Wow!

Wow, indeed!

Care to share any thoughts on this, Kim? Is it good for the industry? I hope they keep and expand Weeks’ hybridizing program , they have some great new varieties!

I guess whatever keeps storied names "alive", should be good for the "industry", @BenT (NorCal 9B Sunset 14). The alternative would be that it disappears as so many have over the decades. It's just sad it all came to this, but it's probably to have been expected. Like so many others in this country, the "rose industry" has been dying for decades. I hope this helps it limp along a while longer, at least until we're all gone.

You really think the rose industry is dying? I feel there has been a marked increase the past few years. Personally I’m not a fan of the florist roses or the companies that are selling them but they have pulled a lot of new people in.

@oursteelers 8B PNW from Google:

Yes, the American domestic rose industry has shrunk significantly over the past twenty years, largely due to intense competition from imported flowers. The U.S. market has shifted dramatically from domestic production to a heavily import-based supply chain. Key indicators of this decline include:

• Decreased Sales Value: The wholesale value of U.S. rose sales plummeted from over $58.8 million in 2002 to just over $13 million by 2019.
• Fewer Growers: The number of domestic rose growers has drastically decreased. For example, the number of flower growers producing specific types of roses dropped from 228 in 1986 to only 15 by 2015.
• Reduced Production Volume: The volume of domestically grown roses has fallen sharply. One report noted that rose growing in the U.S. declined by 95%, from 545 million roses to less than 30 million.
• Dominance of Imports: As of a 2024 study, approximately 97% of flowers utilized in the United States were imported. This shift began in earnest after the Andean Trade Preference Act of 1991 removed tariffs on agricultural products from countries like Colombia and Ecuador, giving them a significant cost advantage due to lower labor costs and favorable climates.

In response to the decline of traditional cut rose production, some American growers have adapted by shifting their focus to specialty cut flowers that do not ship well and appeal to the growing "Slow Flowers" movement and demand for locally sourced products.

Value of US rose sales from 2002 to 2019 (in 1,000 U.S. dollars at wholesale) This statistic shows the sales value of roses in the United States from 2002 to 2019. In 2002, the rose market saw a total sales value of more than 58.8 million U.S. dollars, while in 2003 sales fell to almost 47 million U.S. dollars. By 2019 that number has dropped to just over 13 million U.S. dollars. These figures are all based on wholesale prices. https://www.statista.com/statistics/257776/value-of-us-rose-sales-since-2002/

The original J&P went bankrupt a few years ago and the left overs were purchased by an investment group led by Donald and Glenda Hachenberger purchased the assets of the bankrupt Jackson & Perkins in 2007. The purchase was made from Harry & David Holdings for $49 million. The Hachenbergers' company, Jackson & Perkins Park Acquisitions, is a subsidiary of Western Capital Resources, which also owns Park Seed and Wayside Gardens.

• Initial purchase: In 2007, an investment group led by Donald and Glenda Hachenberger bought most of Jackson & Perkins' assets from Harry & David Holdings for $49 million.
• Bankruptcy sale: Following later financial troubles, Jackson & Perkins went through a bankruptcy auction in 2010.
• Current structure: Jackson & Perkins is now a division of Jackson & Perkins Park Acquisitions, which is a subsidiary of publicly traded Western Capital Resources. This company also manages Park Seed and Wayside Gardens

The J&P bankruptcy brought down the original Week's Roses. Gardens Alive! purchased the original bankrupt Weeks Roses in 2011. However, in October 2025, NeuHouse Farms acquired Weeks Roses from Gardens Alive!.

• 2011 Bankruptcy Acquisition: Gardens Alive!, an Indiana-based company, acquired the assets of Weeks Roses out of bankruptcy.
• 2025 Acquisition: NeuHouse Farms, a California-based fifth-generation family farm, acquired Weeks Roses from Gardens Alive!.

It's definitely not a "growth" industry.

Any "hobby" that depended upon a vibrant "middle class" has suffered the same shrinkage. There simply aren't as many people with the leisure time, available outdoor space and disposable income required to engage in the hobby. The same shrinkage has occurred in "garden centers", nurseries, etc. and for the same reasons.

People can't afford houses with gardens in many places.

@roseseek

Thinking about the largest rose farm in CA, and source bare roots for GRF, I looked at NeuHouse Farms last month…. the grower of Star Roses, Certified Roses, DAs, , and added Weeks roses, which the farm fuelds are above Los Angeles in fertile field areas, Wasco, CA, San Joquin Valley, I had read Weeks was being acquired, too. Refer to GRF feedback thread for more info. I had posted. .

Pretty big farm!

I wonder how Christian Bedard is faring during all this turmoil?

Moses.

Where I garden, roses on Dr. Huey rootstock are not a long term thing. I could take you on several roads and point out the Dr. Huey roses that survive where twelve roses were planted, grafted on rootstock. Only the rootstock survives.

I don't see ownroot roses doing all that well in those growing fields and the roses on multiflora rootstock that are no longer coming from Canada are missed, big time.

Once upon a time a book seller used to list Rose books at reduced prices. Monthly there used to be at least 28 books (I counted them), then the numbers declined and the most recent catalog several years ago, there were two. Interest faltered.

Does anyone still have full membership in the American Rose Society?

I've never had a rose die on Dr Huey rootstock, and some are over 21 years old. Same with multiflora. Both do fine. Diane

I let my membership go, Ann, since there was so much focus on Hybrid Teas and rose shows.

Pat Shanley put out a lovely issue with historic and OGRs but after they circled back to rose shows.

@stillanntn6b no ma'am, I let my ARS membership go nearly thirty years ago. I had no need to pay for "membership" in the advertising arm of Ortho Chemical and J&P.

I have seen the decline happening like a slow motion death. It's frightening at how a loved one can just dwindle away and no one calls 911 because it's such a slow process it never seems like an emergency!

@Diane Brakefield, Diane, your conditions are so far outside the norm for most of us, that you might as well exist in another dimension. I envy both you and your roses, but your garden is NOT a good reference for us here in East TN. Your garden makes me feel like a very inept gardener, lol.

My experience is the same as Ann's (we live about 75 miles from each other). Own root or grafted on multiflora is the only way to go here for long term success. Even fortuniana rootstock struggles here, both with our winters, and our clay soil. Dr. Huey WILL take over the graft in our conditions, no matter how diligent you are about removing suckers. It may take 10 years, but it will happen. The only hope is that the scion goes own root BEFORE the dreaded Doctor kills it.

So I will admire and envy your roses, but continue to plant tiny own root roses that I have to baby for three years, lol.

I think rose prices are undermining the popularity of roses - more affordable options would likely encourage gardeners to try roses. Today most are prioritizing native and low-maintenance plants, they're not interested in something with a reputation of being fussy - especially since buying a few is a big investment these days

Doc Huey isnt the best roostock for N.Florida. We dont have the nematodes etc that central and south FL do and our soil has a significant amount of clay. I belive its the humidity that gets Doc Huey rootstock. Fortuniana does much better here. I don't get the prolonged freezing temps here though. I read that multiflora is listed as invasive in N FL. I'm guessing that's why I never see any roses grafted on Multiflora available locally. Own root is probably best in my area, I'm learning, if Fortuniana isn't available.

I agree about rose prices being high by some sellers. Some are utterly ridiculous especially when they are charging 2 or 3x as much for the same common worn out hybrid tea that all the big box stores are selling.

In the 12 or so years I've had Dr Huey roses I've never had any suckers. The only issue I've noticed is they tend to get chlorosis. But my winters aren't terrible, and we don't have root knot nematodes here.

I've got very alkaline heavy clay soil that gets amended in the top 4 - 5 inches, and drought has been an issue in this state the past few years. I've noticed the Dr Huey grafted roses handle the dry spells better than multiflora. My palatine roses tend to sulk a bit if I neglect them, but Dr Huey just keeps chugging along. It's funny how different roses do in different areas

That your soil is alkaline is the reason Dr. Huey thrives. Years ago I bought a European book on rose root stocks and it specified the pH that Dr. Huey needs. Not neutral, but several tenths into the alkaline range.

I'm far enough north that I grew a plant of Fortuniana at the base of a walnut tree (Juglans didn't bother it). It grew twenty feet tall and one cane snagged a RRv carrying mite. Thus it died, not from the cold but from that virus. I tried growing roses grafted on Fortuniana and what killed them was that they didn't stop growing in winter: they kept on pushing growth from the rootstock which had NO inclination to go dormant or even slow down very much.

I've got alkaline soil, too. It's a desert here, for petesake. Fig, you insulted an 80 year old person. Diane

Hmm well that makes sense about Doc Huey not thriving here- because our soil is on the acidic side. I'm wondering if I add some barn lime (which is alkaline) to my soil where I have Doc Huey planted, if it will help out.

Wow, super interesting - good to know about Dr Huey

I’ve heard Neuhouse farms is a multi-generation grower of roses that puts out a well respected product, so good that Weeks was acquired by them, and not some faceless holding company. I worry about the great hybridization program at Weeks and if/how it will continue. Agree with Kim, some sort of further consolidation was just unavoidable.

As for Dr Huey, I grow about 50 plants on that rootstock in a pH of 6.0, and they’re all fat and happy. The multiflora , fortuniana and own-roots are pretty much all thriving too. I don’t mean to contradict anyone’s research, but just adding my own data point.

I think Fig was complimenting you, Diane. You have great skills and a great climate. The East having so much BS is a challenge.

Diane, you took it 180 degrees from how I intended it. Also, you'll notice ALKALINE to neutral conditions are where Huey thrives. Soils here are acidic, as in very. I won't be addressing it any further. Nor you, either.

ANNND I'm nearly 70.

Ben's comment about Dr. Huey doing well in his 6.0 soil sort of mirrors (on the flip side) my experience with multiflora doing well for me in our very alkaline soils. As a chemistry teacher, I've often tested our tap water between 8.0-8.5. But multiflora (known for preferring acidic soil) does well for me here. I'm not disputing the known Huey/alkaline and multiflora/acid preference at all, but I wonder if there is something more going on in terms of types of soil, humidity, or other factors.

I know this might be a little OT but I was thinking(lol): One rose that does great for me here is Pink Clouds! It is a single pink minature climber It is just great here and I've read somewhere that some people were using it for root stock at some point. I just looked it up on hmf to refresh my memory and it is listed as a cross of Oakington Ruby x Rosa multiflora Thunb l. Well now that makes perfect sense to me that it would be multiflora cross if multiflora is listed as invasive here -so it must do well here lol. My Pink Couds is pretty BS resistant as well. Says zone 6b-9b (by default).

Some of my fortuniana do sucker quite a bit under the graft. I have two Abe Darbys that do that a lot. I'm always ripping off those suckers and they are back a few mos later. I have few others grafted to fort but those dont do it. Its odd. Anyhoo, Pink Clouds doesn't seem to sucker at all I think I've had it maybe 8 yrs, but then again, it isnt grafted to anything. Does anyone know if Pink Clouds suckers ?

Rose prices nowadays are crazy expensive! I still have the old Pickering catalogs when rose prices were $9. What's with all the price hikes on roses? I purchase most of mine locally. There's a great mom and pop nursery in Niles, Illinois (Meinke) with over 200-300 roses. Prices are range at $25 for hybrid teas, shrubs and climbers. David Austins are higher at $35.

@sultry_jasmine_nights (Florida-9a-ish) Pink Clouds would only sucker if improperly cultivated. Shallow watering; "cultivating" the soil to create a "dust mulch" to break feeder roots, stimulating them into growth; slicing through roots to dig holes for "companion planting", etc. would potentially cause suckering as it easily does for many other roses. Other than those, I've never encountered Pink Clouds suckering. And, yes, it's often used for a root stock. Burling Leong used it for decades at Sequoia Nursery. Every mini standard they pumped out for nearly half a century (the rose was introduced in 1957, they closed in 2007) was on Pink Clouds and all the standards she produced of larger roses were, also. Her pdf on Chip Budding promoted Pink Clouds as it possesses two extremely beneficial traits: significantly thicker cambium which makes budding MUCH easier, requiring MUCH less skill and practice to succeed; and it remains in suitable condition for budding over a MUCH longer period than most others. Huey and Fortuniana demand heat to root and push buds. Pink Clouds roots and pushes buds at significantly lower temperatures. When I lived in the hotter Los Angeles area, I could root and bud on all of the stocks. I'd collected every stock available as virus indexed and played with them all. Now we've retired to the chilly, damp Central Coast, I can't root Huey nor Fortuniana as it doesn't get hot enough for them to push roots. When I've obtained rooted pieces of them from outside the area and budded to them, the buds refuse to push. Pink Clouds, IXL and De la Grifferaie all root and push buds here in the "coolth" and damp. All three are multiflora based. I don't have alkalinity issues as the soil is pure sand and it's seismically engineered, physically compacted to nearly sand stone so it doesn't move in earthquakes. It also has no airspace between the soil particles so there is no oxygen and no drainage so everything I grow has to be potted and placed on plastic sheeting to prevent invasion from the liquid amber and grass roots occupying the 3" of 'top soil' spread over the sand stone. It's inconvenient but safer and it completely eliminates the gopher issues prevalent in all the older neighborhoods built prior to the seismic standards.

@bellarosa the rose price hikes follow all the other price hikes. I recently encountered $5, 4" ANNUALS at our local Home Despot. I NEVER paid more than .49 each for 4" annuals. The local "nursery" doesn't carry them. Lowe's is no better. In the past ten years since we bought our home, per all the real estate sites, it's now doubled in "value". The potting soil I bought on sale for $10 a 2 cu ft bag after moving here now sells for $18.97 for a slightly smaller bag, same brand, same formula. Of course, the charlatans pushing $110+ roses on line for unproven varieties definitely don't help. It's all what the market will bear and MINE quit baring those prices years ago.

We had many $4-$6 annuals and some $7 ones here this year, absolutely blew my mind

Roseseek, I agree - these price hikes in everything not just roses is crazy! As for $5 annuals at Home Depot, that's a steal! I've seen them marked way more than that at our local HD. Most annuals are SO unbelieveably easy to grow like zinnias, cosmos, geraniums and petunias. You don't need any fancy set up to grow these. The markup on roses is what really grates me as a gardener! $110 for a rose - what the heck! Shame on these vendors who sell the roses to consumers at these outrageous prices. I'll continue to shop at our local mom and pop nurseries as they support our local communities and offer a great selection of roses at fair and decent prices.

@bellarosa it seems to be coming full circle. Roses and gardening in general were the past time of the "landed gentry" in Victorian to Edwardian times. The ARS was initially a florist's society. It didn't really open up to "amateurs" until after the first World War with returning GI's. WWII opened it further as it led to the rise of the Middle Class who could actually afford to own large suburban lots and have the "spare time" and disposable income to actually purchase plants and gardening supplies. The Middle Class has had a huge target on its back for some years and fewer can afford a piece of land to plant anything on. These prices require some pretty deep pockets. I'm actually surprised how many there appear to be who CAN afford these prices and even more flabbergasted how many who complain on line about the poor service and plant quality of the hugely overpriced plants they begged the charlatans to allow them to throw at them for them. Traditional sources are going bankrupt while those who "specialize in diseases of the rich" seem to rake it in.

@roseseek, I don’t really agree with this. A few overpriced boutique sellers don’t mean gardening has become a “rich-only” hobby. Most gardeners are still middle class and buy from normal nurseries that aren’t going bankrupt at all — many are actually thriving.

People who paid premium prices have every right to complain when the product or service is bad; that doesn’t make them “beggars” or the sellers “specialists in diseases of the rich.” It just means the company overpromised and underdelivered.

Luxury rose brands are a tiny niche. Their existence doesn’t reflect the state of the entire gardening world.

Paul! Good to "see" you.

I tried several times to bud onto Pink Clouds this year, but was unsuccessful. I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong, but am hoping next year goes better. It is a very healthy rose, but very vigorous and quite large. It does root easier than Dr Huey does (for me)

OK, it's time for me to make noise. To stay on the main subject, I think NeuHouse Farms acquisition of Weeks roses will probably help the Dr Huey, bare root rose industry. I hope I'm right but only time will tell.

Now to address a few things that have popped up on this thread. The ARS. I'm willing to bet that 99% of the folks on this form could care less if someone is a member of the ARS or not. This form is not intended to be a gossip center. It is here to help, give advice, talk about, show pictures of and enjoy our rose hobby.

Root stock. One of my favorite subjects. When push comes to shove, "the secret is in the soil". You can't grow roses on cement. I started growing roses in the early 1970's, after I got back from Vietnam, in S.E. Florida. I really didn't want to be a total couch potato. I learned all about Fortuniana root stock. I grew my roses for 10 years not knowing what I was really doing and had some decent roses. By the mid 1980's I had moved to Central Florida and found several folks that also grew roses. I remember the first time I went to Harold & Jean Backer's garden; I was floored. Huge bushes covered in fantastic foliage with tons of beautiful blooms. I had to learn how they did this. I learned and took my garden to what I call the next level. I also learned you can grow Dr, Huey root stock roses in Florida. Simple solution. Grow them in 25 gal. nursery pots with good soil. Problem solved for roses I couldn't get on Fortuniana root stock. Then in 2008, I retired from my full time job as a drywall man (frame, hang, finish and texture. Yes, I was not big time rich by any means) and moved to N.E. Georgia. Right at the foot of the Smokie Mountains. Welcome to brick hard red clay. Very few things actually grow in this stuff. I learned from seasoned rose growers in the area that to grow good roses, you had to get rid of 80% of the clay in your growing howl and replace it with good, organic soil. It was a little (?) bit of work, but I got my garden laid out the way I wanted. When I move to Georgia, I brought 4 Fortuniana grafted roses with me in 15 gal nursery pots. "You can't grow Fortuniana grafted roses in a cold winter climate!" WRONG!! I planted them where I wanted them and they still thrive today. About 1/3 of my garden of 116 bush of all types is Fortuniana grown roses. I have NEVER lost a Fortuniana root stock to winter cold. A few bushes to tender to my winters, yes, but not the root stock itself. Dr. Huey does OK for me, but I have learned it can be a little winter tender if not winter protected. During the past 10 years I have learned about multiflora root stock. It preforms very well in my climate. I get all my multiflora root stock roses from Wisconsin Roses. Good roses at a good price. They also do custom budding.

I can't stress enough, "the secret to growing good roses is in the soil they are planted in". I have shown picture of my garden and bushes on this form quite often. I let them do the talking. Now it is time for this old man to shut down for the nigh.

Ken, the only thing I'd disagree with you about is that here, fortuniana grafted roses are not fully hardy, and not at all much farther north. It's actually not the potential hardiness of the fortuniana itself. Yes, fortuniana is rated to Z7a, which does indeed have cold winters.

As an aside, most anywhere in GA, except possibly at the highest elevations, averages winter lows of 5 to 10 degrees warmer (or much warmer, south of Atlanta) than here.

Fort grafted roses might survive a few years here (I've tried, multiple times), but that one early cold snap, or a colder, wetter winter comes and that's it. It's not that fortuniana isn't potentially hardy here. Average minimum temps would suggest it SHOULD be. But as Ann stated earlier, it's not even that fortuniana can't take the cold. Here, where the temp swings are notorious (in the last three weeks we've hit 82F and 24F), fort pushes new growth on the scion MUCH too late in Fall, the roses never go truly dormant, and here comes Old Man Winter while the roses are wearing Bermuda shorts.

I've had the scions of several roses grafted on fort killed in full growth in early winter. On a couple, the fort rootstock sprouted the next year. But eventually like Ann's, they too succumbed.

I've actually heard of gardeners farther north, but with different conditions, having success with fort grafted roses. But I think it's because they have drier autumns, and slower transitions into cold weather which then stays consistently cold, even though they might ultimately get colder than here. Those conditions are ideal for forcing dormancy.

P.S. Dr Huey is rated a full zone hardier than fortuniana, and I definitely have never had a dear Dr die from cold here. I wish!

@Elestrial 7a the most common issues are slicing through the cambium into the pith; leaving pith on the back of the scion (bud); allowing the bud to dry out while budding and allowing the stock to suffer water stress while the scion is knitting to it. If you're using chip budding, you honestly don't have to slice that deeply into the stock. You can literally scrape the bark off to expose the juicier appearing, bright green cambium. As long as there is cambium exposed on the reverse of the scion so there is cambium to cambium contact, it should work. Feel free to take a look at the photos on my blog post to see if they help. https://pushingtheroseenvelope.blogspot.com/2014/11/chip-budding.html

@roseseek Thank you! Maybe I'm slicing too deep into the stock? Or a combination of issues, sigh. I'm really not sure. I'll try again in the spring, fingers crossed. Would it be okay to email you pictures when I try again to see where I'm going wrong?

@Elestrial 7a you're welcome! Yes ma'am, that's fine! Most likely, it was not having cambium to cambium contact. Once you succeed, you may surprise yourself how shallow your cuts can be.

@Elestrial 7a To confirm what Kim said: when you take the scion chip off the bud variety, make sure that if there is a sliver of pith wood in the chip, pluck it out before applying the bud to the understock. This will improve your odds of a successful take significantly.

Thank you both!

Absolutely! Then, once you feel proficient, you can begin to PLAY. Did you know you can literally bisect a bud and successfully bud TWO plants from one bud? Using a new disposable single edge razor blade, I accidentally sliced too high and took off the top half of a bud. Not the upper edge of the shield, but the newer developing tip of the growth bud itself. I figured "why not?" (I have done that a LOT!) so I inserted it as I would the entire bud. Then, I went back to the remnants of that bud and removed it as I had intended and inserted that one, too. BOTH developed into plants that were indistinguishable from each other. So, not only is cambium tissue like "stem cells" (it develops into whatever is needed by the plant depending upon what it encounters) but buds can function as a liver does. They can be bisected and both pieces develop into what they are intended to be. Personally, I find that pretty remarkable!

Wow, pretty cool!