, I ended cutting off 3 or 4 higher advantageous root, 2 or 3 circulars....and just a few thicker roots that were doing nothing.

The root rake is not a full sized cultivator.

It's a itty bitty 3 prong rake. It just makes things a bit faster than a single prong.

Are you talking about plants that you are turning them into bonsai?

Sorry if I misunderstood. I thought you were buying trees to plant in the ground.

But I will add that if you're taking fine roots off that are not part of twisted roots that have to be removed, that could be why so many of your trees are dying.

Yes, plants into dirt...

Nay on Bonsai.

All this root work.....I probably would have not done at all.....bearing my concern about killing the plant. But as I started digging and saw the glob of fused roots, there was no turning back today on root correction.

..

Well, I'm still a little confused.

When I work on the roots of a tree to plant in the ground, I take great pains to not removed any of the fine roots. The only ones that get removed are if they are connected to the deformed roots that get snipped, and only then, if they can't be straightened enough to just leave them be.

The fewer fine roots that are removed, the more chance the tree has surviving.

Am I getting this, correct? Are you actually raking through most of the root mass with a comb like tool? I can only think that you are damaging fine roots in the process.

If there's nothing wrong with parts of root mass, those parts gets left alone except for a little teasing with my fingers to help untangle them so they can be laid out in the right direction.

I wanted to get it to the correct depth so yes, the fine roots where it was soiled too deep, I ended up raking out and then cutting it flush .

In order to make out where some of the thicker roots were going directionally ....this is a #3 rootball and not a #1....I did have to rake out the roots in order to trace and ID, mainly just trying to remove the obvious J and U's and there was more than a few roots hitting that knot in the pic posted causing them to grow in all sorts of contorted directions.

Okay, well, if it works for you, then I don't really need to understand it. ;-)

That picture you posted appears to be a real challenge and I hope it goes well for you.

My only suggestion, is if you are cutting more roots than the tree can stand and they're dying, try having your tree delivered in the spring and do the root work then.

Spring is when the tree will make new roots at the cut ends, of the old roots, so the tree doesn't have to wait as long before it has workable new roots again.

I agree in a hot summer area, you'd have to take measures like sunshades and frequent watering to ensure the trees survival.

And let us know how this one turns out. I would find it interesting to see how it goes with such a challenging root mass. Almost overwhelming!

Thanks!

bill