Well, I messed up again. I went out to do some work cleaning up the garden, and picked up about 7 or 8 gallon of sweet potatoes, a lot of them were small, but they will make slips. I will plant no more than 1/5 as many slips next year. If I had my slips in a raised bed with good soil so I could just scratch the potatoes out by hand, it would save me a lot of work.

I definitely prefer getting sweet potatoes out of my pots with the nice fluffy soil.

Kim, I hope to amend a nice size area next year to grow sweet potatoes. I can afford to buy all the potting soil that it would take to make an area as large as I would like to have. I would like to have a deep raised bed with a hardware cloth bottom, but at my age it is just too late to invest in anything like that, but I do hope to be able to make a couple of rows of sweet potatoes, and a row of winter squash or pumpkin, those keep pretty well for me. I can tell that I am really slowing down, and may not be able to do a garden next year.

Larry, if all else fails, give mineral tubs a try. I put potting soil in mine with fertilizer and the tabs. I planted three plants in did just as well as the ones I planted one plant. The only problem I had was I planted my mineral tubs too late. But if I’m on top of it next yearand get them in early, I should get a better crop out of my tubs. And I like it because I can sit in a chair and scratch around in the dirt and get them out.

Kim, I hope to do better next year. I tried a sweet potato in a mineral tub a couple of years ago and did not do well at all, but I don't know much about mineral tub growing. I will have to do better about watering and feeding to produce much in a mineral tub, but I can see where mineral tubs would be great. It seems like I can do so much more with my equipment, but I don't have anything to harvest potatoes with, that is easy to operate. this year I had to have a lot of help fro rhe kids, but the kids have a lot of other things to do other than helping an old man.

Larry, my sweet potatoes did very well in mineral tubs especially this year. If your kids need to help you dump them, it goes really quickly so you wouldn't have to ask them for hours of help--probably less than an hour. Just put out a tarp or piece of plastic. Dump. Then we scoop the soil back into the tub. The tubs won't grow the amounts that you like to grow, tho. That's the only downside. But, between our two tubs and a 3'x5' area in the raised hoop house bed, Tom and I have all we can eat this season. But, we're only growing for ourselves.

We ate a lot of sweet potato dishes last week so I'm taking a break from them this week. lol

Kim, I like my Vego beds because if I'm super tired, I can pull up a chair and work on them--harvesting, planting, killing squash bugs, even watering. Sorta the same as with your tubs.

Tom is off work today so we're going to take some things to donation and to recycling. We found a place the recycles Styrofoam. Unfortunately I haven't given up Sonic drinks in my life. Usually have one or two a week.

Then, he has a doctor appt and then we'll go to look for some jeans for me.

If there's time, I'll start pulling out dead plants this afternoon.

I glanced at a few things last night, but didn't go to the hoop house or into the kitchen garden. The stuff in the Greenstalk is good. In fact I harvested kale from it last night. They're cool season things plus right next to our brick house which stays warmer. The stuff in the Vego beds are goners--squash and Roma tomatoes.

I spent way too much time cooking dinner after work, but the homemade tomato soup was just lovely. I pulled out the Weston tomato press to get the skins and seeds out. The only thing it was missing was basil, although I used some dried Italian seasoning. The fancy sandwiches were really tasty but the bread I chose sorta fell apart.

What are y'all up to today?

Jennifer, I have sorta wanted to try sweet potatoes in a tub again. The time I tried before, they were in a place that I think should have had more sun. I bought supplies to make a lifting/dumping harness that I could use on my small tractor, so I don't think dumping will be a problem. I also bought a heavy 8 x 10 tarp to use. I have 10 mineral tubs, how many pounds of potatoes do you think I could grow in those 10 tubs ?

I have plenty of people that I think would come and help, but I sure hate to ask for help. It seems as tho everyone is so busy with life, and just don't have the time to stop, I guess maybe I was the same way, but every time I have ask for help, I got it, and everyone has said " just let me know", but that is hard to do for someone that has always done everything for himself.

Larry, most of my mineral tubs I put three plants per tub and some of them I put one plant. I wanted to see if I would get more potatoes per tub with the one plant but I did not. I don’t dump my pots. I just sit in a chair and dig them out with a small shovel. I did scoop some of the soil out into a container and then put it back when I was done. I think I got about 40 pounds out of four mineral tubs. I did not count the mineral tubs that were in too much shade. I know better next year, and I am going to put a line of mineral tubs on the east end of my garden and they will be specifically for the sweet potatoes. There is a corner of my garden that gets the most sun and is not shaded by the shed or the tree. And I’m going to be more mindful of that next year. I’m also going to finish my drip line project so that it will run to each and every pot.

Kim, I must try the tubs again, I don't think that I have ever averaged 10 pounds of potatoes per plant. The best I have done was 47 potatoes for 2 plants. I did not weigh them, but they may have come out to 20 pounds. I think the best that I have ever done was close to 30 pounds of potatoes with 2 Red Wine Velvet plants, but the potatoes did not keep well. I am not sure if that was from me feeding too much, or just the way the potatoes were. I only tried the RWV plants for 2 or 3 years, I could not get then to keep as well as the Covington. I can almost bet on at least 2 pounds of Covington, and I am not sure if I have ever gotten that low of an average.

If you care to check my the best I have ever done with the Covington, You can chech my facebook for last year on Sept 18 2024, I have a picture posted. I don't know how to repost a picture.

I really like the Covington.

Kim, I am more satisfied with the Covington than any other sweet potato I have grown. I just had 2 small potatoes for dinner tonight. I just wrap them in a wet paper towel and toss them in the microwave for 3 to 6 minutes. The potatoes will be better when they are cured, but they are not bad now. Madge makes them a lot better than I do, but I don't waste the time on them that she does, and I don't have to have all the trimmings that she uses.

Larry, I should have weighed my sweet potatoes. I don't know the weight. But, it sounds like you have a good set up ready if you choose to grow that way.

My tubs are in sun until the late afternoon.

I'll be interested to see how the fall potatoes did. I can't remember if they are Yukon Gold or the red one that Rick liked. I'm going to leave them in the hoop house until the end of November. There was a tiny bit of damage where the frost nipped them, but they are mostly healthy and green. If these do well, I'll do fall potatoes every year. I've already had to throw out some bad spring ones. They are in the burn pile. I'm going to cover them with the soil from the super hot peppers that Rick brought over. They are in buckets and obviously dead now from the freeze. We won't grow those again in buckets. I only planted them because Rick had already brought them over. They did SO well this year. Rick would have enjoyed that.

Peppers do well in 5 gallon buckets if anyone is interested in growing them that way. They really need to be watered once a day in the hot summer.

Anyway, back to the potatoes. A couple of years ago, we got a 5 gallon bucket of "burn pile" potatoes. lol

Wouldn't it be a dream to have a root cellar and cold room? I wonder what it costs to run a cold room.....

I'm going to work today at 1230, but plan on heading outside in an hour or so and cleaning out dead peppers and tomatoes. I need to cover the office but will stay late and work on the kids Christmas program tonight.

If I can get all the dead plants cleared out, that would be SO good.

Most of the herbs survived the frost other than the lemon balm and burgundy amaranth.

Larry, I went back and reread that post because I did not get 10 pounds per plant. I got 10 pounds per pot with three plants in one pot. The one that was by itself only gave me about 3 pounds. And one pot with one plant gave me one potato, but it was in the shade.

Kim, that is about what I got. The only row I weighed gave me 97 pounds from 30 plants. I doubt that any other row exceeded that average, some were much less because of being planted late, and having too much shade..

I have a lot of fingerlings that I want to play with. I want to see what happens if I just fry them whole.

We are going to Ft. Smith, I hope to see an old friend, so many of my friends are getting old and worn out, just like Madge and me.

This week's thread is the Larry, Kim, and Jennifer Show. lol

And, I've not got much really.

Yesterday I did start working on my garden plan for next year, but only had a few minutes. I drew an outline of my kitchen garden and will try to figure out where to put everything I want to grow.

I have 2 varieties on my "buy" list. I didn't get far.

Tom and I are trying to decide if we want to put lights on our house for the holidays. We love to do it, but the newer lights are cheaply made and start having dark spots after the first year. Very frustrating. I wish I would have kept my older ones that were easy to replace bulbs. The new ones don't work that way. Once they're out, they're out. Same with prelit Christmas trees.

Anyway, that's all I've got. I'm about to eat my salad made from garden veg.

Hope everyone is doing well.

I have been working on a tractor and brush hog today. The brush hog that I have been working on has not been used in a few years, and needed a lot of TLC. I have 4 brush hogs, and this one is the smallest, so I can get into tighter spaces with it, but takes a lot longer to get the job finished. The only tractor that is running does not have the power to pull the larger hogs. Everything I own is old and worn out like I am.

I am not going to be doing any work today. I got food poisoning or something last night. It was awful trying to get home from Church. I was an hour plus from home. I think it was more an allergy to something I ate then food poisoning, but whatever it was it was horrible. Now I’m left feeling like a limp dish rag. So all my plans for today are out the window. I will clean out the car and load for Market and that is it. I can’t wait to start planning the garden for next year. I’m gonna be making it smaller actually because of some misunderstanding with the neighbor so I’m gonna be pulling my fence back and tightening it up a little bit. I won’t lose much but I will have to find a new place to put okra next year.

I did plant some garlic yesterday. I am going to rake the leaves soon to mulch it in

Yikes, Kim. Did you ever figure out what food item made you sick?

Sure hope you're feeling better today.

No but I feel almost back to normal

Kim, glad you're about back to normal. Hope your market went well.

Hope everyone else had a good day--relaxing, productive--whatever you needed it to be.

We got the Christmas lights on the house but won't turn them on until Thanksgiving night.

Tomorrow, I'm going to continue with garden clean up after work.

I got some free strawberry plants from marketplace. A lady was downsizing her strawberry bed and was giving them away. It was a blessing, even if the timing is a little off. I had a setback after the market, but hopefully I will have the strength to get them planted today

That's great about the strawberries, Kim. Not so great about your setback.

A few of the strawberries that I transplanted look pretty good. Some died.

I was able to get the backyard tidied up. The beds around the chicken pen, the Vego beds and all the pots. I also dumped the horseradish and will try to get some fire cider made maybe on Wednesday.

Sure hope that rains shows up. We are miserably dry. There's few beets, turnips, radishes, and carrots that could use a good drink. Will probably water tomorrow.

We are expecting rain as well
My carrots didn’t come up. I might replant. Larry are you out there?

Kim, I'm going to go back to putting carrots in the Vego bed. They did the best for me there. Although, my fall planted ones are ready to pull in the late winter/early spring. My turn around with carrots is much slower than a lot of people. And, I've tried many different varieties. Next year, I might do the entire bed in carrots.

I left work early around 330 yesterday so I could get home to water and check some chicken situations before dark. It takes a half hour to get home. My main roo, Jean Luc Picard, is getting older. He hatched in our coop July of 2018. His son, my other roo, is starting to dominate Jean Luc. I don't like it, although know it's how nature does things. Anyway, I've been moving Jean Luc to the little coop with the two hens that fly out of their yard. I don't want him to get beat up. They all go back to the coop at dark to roost for the night. There's a couple of other situations with injuries to hens.

It's hard to leave work and it's dark by the time I get home so I can't inspect everything. I'm grateful Tom feeds them on these nights.

Sunday night, I was able to pull out dead plants in the backyard. And dump the horseradish pot. I'm going to start with fresh soil now. The thing is, any little piece of root will grow a plant and then you'll have too many plants in one pot. SO, I'm shooting for a bigger root next year with only one plant. I don't need a lot of horseradish. Just enough for fire cider. The cost of organic horseradish root is a lot.

I wish I had fire cider already made. I have some kind of cold beginning. I'm taking elderberry oxymel every couple of hours and took zinc anc C this morning too. And pickled garlic. Hopefully will nip this in the bud. I just don't feel great and it's going to be a long work week. I won't have a day at home until Saturday.

Larry, check in when you can.

A shot of apple cider vinegar will help as well. Definitely doesn’t taste good but it’s worth a try. That sounds good with the carrots Jennifer. One year I planted carrots in a very nice day in January and they had time to germinate before it turned cold again, and they grew better than any carrots I have ever had. I harvested the most beautiful carrots in end of May or June that year. I want to say it was the beginning of 24. I still have some in the refrigerator that are fermented and they are still crispy and delicious. You know the beginning of sugar season at Halloween runs until February 14 approximately has a lot of people’s immune systems whacked. And they start passing things around. A friend came over to visit and she was just absolutely enthused with my herbs that smelled so good she could not believe it. And She asked what do you do with all these herbs? Well, you know that business I have on the side selling herb blends. That was funny. She just did not realize that I actually worked that hard for this business. But yes, yes I do. And she got to see actually how small my garden is and how compact everything is growing and then she got to see inside my house and was absolutely amazed that I can do anything in here that made me feel better because sometimes I feel like I’m just acting like a baby. I am gonna wait until after the rain to harvest because the road dust is so nasty right now and everything is covered with the road dust but I am going to harvest a bunch of herbs as soon as it rains in the next day or two.

I am here, just been trying to get a little work done. I have been brush hogging, and messed up the last tractor that was running. I was grumbling around trying to repair junk when Madge came in from the beauty shop yesterday. Madge said, "change clothes, and lets go buy a new tractor. Today I have been trying to get some seat time on the tractor. They just don't make a tractor that operator friendly to an Old, Blind, deaf, Dumb man, but, anyway, I have been trying to figure out how to operate my new tractor. I don't like all of these safety features, but I am going to have to figure out how to get by with them.

I am going to have to modify my garden because this new tractor is not as nimble as my little Kubota, but I am not sure, if, or when I will be able to get the kubota operating properly, and I am just not man enough to get the others running at this time. I guess that I am just brain damaged, as long as I can still climb up on a tractor, I want to keep going.

I have to figure out ways I can use my old junky equipment. Everything that I have has been repaired, and modified, so I am not sure what I will have to do now, hopefully very little.

Finally. Larry I am glad you are having fun learning your new tractor. By spring you will be zipping around that property.

Good to hear from you, Larry. Have fun with that new tractor. You'll get it figured out.

Kim, I feel better. I brought the elderberry oxymel with me to work yesterday and took a swig every couple of hours. I don't feel sick any longer really. Usually if I can get it at the beginning, I can kick it with C, zinc, elderberry and pickled garlic. And fire cider if I have it. The oxymel has apple cider vinegar in it.

I haven't made a Four Thieves vinegar since covid. I should bring that back. I remember when everything shut down, I drove immediately to Natural Grocers to stock up on apple cider vinegar with the mother, witch hazel, and some herbs that I didn't already have.

No time for gardening today or tomorrow. Hoping for rain.

Awesome Jennifer. I am glad everybody is doing well. Good to see you George

I’m still around. This is our busy season at work. Get your flu shots, this year is going to be bad thanks to a rouge mutation of the virus that wasn’t planned on. I currently have the plague thats been passed around at work, but it’s on the downside.

Park Seed has 25% off right now with the code on their site. I think I’m going to order a few things. My plan is to rearrange where I plant things next year, and I do have a couple more beds to put together. And I haven’t planted garlic yet.

My sweet potato harvest was disappointing. I’ll have to supplement them just for Thanksgiving. Are they heavy feeders? I had a lot of roots that led to nothing.

I do have several boxes of tomatoes that I’m trying to get ripened for Thanksgiving. My fall tomato harvest is always my best.

I do not think sweet potatoes are heavy. See if you want a main crop at the main stem. The more nitrogen, the more vines we get also they like a lot of water. Otherwise the rates will keep looking for sufficient water instead of making potatoes.

Ugh! Rain missed us tonight! Other areas nearby are getring it tho. I can see the lightning and hear the thunder.

anyone else get rain?

It just started here. Jennifer what is that oxymel you said you take?

It's an elderberry oxymel, Kim. Elderberries, apple cider vinegar (with mother) and raw honey.

The elderberry syrup I try to remember to use when people around me are sick. The oxymel I use when I can feel myself getting sick.

An oxymel is just an infusion made with herbs, vinegar, and honey. If I remember correctly, "oxys" in Greek means "acid" and "meli" in Greek means "honey".

Fancy clubs are using oxymels to make fancy drinks now.

I'm super bummed. It's dark at work. Looks like it's about to pour. But, after looking at the radar, it appears there is a split in the rain. Guess what? The split is in my area. It did that last night too. We get a few sprinkles and that's it. I wanted a good 2 to 3 inch rain this week. Maybe something will bubble up in my area. We need it so badly. The backdoor and chicken coop door have a hard time closing when it gets this dry.

Yeah, it just started storming at work.

I keep thinking it would be such a good day to work inside at home. And maybe take a nap.

A nap in the rain is the best. Perfect time to dream about the garden. Since I can’t even open my door when it rains, it will be a dark day.. I can’t complain. I’ve had many weeks where I have had the door open and it is I can sit at the table and do my garden planning. The strawberries are going to love this rain. I did not get more carrots planted. I’ve had a rough week ever since I got really sick last week so just do what I can.

Howdy folks! I found you the other day and it took me a few days to read through every thing. Larry, congratulations on the new tractor! Madge is a gem.

I've had my share of health issues for the last few years, including memory problems. The garden has been going downhill because of it and I'm now cutting back to about 25% the space I used to have.

Jerreth and I have experimented with straw bale culture, putting three straw bales inside half of an ICB container

Though I like growing in the ground more, I have learned a lot with this method. Jerreth keeps reminding me that we may get to the point that we can't garden the regular way and the ICB containers might be all we can do.

My experience with both container and ICB straw bale growing, that I must fertilize my sweet potatoes or else I won't get much of a crop. At this point the only way I've used to fertilize is to water with Miracle Grow, once a week. With straw bale culture, even in an ICB container, one has to water almost every single day or things will get too dry. Yet harvest is a snap.

George, it’s great to see you here. I think about you often and especially with sweet potatoes. I guess I must have rich enough soil that extra fertilizer is not necessary. I do use compost tea in the early part of the year to get good, vigorous vines growing, but I don’t continue with that for the rest of the year. I do like those tote gardens. The harvesting part is the best about raised gardening because it makes it so much easier. I hope you can check in regularly and let us know what you’re up to and share your wisdom.

Larry I’m really proud for you that you got a new tractor. What did you get? We have 3 tractors that are big, big enough, and small.

1972 John Deere 4020, 2020 JD5075E , and a ‘83 Ford. We also have an older Club Car golf cart with a dump bed. Last week we got a new ride. A Kubota RTV 520 - I won it with a $25 raffle ticket from 4-H/FFA fundraiser. We were stunned, then delirious. We’ve looked at similar ones for a couple of years but couldn’t afford them so just kept repairing the golf cart.

It will allow us to continue to check cows, haul feed or whatever tools, or an occasional new calf, haul a sprayer, so many wonderful uses.

Certainly a good $25 investment- our kids were all in 4-H and FFA but $25 was a bit more than I normally would ever pay. Glad I did.

Jennifer can you make the elderberry oxymel from syrup? I like the taste of apple cider vinegar and honey in a tea. My mom treated us with ACV from time we were toddlers. The fire cider doesn’t interest me as I can’t stand horseradish. If it can be made from syrup would you share your recipe?

My hens are still not laying. They are mostly over molting. I have been trying fermenting laying pellets, it hasn’t made a difference. My daughter gave me 6 new pullets that she ordered for Walnut Woods. I’m excited, I’m keeping them separate for now mainly because my guinea will pick on them I’m sure. They won’t lay until next Spring.

We got 1 1/2” rain and were blessed to not get the hail. I planted Austrian peas and clover last week. I know it’s late but expect they’ll make a little and I can cut and feed to chickens this winter as well as being a cover crop.

Glenda , I bought a tractor brand that I have never seen before, but it had the things I was looking for. I wanted something low and wide and heavy for its size. I bought a Solis 24 H. I wanted to stay under 25 HP because of EPA regulations. I wanted it wide because I expect that my daughter will want it when I no longer need it, and she knows nothing about tractors, and I thought it would harder to tip a low, wide, heavy tractor. My daughter has bought a place over on lake Tenkiller, and I am sure that she will be wanting to do some projects, she is close to retirement now. My daughter will use my Kubota because it is a hydrostic transmission, she does not want to mess with the gear drive rigs. My new tractor is a lot more sure footed than the Kubota.

George, I have to agree about Madge being a gem. There was no need in us buying a tractor, I am not in any shape to fool with one, but I sure enjoy trying. The IBC tote growing sounds interesting, I have one with the top cut out of it, I may try to stick something in it next year.

Glenda, I looked at the Kubota gas RTV's when I bought my rig. The gas rigs look like they would be more fun, because they will run much faster. I bought the RTV X900, which has a small 3 cylinder diesel engine in it, it is slow and heavy, but a pretty good work horse. I think that you will really enjoy the RTV.

Glenda, our chickens are not laying either. We have Buckeyes, which are winter layers, but without artificial light they always stop laying around the beginning of November and start again in January. I believe they are laying at their maximum rate in February.

If you want to get eggs now, I bet you would (after a few weeks) if you set up a 40, 60 or 100 watt light bulb in the coop.

We love our Buckeyes. Back in 2011 we purchased some stock from a show breeder in KY and have kept them going. They're large, docile (yet willing to defend themselves) and probably 100% broody. Even in subzero weather we seldom lose eggs to freezing because theres always a volunteer to set on the eggs until we get them ;)

Buckeye

I'm starting to raise Welsh Harlequin ducks to help build up a surplus of eggs during the warmer months. I love duck eggs.

Larry, I got a Long 445 tractor back in 2020. It's old. It smokes and roars, but wow! It sure does the job! We've come a long way since I was dependent solely on a wheel barrow and you gave us a pull behind cart for our riding lawn mower.

George, I have a Long tractor also, they sure are work horses. My Long and John Deere are too large for most of the stuff I do now. The Long is 2510, not a lot different than your tractor.

This is my new tractor. This tractor is much easier to get on and operate, and I can drive it on the lawn without tearing the lawn up so badly. I can drive this tractor right up to the end of the handicap ramp.

Nice! Your Long is now practically a collectors' item, especially with the original front end loader.

The new tractor is very appropriate, for sure! Very nice!

Larry, I’m so happy for you getting a new and sounds like safer tractor

Larry -love your new tractor! That looks like my size machine. I can drive the new JD and the Ford but yours looks to be more user friendly, especially for an older person (me, not you) I like big enough to do the job but small and simple enough to not be intimidating. Madge must love you a lot to buy you a new tractor-you better take her to lunch more often 😂😂

Kim, I hope this tractoer is safer. I expect that my daughter well want it when I am gone, or at least that is one reason I picked this tractor, but it is a little rough for me to get use to. I have bypassed all of the safety features on my other tractors. This tractor wont let me take any short cuts, but I will get use to it.

Glenda, this tractor about as large an I want now, about as low as I want to go for gardening, and if it will hold up, it should do anything that I feel like doing.

Glenda, Madge and I are trying to do more things together, we went to Olive Garden for lunch, then late afternoon we went to the Dari for ice cream and fries.

Macmex, George is it? Bless your heart, you know I think the older I get the less I remember. As long as I’ve had chickens I always add a light in the Fall when the days get shorter - until this year. Thanks for the reminder - I plugged the timer in today. I’ll let you know when I start getting eggs again.

Look at all the activity here now!

Finally we have some conversation--not just boring ol' Jennifer rambling on.

Nice looking tractors!

Glenda, you could maybe just stir the apple cider vinegar into your elderberry syrup. When I make an oxymel, I squish the fresh elderberries lightly. Fill a jar with them halfway. Then pour apple cider vinegar about 2/3 full. Then top that with raw honey. Put it in the refrigerator for about a month and then strain it.

You can make an elixir with brandy (instead of apple cider vinegar) doing the same thing.

I think that a lot of people have memory problems as we get older, especially short term memory loss. I first noticed mine when not being able to remember peoples names, and how to remember how to re assemble something I have torn apart. I take medication, but I am not sure it is helping. I have noticed that many of my classmates have the same problem, some have gotten so bad that they don't want to live alone. Two of the class mate here locally are already gone because their dementia progress to the point that they died in a nursing home. This is the year that we turn 82, or more, so I guess it can be expected. I have one friend that is past 90, and his mind seem to be as sharp as a tack, but that is uncommon in my group of friends. Madge says that she has the same problem, she tells me that she is afraid to cook most things if she does not have a recipe, for fear of leaving something out, or how much of what to put in it.

I use to know everyone that lived in this area, I know nobody now, and it seems that a new home is popping up every week. I just wave back when they drive by, I cant see who they are. I guess that I am just "that old man that stands out in the garden with his overalls on backwards, peeing down his britches leg, but at least when they honk abs wave, I know which way the highway is, and to get back to the house I need to turn and walk walk the other way..

I find that it really helps me if I take pictures when I am disassembling something so I can remember how it goes back together, but that does not help on small things because I don't see well enough to work on them anyway.

Jennifer you know I love y’all’s ramblings. It is nice to have other people chime in.