Thanks!

Nice tree!

Been through the northern part of Marinette County, WI many, many times back in the day.

Beautiful country!

Super

maackia, yes, I have both Peattie's books on east and west NA trees. A great storyteller in addition to his botanical knowledge, tho it's alright to disagree w/some of his opinions, just like I disagree w/some of his and Dirr's opinions.

Quercus Ellipsoidalis:

Brilliant Fall Colors!

:-)

BillMN's photo above reminded me of an article I read a while back in which the author suggests that Northern Pin and Scarlet Oaks should actually be considered s single species. "The statistical, herbarium, and ecological observation from this study question the legitimacy of Quercus ellipsoidalis as a valid species. Quercus ellipsoidalis and Quercus coccinea are considered as infraspecific taxa with loosely based regional varieties comprising a complex. [of] four regional ecotypes".

The article is pretty technical, but interesting (at least for querciphiles). See this page for a link to the pdf: "A Review of the Taxonomic Status of Quercus ellipsoidalis and Quercus coccinea" (from the International Oak Journal, Spring 2009)

I've seen the Michigan champion Scarlet Oak, and IMO it appeared to be more like the Northern Pin Oaks I see growing wild in this area, rather than the Scarlet Oaks that are occasionally planted here (most of which likely originated from southern seed sources).

That comment of Dave's reminds me. The wild woods I used to live in had 2 curiously similar red oak varieties. One was like the one in my above picture, that would hold it leaves all winter.

The other one would drop it leaves soon after they turned color for the season.

There may have been other differences, like a more silvery branch bark but I didn't know enough at the time to make an educated identification. I just know they were somehow different.

ps: probably Quercus rubra?

What the rub against northern pin oak? Seem like exceedingly fine trees to me

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder as they say, but usually it's 'I can grow much better trees than that, where I live', haha! I hate to put words in another's mouth but Right david? Make room for the (more) magnificent! lol

I think they're all exceedingly fine but there are limits to what I can grow here, I do have a red maple and a northern hackberry, and words can never hurt me. lol

I like ”junk” trees too. Like box elder ha ha

There are many levels of trash. ;-)

I grew up with red maples, catalpas, bxeldr but in a higher zone.

Even there box elder didn't grow well. Always half rotten and full of bugs.

They grow even worse where I am now. So those are off the table forever. :)

I've learned the hard way red maples don't like the droughty soil and dry climate here. I've removed 3 or 4 of my original plantings (circa 2015) and have one left, for now.

So not that I like 'junk trees' I'm just too far north to plant the better z5 trees.

I have however, been a bit more studious when buying plants now and have done much more research on growing requirments, before buying, than I did in those early years.

I think I've found some good candadates.

I'll be reporting on many of those later in the season.

:)

How would you describe a ”junk tree?”

That's a good question maackia, I'm sure the answers vary depending on where you live and what trees are able to be grown there.

In my neck of the woods it's the short lived, fast growing, soft wooded trees that will grow here but aren't really a good, long lasting landscape tree. Populus balsamea, lombardi poplar, acer negundo to name a few.

But to me it all depends on what kind of choices you have and which are better for your purposes than others. Some include messiness, smell and other factors.

Here's an article that may or may not be debatable.

:-)

I think trees that are weak wooded and fall apart are described as junk trees

I'd have to agree w/others that boxelder is indeed a "junk" tree, at least in areas I've been. Alot of branch breakage, dead branches, and even healthy trees have inner leaves turning pale yellow as early as late July, making them look unhealthy. Still, there's a couple mature, open-grown ones on my usual PA trek that have a very rugged charm -- I wouldn't cut them down. In fact, here's a street view of 2 of them -- the property has several more the same size behind this view.

Hi Ben – happy spring - thanks for the photos. My next-door neighbors have a pin oak allee lining their driveway – about 24 total. They drop dead branches (some widow-maker size) all the time – and the leaves, don’t get me started!

I took these photos Jan 12, 2026 when the trees were being maintenance pruned. At the time, they were dropping many dangerous dead branches. It’s hard to imagine the number of leaves they drop annually over a considerably long time – and the leaves mostly wind up on my property. It’s also a real treat in a mast year – acorns ankle deep - but the squirrels don’t mind. In the second photo you can see a white pine that’s on my property with the oaks behind. The white pine benefits (a charm?) from an oak windbreak on one side - so I guess I can’t complain!

Jan 12, 2026

Mar 28, 2026

Maybe it's just me but I think that trees, no matter what kind, need to be placed in locations that correctly holds and displays them.

I wouldn't have a massive pin oak for a street tree or planted in the front yard.

But even that could work if one had a massively large estate with 2+ acres of front yard and/or an acre of forecourt with roundabout that needs a centerpiece (edit: and I'd just have the servants clean up the acorns, so nbd). 😂

Mine out by the ROW at the south end of the yard will be no problem, even many years from now.

As far as trees go, I don’t see anything wrong with pin oaks other than they look spooky as hell in the winter. There is some natural variability in some where the leaves are much wider and less ”stiff” looking. But those look just as scary in the winter. Some people might think tulip populars are junk trees but I love their soft texture and spring flowers. Two junk trees in my opinion are chinese elms and bradford pears. Both make me cringe. lol

" Two junk trees in my opinion are chinese elms and bradford pears. Both make me cringe. lol "

Bradford pears for sure, but I'm a little too far north for them to grow.

The bad one up here is Ulmus Pumila, Siberian elm, unbelievable how many seeds it produces, and they all germinate and grow in every crack in street or sidewalk.

It's often confused with Ulmus parvifolia, the true Chinese elm that has mottled bark.

Of course, even those are considered invasive in many parts of the country.