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Help! Countertop/apron sink. Templater came and I have questions.

last month
last modified: last month

White Quartz, quarter round (top only) edge profile, 1" radius outer corners.

I am getting 3 cm. Caesarstone white quartz countertops through Lowes. We went with Lowes because it was the only affordable way to get 3 cm. Otherwise, I could afford only 2 cm. (plus plywood layer) from local fabricators. I am in Los Angeles, prices are very high.I would like 1" radius (curvey) outside corners due to corridor widths. Local 2cm vendor says he can only do 1/4" outside radii with his mitered corners. More detailed questions in my post in the discussion.

The Lowes chosen Fabricator/ Installer had a Templater come. He measured with measuring tape; he used a digital level. No digital measuring done and no cutting templates. He did not take the sink. They sent me a diagram with measurements Here are my 3 issues, in order of concern.

MEASUREMENT ERROR? See pink line on drawing below. The measurement from the back of the sink to the back of the peninsula will determine where the slab lands at the back of the sink for my desired positive reveal. His measurement seems to me to be 3/16 inch off and result in the slab covering the sink lip. I assume I should get them back to remeasure again, but I don’t want the same guy, because he made what I assume is an error (but I am not the professional). Not sure how to handle this.

The SEAM: On my photo, the seam between 2 slabs will be where I put the blue tape and the Peninsula slab will be to the right of that. It will be “dog-eared” like in the photo and the inner corner (sink cab to wall cab) will be 90 degrees. Is this a case where a 90 degree corner is okay? The seam strikes me as okay in that placemnt, but is there any other place, visually or structurally better for a seam? Their choices seem good to me.

The SINK LEVELS: I want a 1/4 inch positive reveal. I just RE-ASSESED and EDITED: The sink is fairly level; The RT sides (both front and back) have a fat 1/16" inch gap between the sink and the cabinet carcass tops. The LEFT of the sink is lower, both back and front are a bit under 1/16" below cabinet carcass spine (space would be between the sink lip and the slab). The cabinet-maker said it's fine slightly off, and the templating guy said that is okay, but is it okay? Will the silicone even out the differences? Also, the sink manufacturer says sink (SINKOLOGY) should be 1/8" below the top of the cabinets, but fabricator said to have it level. I'm a bit OCD, so I want to follow the professionals, but my being exacting has saved the project a few times prior to errors, so I persist.



PROPOSED SEAM mocked up by me:


MY DRAWING BELOW: GREEN LINE IS THE PROPOSED SEAM - PINK LINE is not a seam; it represents the measurement the templater made that I think is incorrect.


THE DIAGRAM the Templater made . and Installer sent to me.




SINK BELOW - The white tape is PVC edgebanding that is added to bring those carcass "spines" about 3/32" above the sink edges, and now those "spines" are level with the adjacent cabinet box spines.


Comments (13)

  • last month

    If this goes sideways for you, I have 2 very good fabricators I can recommend in LA. All my countertops in LA were 2 cm with a laminated edge and they looked good and functioned well, in a house I remodeled completely over 10 years.

    Jeanette Mieko thanked chispa
  • last month
    last modified: last month

    Chispa, who do you recommend?

  • last month

    Chispa, did you have 2 cm of slab at the sink? What is the finished thickness of your laminated edges? Thank you.

  • last month
    last modified: last month

    @Jeanette Mieko, turn on messaging in your profile and I will send you their names.

    We sold that house and moved out of state, so I don't remember exact finished thickness, but I think it was just doubling up the 2 cm. Edge is laminated or built-up and not mitered.

    Yes, just 2 cm at the sink.

    This was a Spanish style house, so the slightly rounded edge made sense. Slight pencil/eased edge at the sink.

    Photo showing details.


  • last month

    That looks nice. I turned on messaging. Thank you.

  • last month
    last modified: last month

    So, taking a moment to consider the 2 cm + plywood option with the local vendor:

    I just read this on Reddit (so who knows ?)...

    "2 cm stone fully bonded to a continuous plywood subtop with a laminated 4cm (1-1/2") edge is usually the more sturdy and forgiving system compared to 3 cm granite set directly on cabinet perimeter rails."

    *Not sure the same applies for quartz (synthetic), but can anyone comment on that qoute?

    *Is laminated better than Mitered? I read that it can add strength since it doesn't take 45 degrees off the top?

    *This OTHER vendor/ fabricator (not Lowes) who does 2cm and plywood says he CANNOT do a 1 inch radius outside MITERED corners which I would like. He said only 1/4" radius. Is this true of all mitered corners - no outer corner radius bigger than 1/4"? Is it different for laminated?

    edit...I just read from older post and Joseph Corlett wrote: "It is the edge profile, not the construction, that contributes to chipping." I want a quarter round(top only) edge profile.

  • last month

    Having used the same material (Taj Mahal quartzite) for two kitchens, one with 2 cm slabs on plywood with laminated edge and one with 3 cm slabs set directly on cabinets, I can say that there is no difference to the homeowner.

    The truth is, if I wasn't into design and hadn't designed my kitchens/bathrooms for a remodel and a new build, I wouldn't have noticed the difference between the 2 cm or 3 cm installations.

    Ask the average person who bought an existing house if they have 2 cm or 3 cm counters, or if they have a plywood base. Most will have no clue what you are asking!


    A sharp pointy edge profile will chip more easily compared to a more rounded profile ... doesn't matter if it is mitered or laminated.

    Jeanette Mieko thanked chispa
  • last month

    Sent you a message with the two names!

    I wished I had either of those guys to work on my FL house! Luckily I kept things very simple in the new house, because the guy I used in FL was not at the same level of craftsmanship.


    First guy - made a curved and arched trim piece out of flat 2 cm quartz to frame the shower door.



    Second guy - made a 3 dimensional fireplace surround out of flat 2 cm limestone.


    Jeanette Mieko thanked chispa
  • PRO
    last month

    ""2 cm stone fully bonded to a continuous plywood subtop with a laminated 4cm (1-1/2") edge is usually the more sturdy and forgiving system compared to 3 cm granite set directly on cabinet perimeter rails."

    *Not sure the same applies for quartz (synthetic), but can anyone comment on that qoute?"


    The person who wrote that quote doesn't know what they're talking about. Plywood under stone is a spacer only; it has little structural strength. And full bonding is a particularly bad idea considering how differently the materials move. I can't imagine a better way to pull a seam apart than by two pieces of shrinking plywood pulling against each other.


    You have to accommodate the movement of dissimilar movement in materials; it cannot be fought. Set your tops on dime-sized dabs of silicone spaced every 18" or so, no matter the thickness or the substrate.

  • PRO
    last month

    Jeanette:


    Get your concerns acknowledged in writing, then trust your crew. That sink can be pulled a little each way to get the reveals perfect.

  • last month
    last modified: last month

    Thank you so much, Joseph Corlett, for both comments. I appreciate your words to trust the crew, I think this is the right advice. It is Lowes, but I've been pleased that this fabricator, so far, has been open to discuss things in precise terms.

    If you have a few minutes, I have a query below. Or, just skip to the bottom gratitude comment.

    Can you tell me how much sink lip is required for the countertop slab to rest on? I want to ask for 3/8" instead of 1/4" reveal and the sink ledge (flange) is only 3/4" wide on top. I will, of course, ask the fabricator. My sink is irregular and I thought I would widen the reveal to allow for the reveal to not narrow too much.

    I feel reassured about pulling the sink a little left and right. As for front and back, there is a drawer that pulls out in front of the sink that does not allow much play to pull the sink forward, it clears the sink by less than 1/4 inch. I will write an email to the installer about this limitation and any other concerns.

    Gratitude...

    Your level of expertise and willingness to share it with the Houzz public is inspiring. I've read many of your comments, and anecdotes, and been educated often, amused at other times and prompted to be more vigilant or more relaxed, depending on the concern. Viewing your installs, is seeing art and practicality combined. Btw, I love these SS sinks you show with the back faucet plate built in.

  • PRO
    last month

    Jeanette:

    As long as you have 3/8" or so between the sink top and the stone bottom, your reveal will be fine.

    Jeanette Mieko thanked Joseph Corlett, LLC
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